To all those who do/have studied at Uni...

prawn_86 · 14 March 2008

Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?

Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.

I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.

So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?

IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!

doctorj · 14 March 2008

Life doesn't change - as long as you intend to work for someone else, you need to be prepared to jump through the hoops they expect you to.

There's not much value in a lot of undergrad courses and even some professional qualifications. Gotta play the game though.

theasxgorilla · 14 March 2008

prawn_86 said:
So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

Back when I studied IT, if you didn't want to be a programmer it was likely that you would find a large portion of what you were learning inapplicable after you graduated.

prawn_86 said:
If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?

I left uni with a year still to complete as at the time the IT industry was screaming out for people and I could earn silly money just for knowing where the Windows 'start' button was. At some point I was put forward for a job which was a graduate position and the pr1ck who interviewed me mentioned about 10 times how it was a graduate position and I hadn't graduated yet (my boss at the time had recommended me based on merit, and 3/4 completion of a degree).

Fortunately I never got the job and it was the fate of a couple of other poor saps to put up with an underpaying payscale for their next two years getting shuffled around from team to team while I got 20% increases year on year those same two years, not to mention a lot more experience/responsibility...so you could say it was a blessing in disguise.

Still, I was SO fired up by this 'rejection' that I practically enrolled for my final year that week and went back to study full time and work full time. I've still never actually used my degree since for getting a job or anything, but I never wanted a so-and-so like this guy to sit on the other side of an interview table and play holier-than-though with me again.

It's like you have said in other posts Prawn. You can't figure out a way to beat them so you join them and beat them convincingly at their own game Then let them hide behind their pieces of paper and titles while you forge your own path.

ASX.G

Robb · 14 March 2008

Hey Prawn,

Yeah, I agree with what you are posting... I study a B of Economics and a B of finance at ANU. However my problem is that everything I have learned seems to be irrelevant in the real world... Its interesting, can be complicated, challenging and I enjoy learning it, it just seems way to theoretical. A full semester on CAPM seems crazy!
What degree are you doing?
My grades aren't fantastic, about an average of 60 and have failed a course here and there, so i am just paranoid that i am going to graduate and not get a job. I graduate from Becon this year, and Bfinance next year, and currently have a good job in IT in the public service, but its not want I want to be doing. Will be applying for internships in banking soon, but just so nervous about it all

Prospector · 14 March 2008

Uni is just the beginning not the end point. A degree shows employers that you have intelligence in your chosen field, and can complete something over a period of time. The real learning comes when you apply the Uni degree in the workplace.

prawn_86 · 14 March 2008

Robb,

I study a double in Finance and Marketing at UniSA.

I have just under a distinction average, but really it should be higher. I just put very little effort in.

Its just frustrating when things are so simple. Are all unis like this? IE - what sort of stuff do Ivy Leage schools teach?

Hell, last year we spent one whole tutorial covering BODMAS. If you didnt learn that in yr 8 you shouldnt be at uni.

prawn_86 · 14 March 2008

Prospector said:
Uni is just the beginning not the end point. A degree shows employers that you have intelligence in your chosen field.

P,

that is kind of my point. The stuff they are teaching has very little relevance. I have so much knowledge learnt outside of uni, and yet it is my grades that will determine if i get an interview or not.

Im confident that if i get an interview i would be able to enhance on my other skills, but grades are what get you in the door with graduate roles, even if the subjects are crap.

MRC & Co · 14 March 2008

I found the same when at Uni.

I already learnt most of it and hence my results suffered as I was a bit cocky and didnt study (at all for some units). I ended up with the same as you, a Distinction average. Funnily enough, the units I topped with high HDs were the ones I knew the least about and as such, actually took time to listen and learn.

Definately more value in the peice of paper than what you learn though.

But as said above, gotta play the game!

There were a few units I found interesting and things I wouldnt have learnt otherwise.

International Economics was complex and enjoyable. I did another called Organisational Performance I think, which had nothing to do with the name and was simply about thinking outside the box. At first I questioned it because we werent learning anything you could directly apply, however, the end result definately helped my lateral thinking.

So I guess play the game and you will be sure to learn some useful things. There will always be subject areas that even the most academic (not that I classify myself as an academic) of us will have no clue about!

Uni life is a great time though! Enjoy that aspect of it! Was the best time of my life!

explod · 14 March 2008

prawn_86 said:
P,

that is kind of my point. The stuff they are teaching has very little relevance. I have so much knowledge learnt outside of uni, and yet it is my grades that will determine if i get an interview or not.

Im confident that if i get an interview i would be able to enhance on my other skills, but grades are what get you in the door with graduate roles, even if the subjects are crap.

Just put up with it, do your best and make sure in third year (and from what you assert you should) that you get high distinctions, particularly for your core. At that stage, not only your industry but the faculty will open doors that you never dreamed. I repeat, again if you are as good as you say you are, you will be able to get into post grad research that is determined by your own criteria. Just htink about that for a moment.

Keep up the good work and you may run the pack one day.

lazyfish · 14 March 2008

prawn_86 said:
Robb,

Its just frustrating when things are so simple. Are all unis like this? IE - what sort of stuff do Ivy Leage schools teach?

