To all those who do/have studied at Uni...

Chops,

I will look into what you said. I have kinda taken it into my own hands, and am now studying a Diploma full time concurrently, external to uni.

Barney,

Thanks also. Dont get me wrong, I am heaps passionate about finance. Anything to do with it really, i love finding out and learning about it all, it just fascinates me. I just get bored with the 'basics' that they seem to teach at uni. But as others have said, I do need the piece of paper

With regards to a job, i think i would be happy with a "career" providing i enjoy what it was i was doing (or at last the majority). My old man always said that being happy is important, and i couldnt agree more, but at this stage in life i dont have any massive desire to work for myself. Not yet anyway.

prawn_86 said:

Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?

Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.

I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.

So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?


IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!

Click to expand...

Prawn et al, I highly recommend you read a book by Harvey McKay "Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive"

One aspect of the book really stuck with me (I read this in the 80's), if you pay for education you will not only complete it, you will excel at it. He also went on to cite several notary successful people with little or no education and there are many more.

I am now 51 and on my 4th career move, each one better/different than/to the previous and more rewarding. I have a trade, 2 CertIV's and a Post Grad all of which have enhanced my prospects and knowledge.

Take the journey, the more you challenge yourself the more you will realise how little you know and how much you can actually achieve.

Prawn, I think I relate a little from my too many years at uni.........I also think you have already answered the question....

The fact is I could not motivate myself to do the extra lot of work required for more distinction grades as many of us want to get into real life situations and problems whilst we know we have to trudge through what can often be academic drivel....

I think you already know the key too......focus on your extra stuff....your passions, your interests......expand your base of competencies.....do a bit of volunteer work

The extra grades you may get from more work is just going to alienate all but the most prissy employers......and you get to start making yourself a unique commodity right now, outside the confines of your courses and qualifications....hope that makes some sense.

KIWIKARLOS said:

if you like what you do you'll be good at it.

There are some degree's which are harder than other eg. Chemistry , pyshics and mathematics. I find trying to learn things which you can't relate to real world things is difficult.

Click to expand...

I agree with this Prawn.

Also when its a piece of paper and not a packet of knowledge, wheres the value...................

You make the point earlier that you are obtaining much more knowledge out in the world. If so, see your degree for what it is-

A Blue Card, a union ticket, trade ticket etc

Whatever's required to get you on site

As Kiwi says, pick up a chem', physics, geology,engineering etc - unit or two and learn about something real.
Your into resource stocks why not look at metallurgy or something as a minor?

I must agree that the content of undergrad' courses surprised me as a mature age student and I rapidly understood why we (us old dudes) are so constantly disappointed with the quality of graduates when they join us in the workforce.

I'm only studying (BSc) for my own interest and find I only learn (something new) when a problem posed makes me look elsewhere for the answer

At 35, I'd recommend finishing your degree and doing something else altogether, like head out to Olymipic Dam for 12months as a fieldie, T/A, nipper or similiar.
Then decide your next step.
I bet you learn all sorts of stuff (both internal and externally) you never thought you'd need

Cheers
J

prawn_86 said:

Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?

Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.

I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.

So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?


IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!

Click to expand...

While on the subject of the university educated types you should never forget this rule from 2nd grade: i before e old mate!that peice(sic)of paper will??stand you out from the pack as you say,also going through your first page of posts i see tenament(sic)no a's in tenement...your lucky kennas is not on the grammatical-spelling war path !but hey what would i know i am just a truck driver...any mistakes in that lot??,cop a tip dont get yourself a big head thinking your ahead of the pack,as for lindsay fox(truck driver made good)linfox a private company is worth around $980m.uni degree dont mean a thing if your head cannot fit through the door.....tb

prawn_86 said:

Chops,

I will look into what you said. I have kinda taken it into my own hands, and am now studying a Diploma full time concurrently, external to uni.

Barney,

Thanks also. Dont get me wrong, I am heaps passionate about finance. Anything to do with it really, i love finding out and learning about it all, it just fascinates me. I just get bored with the 'basics' that they seem to teach at uni. But as others have said, I do need the piece of paper

With regards to a job, i think i would be happy with a "career" providing i enjoy what it was i was doing (or at last the majority). My old man always said that being happy is important, and i couldnt agree more, but at this stage in life i dont have any massive desire to work for myself. Not yet anyway.

Click to expand...

Yeah, your old man is right ....... (Funny how age gives you a different perspective on life) .... If you can be happy AND make a good living etc. that is nirvana (musical pun for the non-musical....... Kurt Cobain was mega rich, but I suspect he was never happy ........... If I was filthy rich, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't terminate myself!) ...........

Glad you are passionate about your subjects, even if they are boring at times ... I actually have a saying for my kidz ............. "Boredom is a luxury" (older/middle aged buggas like me will appreciate that I'm sure ) .......... If you are bored with something because it is "easy", then that gives you time to concentrate on something else which interests you ............... Be happy if Uni is boring, cause most are probably struggling ......... whereas you have "spare time" ... Cheers.

