The West has lost its freedom of speech

[moXJO]

I'm not going around in circles again as the only way it would be resolved would be in court.
Needless to say, I find it comical that the Qantas ceo who kicked up the stink and whom RA was so desperate to appease by kicking off this whole saga. Ended up dropping sponsorship anyway.

So RA:
Lost the payout.
Fired their best player.
Fired their CEO.
Lost their main sponsor.
Put half the team offside.
Lost half the fan base.
And were last year looking at insolvency.

Funny stuff....

 

[IFocus]

Stuff the employers values, individuals are allowed to have their own values in a free society and to express those values outside the workplace without fear of retaliation. This is the point that you continually fail to understand.

If an employee was sacked for expressing political opinions that differ from their employer there would justifiably be outrage , but because you disagree with what Folau said your moral indignation blinds you to the fact that he has a right to say what he did.

Employers have no right to dictate moral behaviour , only behaviour that involves the job the employees were employed to do.

Afraid that's is actually the case Rump, my last job the HR department almost doubled and pretty much did what you are advocating against and they were an ultra right wing conservative American mob.

 

[SirRumpole]

Laws protecting freedom of speech at unis should be used to challenge climate science, Alan Tudge says​

A subtle case of hypocrisy in Tudge's reaction.

Just shows how intolerant some people can be to simple questions.

Laws protecting freedom of speech at unis should be used to challenge climate science, Alan Tudge says - triple j

"Of course academics should be able to challenge all science which is going on."

www.abc.net.au

 

[rederob]

I'm not going around in circles again as the only way it would be resolved would be in court.
Needless to say, I find it comical that the Qantas ceo who kicked up the stink and whom RA was so desperate to appease by kicking off this whole saga. Ended up dropping sponsorship anyway.

So RA:
Lost the payout.
Fired their best player.
Fired their CEO.
Lost their main sponsor.
Put half the team offside.
Lost half the fan base.
And were last year looking at insolvency.

Funny stuff....

According to Folau this was God's will .

 

[sptrawler]

According to Folau this was God's will .

Also don't forget, the perpatrators were going to be sent to a fictitious place, I mean the shear horror of being sent to "hell" must have given everyone nightmares.

I'm surprised Raylene and the gang, didn't ask for Folau to jailed, for threating an act of terror. ?

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting story out of Cambridge university.

Don’t mention the war: why John Cleese pre-emptively cancelled himself

A Cambridge University cancel culture row has sparked a new discussion about wokeness, offence and free speech.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
There are many more important things going on in the world, but it is worth noting that we seem to have moved to a post-cancellation phase, best described as pre-emptive self-cancellation.

John Cleese, a comedy god whose surname was originally “Cheese” (his father changed it because he deemed it embarrassing), withdrew from a speaking event last week, saying he wanted to “cancel” himself before someone did it for him.
Cleese was referring to the contemporary version of cancellation, where a person – usually with a public profile – is the subject of a social media pile-on for a transgression of morality or taste. They may be dropped by their publisher, network or advertisers. Their reputation may be badly damaged and they may lose work.
The man who gave us Basil Fawlty had been invited to speak at his alma mater, Cambridge University, but pulled out after the student union decided to “blacklist” the art historian Andrew Graham-Dixon. The historian had offended students when he performed a Hitler impersonation during a debate on the question of whether good taste exists.

Cleese pointed out that he had done a Hitler impression, too (you could say his career was made on it). The actor tweeted: “I apologise to anyone at Cambridge who was hoping to talk with me, but perhaps some of you can find a venue where woke rules do not apply.”

Graham-Dixon had debated the affirmative case. He was trying to make the point that good taste exists because bad taste does, and bad taste is rooted in bad morals. Being an art historian, he made interesting points about how Hitler hated modern art, and the Nazis ripped Cubist and abstract works off gallery walls. The Nazis saw those forms of art as connected with gay, Jewish and African people, according to Graham-Dixon, so they annihilated the art before moving on to annihilating the people themselves.
I watched the speech. I struggle to see how anyone could have seen anything he said as endorsing Hitler, but the point failed to land. Graham-Dixon has since apologised, and said that he was trying “to underline the utterly evil nature of Hitler and his regime”.

For anyone who has ever attended a university debate, where precocity so often outweighs poise, it is hardly surprising that one of the speeches was a bit rubbish. But afterwards, the backlash began.

Cambridge Union president Keir Bradwell – who, it is worth noting, is only 21 – issued an apology, saying he should have intervened at the time.

“We will create a blacklist of speakers never to be invited back, and we will share it with other unions, too. Andrew will be on that list,” Bradwell said.
But then, perhaps realising what a massive own-goal it was to put potential speakers in fear of a blacklisting, Bradwell did a U-turn. He scrapped the blacklist, and said: “If there is a dichotomy between free speech and offence, I would defend free speech. I don’t want to create an impression that the union is against free speech.” It may be too late for that.