I did my undergrad (Computer Science) in Cornell (Ivy League). Stuff taught there were not very relevant, but they very hard, with lots and lots of big assignments. For some units it's common for students to sleep in labs struggling to finish assignments. I also did a bunch of economics units back then and they are more relevant and seems easier. But yeah, I learnt way more practical stuff while working. Regardless, I think grades are still important, they can give you significant advantage (or disadvantage). You said the stuff you are learning is easy, why not put in a bit of effort and get good grades ?

dutchie · 14 March 2008

G'day prawn

The motivation to do things that bore you at uni is to attack! Instead of feeling negative about it turn it around and study harder on that material and set your sights on getting 100% in every exam/assignment you do. If you study the subject matter and feel you know it backwards and still have time up your sleeve then add some extracurricular material that your interested in.

The effort you put in now will be rewarded further in time where a lot more doors will be available to you.

Thats the system!!

Cheers

Dutchie

KIWIKARLOS · 14 March 2008

pfffft how hard is a finance degree, there's what 3-4 equations : you know how to do a NPV and really its just basic math with some behaviouable science and economic history attached. Nah im just joshin but in all seriousness i think if you like what you do you'll be good at it.

There are some degree's which are harder than other eg. Chemistry , pyshics and mathematics. I find trying to learn things which you can't relate to real world things is difficult.

tigerboi · 14 March 2008

prawn_86 said:
Has anyone out there ever been studying and just felt that you are way out in front of the pack?

Reason I ask is I find myself in that situation in virtually every subject I study.

I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.

So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?

IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!

Who went to university out of this lot,lindsay fox,dick smith,john singleton,gerry harvey,crazy john,kerry packer,rupert murdoch????

Tell me this is your lecturer as smart as this guy?If he is then its worth going on!!!

explod · 14 March 2008

tigerboi said:
Who went to university out of this lot,lindsay fox,dick smith,john singleton,gerry harvey,crazy john,kerry packer,rupert murdoch????

Tell me this is your lecturer as smart as this guy?If he is then its worth going on!!!

Yeh they made a lot of money and certainly employed and helped a lot of people but except for a couple of them they are boring dunderheads; but because of such people being in command so to speak most of the world is a failure.

The turnaround of Ireland since they instituted free tertiary education to all has been nothing short of fantastic and that includes economic as well.

America in the last thirty odd years has let public education slide and that has been identified as the reason for the dumbing down and must have over all else to their current demise.

the barry · 14 March 2008

prawn_86 said:
Robb,

I study a double in Finance and Marketing at UniSA.

I have just under a distinction average, but really it should be higher. I just put very little effort in.

Its just frustrating when things are so simple. Are all unis like this? IE - what sort of stuff do Ivy Leage schools teach?

Hell, last year we spent one whole tutorial covering BODMAS. If you didnt learn that in yr 8 you shouldnt be at uni.

Prawn, if it is all so easy, then why aren't you getting higher grades? If you know you need good grades to get a foot in the door, then why aren't you getting those grades? For someone who considers themselves so far in front of the pack, your ability to put two and two together seems quite behind the pack.

refined silver · 14 March 2008

I need the peices of paper to get the jobs I want, but because i study/learn outside of uni, everything we cover seems so basic. Which in turns means I put no effort in, which means my grades (although still good) are not as good as they could be.

Yes. So you must put some effort in.

So my questions are:
Have you ever felt what you are/were studying is below you/pointless?

Probably everybody whose ever studied has flet like this at some point. A lot can be useful later on, even if only for building blocks for more useful stuff or background knowledge that helps in better understanding some things.

If so:
What did you do to motivate yourself? Did/do you still achieve decent grades?

Dunno!!!

IE - Just had a lecture and we are going to spend a whole semester on CAPM. When I asked the lecturer about its usefulness after class he pretty much said that its crap and not worthwhile!

Sad to say but if the lecturer thinks its crap you won't get anything out of it. The best teachers are those who understand how their material relates to important stuff in the real world and are passionate about it. There's a few good teachers out there, for many mediocre ones where you learn nothing.

I did a B Econ at Qld Uni, 20yrs ago. Much was useless, a bit was very good, some stuff I learnt had to be unlearnt later on, when I realised it was only someone's theory and was totally flawed. I then taught Econ for a few years and got re-interested in it.

Most undergrad stuff is too theoretical. Its all the background stuff. Postgrad stuff tends to be much more relevant, practical, and useful. However usually need an undergrad degree to later do postgrad stuff!

Also true as someone else mentioned, that some of the best in many fields, never learnt at uni, but this is probably only for the few.

barney · 14 March 2008

explod said:
Yeh they made a lot of money and certainly employed and helped a lot of people but except for a couple of them they are boring dunderheads; but because of such people being in command so to speak most of the world is a failure.

The turnaround of Ireland since they instituted free tertiary education to all has been nothing short of fantastic and that includes economic as well.

America in the last thirty odd years has let public education slide and that has been identified as the reason for the dumbing down and must have over all else to their current demise.

