PZ99
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- Joined
- 13 May 2015
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Oh I know precisely what you're saying - I just don't believe you that's all. Your assertion is both unfair and unjust. But that's your right. And you're wrongWhy would I need to! I have no intention of misrepresenting you and am simply objecting to your repetitious misrepresentations of myself!
If you genuinely cannot recognise what I am saying here, then I suggest that you read my posts again - carefully! And whilst doing so, note just how many of your responses contained presumptions about the existence of viewpoints that I had neither opined nor expressed.
That is an obvious misrepresentation right there. It is not an offence to state ones' values and never will be unless you bring in a Kommunist Govt in the UK. So feel free to blow us all over as to how that is anything other than a conspiracy theory.How is any citizen to be expected to maintain such status, when speaking one's values has become an indictable offence?
Is the Public order act, 1986 (and associated legislation), a conspiracy theory? Or does it truly exist?Oh I know precisely what you're saying - I just don't believe you that's all. Your assertion is both unfair and unjust. But that's your right. And you're wrong
But OK... let's start with this one...
That is an obvious misrepresentation right there. It is not an offence to state ones' values and never will be unless you bring in a Kommunist Govt in the UK. So feel free to blow us all over as to how that is anything other than a conspiracy theory.
It exists and has recently been amended.Is the Public order act, 1986 (and associated legislation), a conspiracy theory? Or does it truly exist?
Any expressed value, that is not commonly shared by all people, has the potential to cause offense to those whom happen to hold dearly to a conflicting value.It exists and has recently been amended.
What part of the act are you citing when speaking values?
OK so has Tommy ever been convicted for offences under any part of this act?Any expressed value, that is not commonly shared by all people, has the potential to cause offense to those whom happen to hold dearly to a conflicting value.
Edit: altering wording of last sentence:
I understand there to exist several parts of the act, making aforesaid eventualities an offense.
To the best of my knowledge, no! But I could be mistaken! (According to the appeal findings, the judge that last convicted him, certainly was - mistaken!)OK so has Tommy ever been convicted for offences under any part of this act?
Well that's a theory, or at best an opinion. But there's definitely no evidence he was arrested just for expressing his views. As previously mentioned, his tales of woe about prison treatment are in conflict with the prison staff. Take your pick as to who is telling the truth there but Tommy's record as a convicted fraud doesn't exactly help his credibility. His supporters don't add any weight either. I don't believe him at all - especially that solitary confinement stuff.To the best of my knowledge, no! But I could be mistaken! (According to the appeal findings, the judge that last convicted him, certainly was - mistaken!)
Anyhow,this doesn't detract from what I was saying (about the expression of one's values, having become an indictable offence).
My use of wording may seem liberal to some, but examination of the contents of that act, coupled with consideration of how that may play in a multicultural society, makes the truth of my statement more than apparent.
Ahem. 25th May 2018!! Did you perchance notice anything irregular happening on that day?Well that's a theory, or at best an opinion. But there's definitely no evidence he was arrested just for expressing his views. As previously mentioned, his tales of woe about prison treatment are in conflict with the prison staff. Take your pick as to who is telling the truth there but Tommy's record as a convicted fraud doesn't exactly help his credibility. His supporters don't add any weight either. I don't believe him at all - especially that solitary confinement stuff.
So I don't think he was ever arrested or jailed because he expressed his views.
And there's nothing about breaches of that particular act.
Yeah, the sun same up in the east and set in the west.Ahem. 25th May 2018!! Did you perchance notice anything irregular happening on that day?
If, if, if ,if. No I don't think they'll be saying anything anytime soon.And if these tales of woe, that you have chosen to disbelieve, are true, would you really expect the prison administrators to be forthcoming about such negligence?
But you don't know - you're just pretending you know. Unless you were there, you know nothing more than anyone else. Your intel comes from the 'net just like mine does. By claiming you know it's rubbish you're merely trying to shove your opinion down my throat. Good luck with that crap. It's a pathetic tactic used by conspiracy theorists all over the world. People reckon they know the twin towers weren't hit by planes. It was a controlled demolition.P.S. I love it when people say "there's no evidence" because then I know that they are talking total rubbish!