Prawn, as someone who didn't go to uni until I was in my 30's (when I left school my father said "I'm not wasting money on you going to university when you will only get married and have babies!), I'd urge you to review your laissez faire approach and make the most of your time of life, whilst your intelligence is at its peak and your opportunities virtually limitless.

You have the latter part of your life to regret all that you didn't do when you were in the best position to do it. Take on extra. Do what you have to in order to feel challenged. If it's all too easy for you, then you need to change what you are doing. Not having to try is a bad habit to get into at your age. Too easy for that to become the normal approach to whatever you take on. Look for something which is difficult. That will offer you a sense of achievement.

I don't mean to sound critical. I'm just intensely aware of how easy it is to squander the best part of your life.

Good luck. Up to you what choices you make.

tigerboi said:

While on the subject of the university educated types you should never forget this rule from 2nd grade: i before e old mate!that peice(sic)of paper will??stand you out from the pack as you say,also going through your first page of posts i see tenament(sic)no a's in tenement...your lucky kennas is not on the grammatical-spelling war path !but hey what would i know i am just a truck driver...any mistakes in that lot??,cop a tip dont get yourself a big head thinking your ahead of the pack,as for lindsay fox(truck driver made good)linfox a private company is worth around $980m.uni degree dont mean a thing if your head cannot fit through the door.....tb

Click to expand...

Can't help but think you having a go at me here TB

If your going to have a crack at my spelling (which i admit can get poor when typed in haste or informally) how about you fix up your grammar and format so i cant at least read it easier

PS - From what i have seen of Lindsay Fox, he is one of the most humble men going around

Julia said:

I'd urge you to review your laissez faire approach and make the most of your time of life, whilst your intelligence is at its peak and your opportunities virtually limitless.

I don't mean to sound critical. I'm just intensely aware of how easy it is to squander the best part of your life.

Click to expand...

Julia,

Thanks for your opinion/advice.

Dont get me wrong, I do a lot of things, I would consider myself far from lazy, which I think is why my knowledge seems to be ahead of where I am at subject wise with uni.

I am on various comittes/boards, I work 2 days a week, I study 2 degrees full time and a Diploma full time externally, Im a mod here, and i am constantly researching shares/learning about different markets (ie forex) in my spare time.

Again this comes back to my original point, which a few other members seem to have commented on. Does increasing study/knowledge externally to uni make uni easier and therefore less enjoyable/challenging?

uni is about teaching processes based on tested (and usually somewhat old) theory. the point is to take the concepts, methods and lessons and apply it to relevant situations. general studies subjects (don't know if they are still compulsory) are an excellent way to learn about any number of topics. i studied history but loved the chance to learn do physics and astronomy.

unless you are of a superior intellect doing a seriously taxing course (in which case you would have excelled all through school anyway) then uni is pretty much a doddle. learn some concepts and processes, chase some women and expand your mind however you like. its good to be smart but keep things in perspective, lots of us can achieve with little effort but it doesn't mean you are above learning.

how you play the game depends on your goal. if you wanted to go the academic route then apply yourself now and do a thesis on something that interests you. otherwise get the piece of paper, go corporate and rise as high as your morals and pride let you. the bit of paper just shows you a door, its your personality that will get you through it.

prawn_86 said:

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?

Click to expand...

I'm surprised noone has suggested smoking pot ... but I guess that would be irresponsible lol.

imo the best way to show that you're head of the pack is to be head of the pack - i.e. get the good grades - it will open more doors - the top employers do look at grades (as well as interpersonal and communication skills of course).

I've always been surprised at the poor literacy of NSW graduates these days and in hiring people for jobs it was a big issue - it seemed to be hard to hire people capable of putting a document together - so all tongue in cheek aside I'd recommend working on spelling and grammar alongside learning the vocation you're in.

And I'd also heed what Barney is saying - if you ever find yourself in a rut, or after graduating working in a company where you're just an android following the company program etc. then figure out what changes you need to make to have a satisfying and fullfilling career/life path. But sounds like you're doing something your passionate about anyway which is good.

prawn_86 said:

Again this comes back to my original point, which a few other members seem to have commented on. Does increasing study/knowledge externally to uni make uni easier and therefore less enjoyable/challenging?

Click to expand...

1. It depends on what you want out of uni:
I studied comp sci and I got a first (upper distinction) - I wasn't at all interest in do academic stuff - 15 straight years of education was enough for me.

Some mates went on to honours, phd's etc and now work at Microsoft...

Most above average people are bored with uni. Uni's are businesses and their business is to optimise the funds they can squeeze out of people before they hand them a piece of paper. However, its like anything - you can also put more in and you get bigger returns...e.g. Head of network protocols at Microsoft...The thing is that guy was brilliant - there was a book on Algorithms by Rivest, Shamir and Adleman - the RSA encryption people - the last 2 questions in each chapter were ridiculously hard!!!! He could do them - you need to know where you're at - you might be above average but not brilliant...If so why spend another 1, 2 years to get a fancier piece of paper?

