The West has lost its freedom of speech

[SirRumpole]

Agreed they're generally the ones gagged but they don't greatly lose from it.

If the debate's killed off or goes nowhere then that suits a conservative just fine.

Environmentalism is a case in point. Arguments for or against aside, a generation ago well it was whales, sand mining, uranium, dams, forests and so on and society did indeed change.

Today it's "climate change" which has gone around and around forever and isn't actually being addressed. It's just become one of those background sort of subjects that's perpetually in the news with nothing much being done about it. Environmentalism isn't what it used to be, it has been largely neutered in practice.

Yes, when the Conservatives are in power they just ignore things they don't want to know about, and suffocate the activists with silence.

 

[wayneL]

the Conservatives

Point of order: This mob of petty tyrants are no conservatives, they (along with labor) are all fascists in the truest sense.

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes, when the Conservatives are in power they just ignore things they don't want to know about, and suffocate the activists with silence.

Yep - I'm not saying it's right but as I see it they're not losing from it. That is, they're getting the end result they want of continuing without change.

 

[sptrawler]

Not that I have all that much sympathy with Conservatives, but they are often the ones gagged by the progressive Left via the 'cancel culture' that has emerged against anyone that speaks out against political correctness when it contravenes the facts.

The problem is by its nature, a stock forum has a high percentage of relatively affluent or upwardly mobile individuals, so there will tend to be an elite left leaning bent to the posters.
Most right wing loonies I've met are from a disenfranchised working class background, with limited avenues for advancement, so the chances of those having representation on a stock forum is very slim.
With that in mind one has to balance the opinion on here, with an eye on the people who would be posting and with that in mind add a weighting to the "average" Australian.

 

[SirRumpole]

The problem is by its nature, a stock forum has a high percentage of relatively affluent or upwardly mobile individuals, so there will tend to be an elite left leaning bent to the posters.
Most right wing loonies I've met are from a disenfranchised working class background, with limited avenues for advancement, so the chances of those having representation on a stock forum is very slim.
With that in mind one has to balance the opinion on here, with an eye on the people who would be posting and with that in mind add a weighting to the "average" Australian.

Mmm. There seems to be an 'elite' Left and a 'marginalised' Left with the 'centre' ie the average salaried or wages employee sitting in the middle very confused.

 

[Smurf1976]

There seems to be an 'elite' Left and a 'marginalised' Left with the 'centre' ie the average salaried or wages employee sitting in the middle very confused.

Stand facing whatever screen you are reading this on.

Now turn 180 degrees to the Left and note what you see.

Turn back to look at the screen.

Now try turning 180 degrees to the Right and note what you see.

Go to the extreme Left or extreme Right and you end up in a rather similar place.

Extreme Right doesn't like foreigners, vaccination or big government.

Extreme Left doesn't like foreign ownership, chemicals or big business.

The two extremes are far more similar than either would like to admit.

 

[sptrawler]

Mmm. There seems to be an 'elite' Left and a 'marginalised' Left with the 'centre' ie the average salaried or wages employee sitting in the middle very confused.

Absolutely, there are the very well off, the fairly well off and the comfortable, you could also add to that those on a indexed public service pension who don't have a financial problem.
The average wage earner isn't well represented, also any on here, are here to hopefully further their financial knowledge, not debate politics.

 

[SirRumpole]

Stand facing whatever screen you are reading this on.

Now turn 180 degrees to the Left and note what you see.

Turn back to look at the screen.

Now try turning 180 degrees to the Right and note what you see.

Go to the extreme Left or extreme Right and you end up in a rather similar place.

Extreme Right doesn't like foreigners, vaccination or big government.

Extreme Left doesn't like foreign ownership, chemicals or big business.

The two extremes are far more similar than either would like to admit.

Interesting you said that. I reckon the anti lockdown protests in Melbourne contained elements of both the extreme Left and extreme Right, one wanting a lawless State, the other wanting enforcement of their own laws, united in a common anti government coalition.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting you said that. I reckon the anti lockdown protests in Melbourne contained elements of both the extreme Left and extreme Right, one wanting a lawless State, the other wanting enforcement of their own laws, united in a common anti government coalition.

The situation in Melbourne and Sydney would be extreme, high personal debt and no control over your ability to earn a wage, shocking situation and massively stressful. Been there done that.
Add to that the reluctance to want something injected, when your not sure about it, then being told you are going to get it whether you want it or not, so suck it up princess.
Not a good recipe for a group sing along.
All that happened was, the authorities were looking for a scapegoat, which in the circumstances is all they could do, to defuse the situation IMO.
But we are moving away from "free speech".

 

[wayneL]

Stand facing whatever screen you are reading this on.

Now turn 180 degrees to the Left and note what you see.

Turn back to look at the screen.

Now try turning 180 degrees to the Right and note what you see.