Exactly what is it, that you are accusing me of, not knowing, but pretending to know?Yeah, the sun same up in the east and set in the west.
If, if, if ,if. No I don't think they'll be saying anything anytime soon.
Tommy and his supporters will have more explaining to do
But you don't know - you're just pretending you know. Unless you were there, you know nothing more than anyone else. Your intel comes from the 'net just like mine does. By claiming you know it's rubbish you're merely trying to shove your opinion down my throat. Good luck with that crap. It's a pathetic tactic used by conspiracy theorists all over the world. People reckon they know the twin towers weren't hit by planes. It was a controlled demolition.
If that isn't an insult to someone's intelligence then nothing is
That's just a paragraph and a half of white noise derived from dodging my request for proof.(As for my own opinion. I am pretty confident that I am sufficiently qualified to actually know that, and that no pretense is required.)
Absolute statements, such as "there's definitely no evidence" do merit labelling as trash.
There is in truth, evidence for the existence of many (if not all) conflicting and/or contradictory entities. Hence my assertion that absolute claims, about non existence of evidence, are utter trash. This holds true irrespective of the veracity, or lack thereof, of the concept under discussion.
Read your last post > "I love it when people say "there's no evidence" because then I know that they are talking total rubbish!"Exactly what is it, that you are accusing me of, not knowing, but pretending to know?
Have you noticed that it is you who is claiming to know, that I am pretending to know, something that you also claim to know, that I do not know?
How can you possibly know all this? Are you claiming to be clairsentient?
It's not an offense to speak values. Has Boris Johnson ever been jailed for speaking his values?
Free speech is a value we all desire. Breaking the law merely diminishes that value and plays right into the hands of the very SJW you are opposing. It's not very smart and it's why idiots like Tommy Robinson are doing more harm than good.
They need a better player ♠
I'm not surprised - they're probably afraid of getting beaten up by bad Tommy in a demarcation dispute. You've actually brought up three very relevant points so maybe it's time for the far right to mobilise in a constructive way. I reckon get behind Boris Johnson for starters. Or Anne Marie Waters?Number of Government departments protecting British children from islamic grooming gangs for last 10 years or so: 0
Number of police departments protecting British children from islamic grooming gangs for last 10 years or so: 0
Number of mass media outlets reporting on islamic grooming gangs for last 10 years or so: 0
NO one else has put their f$$$$n hand up!
(Nice move, slipping in that cheap insult at the end. I'll just add it to my trophy cabinet, thanks.)
Nah, it's all goodYes it was a cheap shot. My apologies.
Even if one has complete confidence that a particular event did not occur, the conclusion that one " can safely claim there's no evidence" remains unsound.That's just a paragraph and a half of white noise derived from dodging my request for proof.
Read your last post > "I love it when people say "there's no evidence" because then I know that they are talking total rubbish!"
I can say with confidence he hasn't breached the public order act so therefore I can safely claim there's no evidence that he had. Which I did. You are now claiming/pretending to know that it's rubbish. It's a crack up how you're so busy trying to bait me that you're not seeing the double standards in your replies.
Why is the onus upon me? I have yet to see you prove all of your assertions!No evidence has been produced and until it is it remains non existent. If you are offering a challenge to that - the onus is on you to prove your assertions.
"Oh, Steven Steven! Steven Steven Steven Yaxley Lennon!!!", isn't such a melodic refrain.Why is " Tommy Robinson" a fake name? Is the bloke jewish of something?
Even if one has complete confidence that a particular event did not occur, the conclusion that one " can safely claim there's no evidence" remains unsound.
It occurs to me that a person might easily arrive at a similarly erroneous conclusion by neglecting to consider some important distinctions between the meanings of the words "evidence","effect", and"proof".
Consider the enormity of the task of actually demonstrating the "non existence of evidence" for any humanly conceivable event (irrespective of actual occurrence or lack thereof).
Now consider just how little evidence would be required for invalidation of that same assertion!
One meek sliver of evidence, even if it were of the lowliest calibre and issued from a distrusted source, would be all it would take to render totally invalid the "there's no evidence" claim!