But the whole exercise underlines how hard it is, even for the younger generation, to navigate the etiquette they have helped create. If you elevate the taking of offence to the ultimate guiding principle, people will begin to operate out of fear of censure. That fear can impede creativity, especially in those who lack cultural power (which Cleese obviously does not).
It also makes it difficult to test your ideas in opposition to others’, something a university debating society should probably adopt as a priority.

 

[SirRumpole]

I demand Cleese and the extant Pythons be cancelled from Australia for this sketch, Bruce.

 

[qldfrog]

While Europe is following the US deconstruction mission with Ukraine, it's committing suicide in another way:

Europe's Twilight: Christianity Declines, Islam Rises

Comparing only the weekly frequency of Friday prayers in the mosque and Sunday Mass in the church, the future is clear: 65% of practicing Catholics [in France] are over 50 years old. By contrast, 73% of practicing Muslims are under the age of 50. In an

www.gatestoneinstitute.org

 

[Smurf1976]

While Europe is following the US deconstruction mission with Ukraine, it's committing suicide in another way:

Personally I'd gladly be rid of religion.

All of it.

It's one of the greatest causes of human misery throughout history. It might work in theory, and I'll concede that Christianity does have some lofty ideals, but the whole concept has a shocking track record when it comes to implementation.

If others wish to follow it then I accept their right to do so provided nobody who isn't a consenting adult is in any way involved. It's in the same category as sex - leave the kids and animals right out of it and let the adults be there only of their own free will, free to walk out at any time.

 

[qldfrog]

Personally I'd gladly be rid of religion.

All of it.

It's one of the greatest causes of human misery throughout history. It might work in theory, and I'll concede that Christianity does have some lofty ideals, but the whole concept has a shocking track record when it comes to implementation.

If others wish to follow it then I accept their right to do so provided nobody who isn't a consenting adult is in any way involved. It's in the same category as sex - leave the kids and animals right out of it and let the adults be there only of their own free will, free to walk out at any time.

I am fully agnostic but my experience in life and travel vastly favour the Judeo-Christian template to the green plague, and while the woke and Reset narrative focus on puny geopolitical games against Russia, or even China, and global warming BS, our western real values are rotten from the inside.. unless anyone see Kabul, Mali or Pakistan as a model?
The European collapse that is now to be completed within a generation,have a pause,...outside sentimental aspect from my background and destruction of world iconic monuments,has serious implications in economy,world power,. And now safety for the naive foreign tourists heading this way like lambs to the slaughter ,at best to lose their money in puny street crime,at worst to be physically hurt, or murdered.

 

[qldfrog]

Personally I'd gladly be rid of religion.

All of it.

It's one of the greatest causes of human misery throughout history. It might work in theory, and I'll concede that Christianity does have some lofty ideals, but the whole concept has a shocking track record when it comes to implementation.

If others wish to follow it then I accept their right to do so provided nobody who isn't a consenting adult is in any way involved. It's in the same category as sex - leave the kids and animals right out of it and let the adults be there only of their own free will, free to walk out at any time.

On your last point, it is pretty clear there is not much free will left if that will does not follow the 7th century book in many European cities or suburbs.Ask women or lgbtxxx there.
My position against islam is foremost that aspect.as you, if adults want to bang their head on the floor to be bruised, other chanting to Krishna,Hail mary or yave, i could not care less since the inquisition is gone, great.
But be considered a non human, slaughtered..stabbed in the street or raped under the pretext that i do not worship their book.no thanks.
Ask saldam Rushdie or the thousands killed in Europe each year in complete silence and submissions.
Anyway, wanted to put a few figures here for aussies to realise, while we still can.

 

[Smurf1976]

I am fully agnostic but my experience in life and travel vastly favour the Judeo-Christian template to the green plague, and while the woke and Reset narrative focus on puny geopolitical games against Russia, or even China, and global warming BS, our western real values are rotten from the inside.. unless anyone see Kabul, Mali or Pakistan as a model?

Common sense tells me that changing the composition of the earth's atmosphere seems like a dangerous experiment given uncertain consequences and the impracticability of reversing the change.

For the rest though well yeah, the West needs a damn good look at itself because we're on the road to oblivion at the moment and suffice to say when that day comes, the earth's climate will be the least of anyone's concerns.

 

[qldfrog]

Common sense tells me that changing the composition of the earth's atmosphere seems like a dangerous experiment given uncertain consequences and the impracticability of reversing the change.

For the rest though well yeah, the West needs a damn good look at itself because we're on the road to oblivion at the moment and suffice to say when that day comes, the earth's climate will be the least of anyone's concerns.

