Geeze, everyone has missed the most obvious reason. The Baby Bonus!
Go down to Frankston or similar, and ask one of the 18 year old mothers who already have two kids. Why did they have kids? For the $5,000 to buy a new HD LCD and 18" wheels for the car!
I can't speak for Harleyquin, gooner, but for what it's worth, I'd say you'd be one of the best parents going. Pretty lucky kids to have you as a dad, imo.Was that "not so smart" jibe aimed at me?
I can comment on this from the point of view of having been an only child.Interesting discussion.
I've always wanted to have ONE kid by the time I'm 35 but only one.
What are peoples perspectives on number of children to breed? I notice those who have kids here have >2. Do people think its selfish to only have one kid? i.e. so the child grows up as an only child?
I have a younger sister my self, and a lot of the time I wish I was an only child...
Geeze, everyone has missed the most obvious reason. The Baby Bonus!
Go down to Frankston or similar, and ask one of the 18 year old mothers who already have two kids. Why did they have kids? For the $5,000 to buy a new HD LCD and 18" wheels for the car!
Actually, gooner, the reason it's now paid in instalments is because of the reality of the suggestion it was being spent on plasmas etc. No, you wouldn't do that, but I can assure you there's a whole section of our society who did indeed regard the baby bonus as as a good reason to get pregnant.Talkback radio garbage I suspect. No one in their right mine would have an extra kid because of $5k. Government now pays it in fortnightly instalments because of the chatter about it being blown on mag wheels and new plasmas.
Western populations are shrinking. Abortion, lifestyle "choices" etc have guaranteed our extinction unless we turn that around and start breeding again. And I can't see that happening, unless there's a complete moral 180 in this society. The family unit, no matter what you may think of it, is the perfect container for raising kids. And before anyone raises the issue, I'm talking about heterosexual couples that are in a committed relationship. I assume you all had parents?
And...guess which populations are exploding?
Geeze, everyone has missed the most obvious reason. The Baby Bonus!
Go down to Frankston or similar, and ask one of the 18 year old mothers who already have two kids. Why did they have kids? For the $5,000 to buy a new HD LCD and 18" wheels for the car!
OMG.... western populations are SHIRNKING!!!! We are facing EXTINCTION!!!
Lol.... are you kidding me fishbulb?
and I'm sure meant only to stir..
since in Australia we have an ageing population
Can you explain why? If we have more aged people, fewer people working because of automation, where is the tax base coming from to support and provide medical care for this extensive aged population?Which will become less and less of an issue if and once technology filters through, in terms of automation of many jobs, and medical treatment of aging.
I can't speak for Harleyquin, gooner, but for what it's worth, I'd say you'd be one of the best parents going. Pretty lucky kids to have you as a dad, imo.
Actually, gooner, the reason it's now paid in instalments is because of the reality of the suggestion it was being spent on plasmas etc. No, you wouldn't do that, but I can assure you there's a whole section of our society who did indeed regard the baby bonus as as a good reason to get pregnant.
It wasn't at all talkback radio garbage, but cold reality.
Can you explain why? If we have more aged people, fewer people working because of automation, where is the tax base coming from to support and provide medical care for this extensive aged population?
I have always been fascinated by the reasoning people go through before they decide to have children. From a very young age, actually I was 8 and can distinctly remember the moment, I realised having kids was not for me. Since then I have wondered what it was that made people invite such drastic and irreversible change into their lives. Are women still pressured by society? Do men feel a foreboding sense of mortality as they mature and think it is somehow important they leave a physical mark on the world?
For the life of me I can't work it out, which is no slight on people who have families mind you, just a mystery I feel i will never concoct a suitable answer to.
Not that I actually spend much time these days analysing the motivations of people, but with a few of my work colleagues and one of my friends either recently having, or imminently about to have, offspring I thought it would be interesting to hear from both sides of the fence. What were your reasons and what are your objections?
thanks
I promise you that some young women I've spoken with were thrilled and delighted at the notion that they could get $5K for having a child."
Understand that some people will splash out on TV's etc, but talkback also suggested the 5,000 was the reason for having a baby in the first place. That is what I find far-fetched rather than what the money is spent on.
Yes, I get the advanced capacity to extend life etc., but you haven't answered my question (indeed have underlined it) about how if fewer people are working where is the tax base coming from to support all these additional aged people?Well, in a more advanced civilisation, what we would consider "aged" could be far older than what we consider it to be today. I'm sure this sounds far-fetched to some, but consider how far we've advanced in the last 100 or so years, and then consider how much we may advance in the next 50. Consider that we can already clone animals, and then apply more advanced, related technology to ourselves.
I think a far more important issue is automation, with advanced computers, robotics etc, which would render many current jobs obsolete. Interesting times ahead.
Here are some observations from a parent of 3 teenagers.
* 30 to 50% of conceptions are unplanned, from talking to other parents..Google it if u dont believe me.
* most women I know have a strong biological urge/imperative to breed by their late 30s. Men can wait a bit longer, but the bug often bites them.