I wanted cash and to travel the world working - so I worked full time while studying full time in my final year. I got paid more than any grad with a degree (even mining degrees while I was still at uni.

I was working in London at 22 and was designing an equities research platform. It was a buzz to be on a tele conf with the ING head of euro equities at that age but a lot of responsibility...

I live in Zurich now - I've got want I originally wanted but I feel I've missed out in some respects. The grass is always greener. Which brings me to my next point and your question

2. Depends on what sort of study/knowledge you are talking about.
If you do prac work that you will do be doing when you leave then you will find uni even more boring. If you aren't going to get paid good coin for learning this why do it? If you want to learn something - learn soft skills. When you focus on academics you miss out on soft skills and that is what is important in business!!!!

Diversify your skills - you'll enjoy life more and ultimately thats what its all about. Employers will pay a premium for a guy with broader life experiences. I'd also say that most employers aren't Cambridge or Oxford phds (although I once interviewed for a company where 8 of 10 people were...) they are average (most often they are below average middle managers who are amibitionless and thats why they have been hired) so they are more inclined to employ you as a Upper Credit than a guy with a Distinction and narrow skills. Few people want to hire someone better than themselves.

So, to summarise - spend your extra time getting wasted and trying to pick up chicks

I did a double degree in both engineering and marketing. The Engineering degree included practical experience working in industry before being able to graduate, but the marketing degree was abit of a joke. I traveled and worked in SE Asian during my study, and the guy pushing me on a bike, could recite the 4 P's of marketing. I also remember an Advertising lecturer turning up to class so pissed he called the end of the class after 5 mins. I can see why some people may be frustrated with the experience.

However I would like to know that meds, and engineers graduated before practicing.

I remember a story about a Canadian engineer that designed a bridge, which collapsed and killed x number of people, and the Uni that taught the Engineer was involved in the hearing. The most memorable part of the story, is that I believe that rings are now presented to graduates, made from the melted bridge as a reminder of the responsibility they have.

cuttlefish said:

I'm surprised noone has suggested smoking pot ... but I guess that would be irresponsible lol.

Click to expand...

Hahaha, thats how you make otherwise dull and repetative work seem overwhelming and challenging

and what will you say to your first prospective employer.... aaahh... Uni was easy and a lot of it irrelevant so I just cruised through.. no sweat???
Bet that will impress a lot of bosses to be..
Despite my work being dull, boring, tedious, and repetitive I have given it 100% always, and my boss has always given me 100% of my wages in return. I have now advanced to an undercover/out of the weather carpark... and yes I still have my first broom... handle replaced 5 times and the head 14 times but it's still ...
Cheers
...........Kauri

Arr, in continuation to my previous post, one thing you learn at Uni, is that lecturers often, don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

The above post prompted me to do some research (pretty sure wiki wasn't around at the time to check anyhow),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

Kauri said:

Despite my work being dull, boring, tedious, and repetitive I have given it 100% always, and my boss has always given me 100% of my wages in return. I have now advanced to an undercover/out of the weather carpark... and yes I still have my first broom... handle replaced 5 times and the head 14 times but it's still ...

Click to expand...

Our man Kauri seems to be at a more advanced stage than just suggesting it :

cuttlefish said:

I'm surprised noone has suggested smoking pot ... but I guess that would be irresponsible lol.

Click to expand...

I have a Bachelor of Arts (double major in literature and politics), Diploma of Education, First class honours in literature and a partially completed PhD in literature. I decided to defer my PhD to a later date as the money issue was killing me. Have now worked in the private academic coaching field for 5 years now and I make more money than a professor. I also really enjoy my work. Best of both worlds I guess. Many theoretical components you will never use in the real world and many aspects of a skilled job will develop as you gain experience. Uni does not teach you how to relate effectively with other people, how to manipulate your working environment so that you become the foundation for the successful running of the business - this is true bargaining power!

imajica said:

... more money than a professor.

Click to expand...

hey ima, how much does a prof make anyway? ( just interested).

It is probably typical of society's lack of acknowledgment of the contribution of the teaching/academic profession that even someone who reaches the pinnacle is still underpaid. (yes?)

Then again Sol Trujillo just gave himself a pay rise from $11mill to $20 mill whatever - despite the shareholders voting 'no'.

Some more interesting responses coming out

Kauri said:

and what will you say to your first prospective employer.... aaahh... Uni was easy and a lot of it irrelevant so I just cruised through.. no sweat???
Bet that will impress a lot of bosses to be..

Click to expand...

My response will be something along the line of:
"I managed to maintain a distinction average, while achieving a heap of extra curricular activities, both academic and practical. Hence why I have some quality references" and for investment banks I will add in "I have been runing my own portfolio for X years, so i have real money management, analysis etc etc experience"

imajica said:

Uni does not teach you how to relate effectively with other people, how to manipulate your working environment so that you become the foundation for the successful running of the business - this is true bargaining power!

Click to expand...

I agree here imajica. I took a gap yr between hs and uni and worked. It was definitely a year well spent due to the business knowledge I gained.


Keep those thoughts flowing