The West has lost its freedom of speech

[rederob]

That's what I've been saying all along !

Seriously?
You have banged on about rights.
Our court system upholds laws (which incorporate rights) and you have repeatedly claimed the opposite.
Your example merely showed the court system in operation.

 

[basilio]

From the pen of the most viewed and arguably influential opinion writer in Australia.
Freedom of Speech in its full glory.

From Bolts blog
Dan Andrews goes all China on Virus Towers
We now know what it's like to live in a Chinese dictatorship. Premier Daniel Andrews has locked up 3000 residents in nine Melbourne public housing towers. And he's warned them : get tested or stay longer than five days in your arbitrary home imprisonment.

Indefinite imprisonment, for committing no crime.

Imprisonment sanctioned by no court.

 

[SirRumpole]

From the pen of the most viewed and arguably influential opinion writer in Australia.
Freedom of Speech in its full glory.

From Bolts blog
Dan Andrews goes all China on Virus Towers
We now know what it's like to live in a Chinese dictatorship. Premier Daniel Andrews has locked up 3000 residents in nine Melbourne public housing towers. And he's warned them : get tested or stay longer than five days in your arbitrary home imprisonment.

Indefinite imprisonment, for committing no crime.

Imprisonment sanctioned by no court.

I fully agree with what Andrews has done. This is an EMERGENCY. No one should get out of those towers until they test negative. Better to inconvenience a few that infect many.

Not sure why this is in a "Freedon of Speech" thread.

 

[sptrawler]

I fully agree with what Andrews has done. This is an EMERGENCY. No one should get out of those towers until they test negative. Better to inconvenience a few that infect many.

Not sure why this is in a "Freedon of Speech" thread.

Probably didnt want to clutter the Trump thread.

 

[wayneL]

I fully agree with what Andrews has done. This is an EMERGENCY. No one should get out of those towers until they test negative. Better to inconvenience a few that infect many.

Not sure why this is in a "Freedon of Speech" thread.

I think we should do this for every virus...

 

[basilio]

I fully agree with what Andrews has done. This is an EMERGENCY. No one should get out of those towers until they test negative. Better to inconvenience a few that infect many.

Not sure why this is in a "Freedon of Speech" thread.

Indeed. And allowing one of the most influential conservative journalists to berate the government for taking a step to protect the community makes a point about Free Speech being well and truly free in Australia.

Then comes the question of how that free speech impacts on the rest of the community - particularly if enough people arc up and demand their right to move without restriction " because closing the Towers is just a commie plot"

 

[Klogg]

Indeed. And allowing one of the most influential conservative journalists to berate the government for taking a step to protect the community makes a point about Free Speech being well and truly free in Australia.

Then comes the question of how that free speech impacts on the rest of the community - particularly if enough people arc up and demand their right to move without restriction " because closing the Towers is just a commie plot"

This is ludicrous. We've adopted this idea that coronavirus suppression is in everyones interest, so the government can just lock people down whenever they see fit.

We assume that death is the thing we wish to avoid most, but if economic armageddon ensues, that will prove a much worse outcome to the 99%+ who would have surived the pandemic anyway.


Closing the towers is not a commie plot, it's not right or left. I just view it as authoritarian and an intrusion of individual liberty. Go away, I want my freedom.

 

[SirRumpole]

This is ludicrous. We've adopted this idea that coronavirus suppression is in everyones interest, so the government can just lock people down whenever they see fit.

We assume that death is the thing we wish to avoid most, but if economic armageddon ensues, that will prove a much worse outcome to the 99%+ who would have surived the pandemic anyway.


Closing the towers is not a commie plot, it's not right or left. I just view it as authoritarian and an intrusion of individual liberty. Go away, I want my freedom.

So you are a "let it rip" advocate ?

Thank God you are not in charge of the country.

 

[Klogg]

So you are a "let it rip" advocate ?

Thank God you are not in charge of the country.

No, not 'let it rip'

Find those that are vulnerable, and protect them until a vaccine is available. The rest of the country can continue to live as they see fit.

Pretty much what Sweden is doing. They've not been perfect, but it's the most considered, balanced approach to date.