*older children are very expensive, with the way Social Security is now, you effectivly have to support them until they are 25, if they go to Uni, and have not established official independence.
*teenagers act like over 18s..they cannot be stopped, it is impossible to control them if they dont accept control, many forms of discipline are now illegal.
* the baby bonus is a big incentive to young couples of a certain ilk.
* Not having children is a valid and logical alternative IMO, due to environmental, social and financial concerns.
I am always careful if discussing this matter, as most childless couples,
that I know, have fertility problems, much to their distress.
Many single, seperated or divorced persons also wish they had kids, but dont, for many reasons.
* I am of the opinion that having children has expanded my world greatly for many reasons, its complex and hard to explain.
* If you choose not to have children, my observation, is that it is difficult to avoid a selfish attitude, this is entirely understandable, but not wholly desirable. Of course, this is a generalisation, and can be mitigated, but it is what I have seen. No offence intended to anyone that makes that choice.
Loneliness also seems to be a difficult issue for childless persons
Here are some observations from a parent of 3 teenagers.
* 30 to 50% of conceptions are unplanned, from talking to other parents..Google it if u dont believe me.
* most women I know have a strong biological urge/imperative to breed by their late 30s. Men can wait a bit longer, but the bug often bites them.
*older children are very expensive, with the way Social Security is now, you effectivly have to support them until they are 25, if they go to Uni, and have not established official independence.
*teenagers act like over 18s..they cannot be stopped, it is impossible to control them if they dont accept control, many forms of discipline are now illegal.
* the baby bonus is a big incentive to young couples of a certain ilk.
* Not having children is a valid and logical alternative IMO, due to environmental, social and financial concerns.
I am always careful if discussing this matter, as most childless couples,
that I know, have fertility problems, much to their distress.
Many single, seperated or divorced persons also wish they had kids, but dont, for many reasons.
* I am of the opinion that having children has expanded my world greatly for many reasons, its complex and hard to explain.
* If you choose not to have children, my observation, is that it is difficult to avoid a selfish attitude, this is entirely understandable, but not wholly desirable. Of course, this is a generalisation, and can be mitigated, but it is what I have seen. No offence intended to anyone that makes that choice.
Loneliness also seems to be a difficult issue for childless persons
OMG.... western populations are SHIRNKING!!!! We are facing EXTINCTION!!!
Lol.... are you kidding me fishbulb? At the turn of the end of the 19th Century there were around 1.5 billion on the planet, and at the end of the 20th, around 6 Billion. That makes us the most populous mammal by about.... I don't know 100 , 1000 times?
And if you want to talk about Western populations Australia had 7million when my father was born. To contemplate our extinction through lack of breeding is a very odd concept, and I'm sure meant only to stir...
This of course brings me to one of my own little *rants* on childbirth... the pros and cons. In my view, the world is full. Actually, probably about 230-500% full (i.e. I would prefer it with a population of around 1-3bill). It seems to be a frequently overlooked aspect of environmenta issues, for all that world governments discuss CO2 emissions, peak oil, deforestation and bloody whales. Population growth rarely features in any debate.
The only "humane"way to achieve a lower population is by reducing our birthrates. The alternatives- famine, disease, war, natural disaster... will achieve the same ends, but not my preference!!! So if that means 1 or 0 children each for the next 3-4 generations.... well, as it has been mentioned by many others in this thread you can still lead a full life without parenthood (though I mean no disrespect to parents by this comment).
Em... I think that's enough from me for now.
non paternity is another issue.
plenty of those breeders out there are knocking of anything to get knocked up. enough for it to be as high as 10% of first borners are not from the dad they know..
some women may have a mad keen desire to get pregnant to save a marriage or to keep a marriage going..
children should be born then removed from parents then balloted out to those who want them
that way the desires in women to get pregnant are properly addressed
the desires in men to get a woman pregnant are addressed
and those who actually want children can have them and will do a damn sight better job perhaps than those who are simply doin it for a grant, or for some other self interest..
Can you explain what you mean when you suggest people who choose not to have children (may) have a selfish attitude?* If you choose not to have children, my observation, is that it is difficult to avoid a selfish attitude, this is entirely understandable, but not wholly desirable. Of course, this is a generalisation, and can be mitigated, but it is what I have seen. No offence intended to anyone that makes that choice.
Having children is no guarantee against loneliness. A psychologist I know says it takes four daughters (daughters, mind you, not just 4 children), to ensure you won't end up in a nursing home when you're old and infirm.Loneliness also seems to be a difficult issue for childless persons
Can you explain what you mean when you suggest people who choose not to have children (may) have a selfish attitude?
In what way?
Some examples?
Having children is no guarantee against loneliness. A psychologist I know says it takes four daughters (daughters, mind you, not just 4 children), to ensure you won't end up in a nursing home when you're old and infirm.
I'm sure your children are terrific, awg, but there are plenty of instances where parents find the lack of interest or care from their adult children very hurtful and disappointing.
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