Go to the extreme Left or extreme Right and you end up in a rather similar place.

Extreme Right doesn't like foreigners, vaccination or big government.

Extreme Left doesn't like foreign ownership, chemicals or big business.

The two extremes are far more similar than either would like to admit.

Yes...

But over simplified.

Nuance rules, bro.

 

[SirRumpole]

Add to that the reluctance to want something injected, when your not sure about it, then being told you are going to get it whether you want it or not, so suck it up princess.

I don't think that's the case. If anyone was held down and forcibly injected that would definitely be assault and a breach of human rights.

It may be a condition of employment (which may amount to the same thing) but it hasn't yet been tested in court.

Flu jabs are mandatory for some workplaces so the precedent has been set.

Having said that, there is definitely cause for concern about job losses, loss of freedoms etc, but the demonstrators mostly seemed to be rent-a-crowds.

 

[sptrawler]

You may be right, I don't live over that way, so I really don't know.
But to be told you get the jab, or lose your house, is pretty daunting.

 

[Investoradam]

The situation in Melbourne and Sydney would be extreme, high personal debt and no control over your ability to earn a wage, shocking situation and massively stressful. Been there done that.
Add to that the reluctance to want something injected, when your not sure about it, then being told you are going to get it whether you want it or not, so suck it up princess.
Not a good recipe for a group sing along.
All that happened was, the authorities were looking for a scapegoat, which in the circumstances is all they could do, to defuse the situation IMO.
But we are moving away from "free speech".

It’s the basics of communism
Posts about lock downs are either deleted or receive a knock on the door from the police

 

[Investoradam]

Stand facing whatever screen you are reading this on.

Now turn 180 degrees to the Left and note what you see.

Turn back to look at the screen.

Now try turning 180 degrees to the Right and note what you see.

Go to the extreme Left or extreme Right and you end up in a rather similar place.

Extreme Right doesn't like foreigners, vaccination or big government.

Extreme Left doesn't like foreign ownership, chemicals or big business.

The two extremes are far more similar than either would like to admit.

The left do like foreign ownership as it was Gough Whitlam who signed Australia up to it with the Lima Declaration and started the great Australian deal off

 

[rederob]

It’s the basics of communism
Posts about lock downs are either deleted or receive a knock on the door from the police

The internet was not around when Marx espoused the principles of communism. Furthermore, you have confused totalitarianism with communism. Marx actually advocated a free press, arguing in 1842 that restrictions like censorship were instituted by the bourgeois elite.

The left do like foreign ownership as it was Gough Whitlam who signed Australia up to it with the Lima Declaration and started the great Australian deal off

I suspect you know as much about the Lima Declaration as you do about communism. The Lima declaration was about increasing the share of industrial production of undeveloped nations to 25% by 2000. It had zip to do with foreign ownership, but a lot to do with "exploitation". Some 45 years later little has changed in the latter regard.

 

[Smurf1976]

The Lima declaration was about increasing the share of industrial production of undeveloped nations to 25% by 2000. It had zip to do with foreign ownership, but a lot to do with "exploitation". Some 45 years later little has changed in the latter regard.

The Lima declaration is a classic case of good intentions but lack of foresight.

Turned Australia from a manufacturing nation to one that focuses on resource extraction, most notably iron ore and fossil fuels.

Undeniably good for some previously undeveloped countries.

Terribly bad for the environment. CO2 emissions would almost certainly be far lower today without it.

 

[SirRumpole]

The Lima declaration is a classic case of good intentions but lack of foresight.

Turned Australia from a manufacturing nation to one that focuses on resource extraction, most notably iron ore and fossil fuels.

Undeniably good for some previously undeveloped countries.

Terribly bad for the environment. CO2 emissions would almost certainly be far lower today without it.

As @rederob pointed out, people are still being exploited for political and commercial gain. Although the Chinese have improved their wealth levels a lot of the proceeds of their industry is being taken away and turned into weapons and corruption is rife so a few people are making a lot of money while the majority just gets by.

It's time for a rethink and maybe the West should start charging tariffs that equate to the difference between our average wages and those in the countries whose products we buy. At least that may force decent wages being paid to the people who produce the goods.

 

[basilio]

Historical practical solutions to this difficult problem

 

[rederob]

The Lima declaration is a classic case of good intentions but lack of foresight.

Turned Australia from a manufacturing nation to one that focuses on resource extraction, most notably iron ore and fossil fuels.

Undeniably good for some previously undeveloped countries.

Terribly bad for the environment. CO2 emissions would almost certainly be far lower today without it.

Australia did not act on the Lima declaration.
I think you have got the wrong stick.

 

[sptrawler]

Australia did not act on the Lima declaration.

Well then why sign up to it, in the first place? Just another brain fart, or a publicity stunt maybe?

I know I shouldn't bite and I know how this will end up, but I just can't help myself. ?