It could be just one person's testimony to having witnessed the event! Even if further testimonies, featuring irreconcilable differences were to emerge, all testimonies, no matter how discordant, would still qualify as forms of evidence!!.
What I am trying to highlight here, is that evidence can, and often does exist, independently of the truth of the concept it evidences.
Anyway, do you seriously believe your own conduct in this discourse, to have been so exemplary, as to be beyond reproach?
I seem to recall being asked to prove you wrong, however, I suspect that you are disinterested in such proofs. Anyhow, for reasons of practicability, I seldom acceed to requests for proof, outside of the confines of mathematics.
Perhaps a better understanding of what I definitely am, and definitely am not saying, might have been derived spending just a little more time to openly considering the content, of that which you dismissed, as evasion derived white noise!
Why is the onus upon me? I have yet to see you prove all of your assertions!
As it happens, there is a logical fault in the above "No evidence" assertion, rendering it unsound, and as such, easily challenged.
Please note that the following two statements are not synonymous:
(i) Evidence is presented
(ii) Evidence exists
Now consider the following:
If (i) is true then (ii) must also be true.
If (ii) is false then (i) must also be false.
However, when (i) is false, (ii) may be true, or it may be false.
And when (ii) is true, (i) may be true, or it may be false.
A statement akin to "No evidence exists until evidence is presented", has, by neglecting to consider the full range of logically valid possibilities, incorrectly asserted that:
(ii) cannot be true until (i) becomes true
So unless one is intending to exploit the presence of an ambiguity, courtesy of the word "produce", and suggest that this word was somehow intended to be synonymous with "create", rather than "present", I can confidently state that I have effectively challenged the "no evidence exists until evidence is presented" assertion, via demonstration of the inherently faulty application of logic embedded within same.
Even if one has complete confidence that a particular event did not occur, the conclusion that one " can safely claim there's no evidence" remains unsound.
It occurs to me that a person might easily arrive at a similarly erroneous conclusion by neglecting to consider some important distinctions between the meanings of the words "evidence","effect", and"proof".
Consider the enormity of the task of actually demonstrating the "non existence of evidence" for any humanly conceivable event (irrespective of actual occurrence or lack thereof).
Now consider just how little evidence would be required for invalidation of that same assertion!
One meek sliver of evidence, even if it were of the lowliest calibre and issued from a distrusted source, would be all it would take to render totally invalid the "there's no evidence" claim!
It could be just one person's testimony to having witnessed the event! Even if further testimonies, featuring irreconcilable differences were to emerge, all testimonies, no matter how discordant, would still qualify as forms of evidence!!.
What I am trying to highlight here, is that evidence can, and often does exist, independently of the truth of the concept it evidences.
Anyway, do you seriously believe your own conduct in this discourse, to have been so exemplary, as to be beyond reproach?
I seem to recall being asked to prove you wrong, however, I suspect that you are disinterested in such proofs. Anyhow, for reasons of practicability, I seldom acceed to requests for proof, outside of the confines of mathematics.
Perhaps a better understanding of what I definitely am, and definitely am not saying, might have been derived spending just a little more time to openly considering the content, of that which you dismissed, as evasion derived white noise!
Why is the onus upon me? I have yet to see you prove all of your assertions!
As it happens, there is a logical fault in the above "No evidence" assertion, rendering it unsound, and as such, easily challenged.
Please note that the following two statements are not synonymous:
(i) Evidence is presented
(ii) Evidence exists
Now consider the following:
If (i) is true then (ii) must also be true.
If (ii) is false then (i) must also be false.
However, when (i) is false, (ii) may be true, or it may be false.
And when (ii) is true, (i) may be true, or it may be false.
A statement akin to "No evidence exists until evidence is presented", has, by neglecting to consider the full range of logically valid possibilities, incorrectly asserted that:
(ii) cannot be true until (i) becomes true
So unless one is intending to exploit the presence of an ambiguity, courtesy of the word "produce", and suggest that this word was somehow intended to be synonymous with "create", rather than "present", I can confidently state that I have effectively challenged the "no evidence exists until evidence is presented" assertion, via demonstration of the inherently faulty application of logic embedded within same.
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