It seems to me that CO2 emissions are not really considered in Ukraine now, or even Europe burning coal like mad because of the sanctions while gas is flaring in Russia yet i thought we were all in it together.. priorities indeed.and maybe curbing world population in the last 30-40y since global warming was discussed could have helped more than building Teslas..but far less money to be made.....and green book not agreeing...
Anyway interlude over, back to the very choppy seas of the ASX

 

[wayneL]

Down the slippery slope we go:

Crown Prosecution Service Says it is “No Longer Appropriate” to Quote Some Passages From the Bible in Public

A statement by the U.K.’s main prosecution service says it is “no longer appropriate” to read parts of the Bible

dailysceptic.org

 

[sptrawler]

Didn't know which thread to put this in, so here will do.
I see this guy has finally been sorted out.

Andrew Thorburn to step down from all board roles

The short-lived Essendon chief executive and former banker plans to spend more time with his family in 2023.

www.smh.com.au

Short-lived Essendon Football Club chief executive Andrew Thorburn will quit all of his board jobs, including his role as the chairman of the City on a Hill church, amid ongoing controversy about the beliefs of the church.
The former National Australia Bank boss has made the decision after months of backlash about the church’s conservative views, which led to him resigning as the club’s CEO just one day after his appointment.

 

[sptrawler]

Messy, messy, messy.

Bombers settle with Thorburn over ex-CEO’s exit

Essendon have come to a settlement with their short-lived former CEO Andrew Thorburn, apologising to the ex-NAB chief and donating an undisclosed amount to an ethics institute.

www.theage.com.au

From the article:
Essendon have come to a settlement with their short-lived former CEO Andrew Thorburn, apologising to the ex-NAB chief and donating an undisclosed amount to an ethics institute.
The Bombers announced the agreement on Tuesday afternoon. Thorburn will not receive any money from the club.
Thorburn resigned in October after a day in the job when the Bombers gave him the choice between keeping his role as chairman of City on a Hill church or remaining Essendon CEO.
Thorburn’s church’s views on social issues and inclusion had not been the issue for the club, but holding the leadership position of the church was deemed untenable if he were to be CEO of Essendon.

“The board made clear that, despite these not being views that Andrew Thorburn has expressed personally and that were also made prior to him taking up his role as chairman, he couldn’t continue to serve in his dual roles at the Essendon Football Club and as chairman of City on the Hill,” club president David Barham said when Thorburn resigned.
Essendon and Thorburn released a joint statement on Tuesday announcing that their dispute had been resolved.
“A critical element of this resolution is to enable a wider community conversation on the importance of freedom of conscience, religion and belief and how to have respectful dialogue between people with different views and perspectives,” the statement read.

“All people should be respected and welcomed in workplaces and community organisations. No one should have to choose between their faith or sexuality, and their employment. Further, everyone should be able to openly express their personal position, in a respectful way, without fear and still feel that they belong. Genuine diversity and inclusion also includes people of faith.
“The club acknowledges that the events of October [Thorburn’s appointment and departure] should have been handled better and apologises for the impact it had on Mr Thorburn, his family and others.

“Both parties consider that elements of the public commentary at the time were extreme and wrong and counter-productive to the respectful community dialogue they agree is critical.
Thorburn said when he parted with Essendon that his concern was not about money but principle and that freedom of religion, conscience, thought and association were explicitly recognised as human rights under Victorian law.
“It is troubling that faith or association with a church, mosque, synagogue or temple could render a person immediately unsuited to holding a particular role,” Thorburn said in a statement at the time.
“That is a dangerous idea, one that will only reduce tolerance for others and diversity of thought and participation in our community and workplaces.”

As part of the confidential settlement Thorburn has agreed to drop all legal action.
Before his appointment, Thorburn had presided over a review, with Ernst & Young, of the club’s football operations, administration and culture.

 

[Smurf1976]

“It is troubling that faith or association with a church, mosque, synagogue or temple could render a person immediately unsuited to holding a particular role,” Thorburn said in a statement at the time.
“That is a dangerous idea, one that will only reduce tolerance for others and diversity of thought and participation in our community and workplaces.”

Never mind that religious organisations have been reluctant to employ staff who are atheists, or even just something like being openly gay, since forever.

This concept works in both directions....

 

[sptrawler]

Never mind that religious organisations have been reluctant to employ staff who are atheists, or even just something like being openly gay, since forever.

This concept works in both directions....

Absolutely, but actively discriminating against them, for their discrimination is just as weird.
You can't cry exclusion, on the grounds of inclusion, it is just stupid.
There has to be a degree of common sense in this whole debate IMO.

 

[qldfrog]

Free speech:

Opinion | The Campaign to Re-Educate Jordan Peterson

For speaking his mind, the psychologist could lose his license.

www.wsj.com

And we stared at China and PolPot and their reeducation camps

 

[SirRumpole]

Free speech:

Opinion | The Campaign to Re-Educate Jordan Peterson

For speaking his mind, the psychologist could lose his license.

www.wsj.com

And we stared at China and PolPot and their reeducation camps

Unfortunately the article is paywalled, but it looks like another attempt at "cancellation" of an individual for daring to oppose the wokeness permeating our society.

I don't know much about what JP is about, it seems he has become more political recently, but let's have all non violent views aired and discussed like sensible people without all these attack the man not the ball tactics.