Hi Explod, I wouldn't normally bite, but what the hell .... its friday night!

It doesn't concern me to any great degree (excuse the pun, and good luck with it Prawn) but to say that most of the people mentioned above are boring dunderheads is a little presumptuous unless you know them personally ……….. Also , to insinuate that employing and helping people is of less importance than being boring seems a little harsh at best …………. I don’t see too many of these people ruining the world as you state ….. to the contrary in fact …………..
I do understand your point re education, but think you may have taken one step too far in condemning the “not so educated” ……………. If everybody was University educated, who would dig the holes and clean out the “gully traps of the world” etc etc. ……… (maybe those who only achieve credits instead of high distinctions lol !!)
All the best, Barney.

prawn_86 · 14 March 2008

the barry said:
Prawn, if it is all so easy, then why aren't you getting higher grades? If you know you need good grades to get a foot in the door, then why aren't you getting those grades? For someone who considers themselves so far in front of the pack, your ability to put two and two together seems quite behind the pack.

It is the lack of motivation, which is what is being discussed in this thread. My grades are hugely above average, in fact, in my classes i do not know anyone with higher grades, however im sure there are, i just havnt talked to them yet. (200+ people per subject)

It is not that i find it hard, it is the fact that the majority of it is theoretical, and has very little application.

As with MRC, i seem to better in subjects that challenge me, or that i have not learnt before.

If it is a challenge then i am motivated, if not i struggle.

Refined Silver,
I think the lecturer was good to be frank with me. It was after class and in a discussion between just the 2 of us. IMO it shows that he can recognise beyond the syllabus which he needs to teach. I think it is as much the syllabus' fault as the lecturer, and he cannot change that on his own.

i also agree that postgrad is interesting, and will most probably do an honours year, if i do not get a decent job straight out

Tigerboi,
There are succesfull people without qualifications i agree. But look at their generation. I think you will find that a majority of the 'high flyers' of our generation will all have degrees. Plus i could run off a huge list of people who are in their league with degrees.

These men recognised and exploited opportunity, without a doubt, but i bet they encourage their children to go to uni.

chops_a_must · 14 March 2008

dutchie said:
G'day prawn

The motivation to do things that bore you at uni is to attack! Instead of feeling negative about it turn it around and study harder on that material and set your sights on getting 100% in every exam/assignment you do. If you study the subject matter and feel you know it backwards and still have time up your sleeve then add some extracurricular material that your interested in.

The effort you put in now will be rewarded further in time where a lot more doors will be available to you.

Thats the system!!

Cheers

Dutchie

Pretty much. If you enjoy it, you'll do well, if not, it will suck, and your marks will slip. But don't enjoy it so much that you become a perpetual student like me. Lol!

Having said that, when I had to do an econs unit, as a mandatory unit, I found it really difficult. Not because it was hard, but because it was just a load of BS and I got bored. The only way I got through it was to continually trash what the lecturer was on about. It was the only way I could learn what they were on about, and got good marks for it. Perhaps it is something you can do?

the barry said:
Prawn, if it is all so easy, then why aren't you getting higher grades? If you know you need good grades to get a foot in the door, then why aren't you getting those grades? For someone who considers themselves so far in front of the pack, your ability to put two and two together seems quite behind the pack.

I'd listen to this^

Does your Uni have an accelerated student programme? I have the option to do an MBA before I graduate if I want. It's open for students in the top certain percent. There's that number again! It could give you something to aim for if your uni had something similar.

Another option is to do ISC's, independent study contracts, where you find out something you want to learn about, and do an assignment/s on that. Counts for the same amount of points as an ordinary unit, but you can do it over holidays as well. But more importantly it allows you to only study things you want to learn.

Hope this helps...

barney · 14 March 2008

prawn_86 said:
It is the lack of motivation, which is what is being discussed in this thread. My grades are hugely above average, in fact, in my classes i do not know anyone with higher grades, however im sure there are, i just havnt talked to them yet. (200+ people per subject)
If it is a challenge then i am motivated, if not i struggle.

There are succesfull people without qualifications i agree. But look at their generation. I think you will find that a majority of the 'high flyers' of our generation will all have degrees. Plus i could run off a huge list of people who are in their league with degrees.

These men recognised and exploited opportunity, without a doubt, but i bet they encourage their children to go to uni.

Hi Prawn, I commend your obvious academic abilities .......... I am obviously a lot older than you (and I don't have a Uni degree), but my humble advice to you is ......... Study something that interests you, or something you can be passionate about, otherwise you could end up on the treadmill of "yuppyville" (doing a job to make a crapload of money, but still not being satisfied) ..... I don't know what year you are in at Uni, but life is a short journey ........ If you have the ability to steer that journey (via superior academic capabilities), then don't settle for something which limits your potential ............ If you are smart ....... don't just settle for a high paying "career" ......... Make a difference in the world and do something "special" ............Chances are, if you are both smart and passionate about your work, you have the opportunity to "help" society at the same time as make a "crapload" of money ........... Win win for all !! ....Cheers M8,and good luck with it.

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