 

[Klogg]

Not to mention, not a single government has advised its citizens on how to strengthen your immune system. Nothing on exercise, eating well, getting enough sleep - as if it's all irrelevant.

Instead we assume the government has all the answers and the individual should just comply with the restrictions placed upon them.

 

[SirRumpole]

Sweden
Coronavirus Cases:
71,419
Deaths:
5,420
Recovered:
N/A
Projections
Active Cases
57,702
Currently Infected Patients
57,578 (100%)
in Mild Condition

124 (0%)
Serious or Critical

Sweden population 10.3 million.

Sweden's unemployment seems to be no better than ours despite all those deaths.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...te-climbs-to-7-9-amid-brewing-political-storm

 

[Klogg]

Sweden
Coronavirus Cases:
71,419
Deaths:
5,420
Recovered:
N/A
Projections
Active Cases
57,702
Currently Infected Patients
57,578 (100%)
in Mild Condition

124 (0%)
Serious or Critical

Sweden population 10.3 million.

Sweden's unemployment seems to be no better than ours despite all those deaths.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...te-climbs-to-7-9-amid-brewing-political-storm

Denmark locked down:

Norway locked down:

Sweden didn't really lock down:

Their GDP grew, whilst neighbouring economies tanked.

2% of GDP for Sweden is 11bn.

Sweden deaths per million: 537
Denmark deaths per million: 105
Norway deaths per million: 46

Lets pretend Sweden could have reduced their deaths per million by ~450, but GDP went down 2%. Given a population of 10.23m, that's 4,600 lives saved at the cost of 11bn krona.

Now consider the average life expectancy is 82.3 years (google).

Also consider the median age of death is > 80 years. But I'll be generous and use 80 years in my calculations:

(this link: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/)

At 2.3 years per person, that's 10,580 years of life saved, at a cost to GDP of 11bn krona. That's a cost of over 1m krona per year of human life.

Does that not seem an extremely unreasonable price to pay, given it can spread again quite easily once you open, and you pay the same cost?

 

[IFocus]

I think it will be some time before the Sweden experiment will be able to be annualised.

A couple of things, how many other countries have a Swedish culture? who pays 50% tax rates etc for starters, they have a much higher cooperation rate than almost anyone what the Swedes accept and other counties are poles apart.

I hope it works out for them but the recoveries in neighbouring countries seems to be happening unlike Sweden.

 

[Klogg]

Not

I think it will be some time before the Sweden experiment will be able to be annualised.

A couple of things, how many other countries have a Swedish culture? who pays 50% tax rates etc for starters, they have a much higher cooperation rate than almost anyone what the Swedes accept and other counties are poles apart.

I hope it works out for them but the recoveries in neighbouring countries seems to be happening unlike Sweden.

Not really. A vaccine will be delivered at best within a year.
That 2% differential will remain unless other economies completely remove lockdowns. Not to mention that -2% figure has only one of three months included in lockdown.
A 5% figure would be more accurate to be honest.

Offsetting that will be number of deaths of course. But the current rate (deaths/costs) seems disproportionately high wouldnt you say?

As for tax rates, they're neither here nor there. Overall economic activity has been impacted, and we're measuring total cost, not just government cost

 

[moXJO]

"Problematic books" huh.

That's where we are leading people now?
Ahh well get those bonfires ready and get your fascist on.

 

[IFocus]

Not

Not really. A vaccine will be delivered at best within a year.
That 2% differential will remain unless other economies completely remove lockdowns. Not to mention that -2% figure has only one of three months included in lockdown.
A 5% figure would be more accurate to be honest.

Offsetting that will be number of deaths of course. But the current rate (deaths/costs) seems disproportionately high wouldnt you say?

As for tax rates, they're neither here nor there. Overall economic activity has been impacted, and we're measuring total cost, not just government cost

A vaccine remains a risk its not a given and I take your point in regards to the gap between economy's but if Sweden's infection rate remains higher than others their boarders will be closed to the nations where the virus is very low that will impact.

The tax rate was an example of their culture which doesn't exist else where.

Still it will be some time before proper analysis will reveal what works best.

 

[dutchie]

High School Teacher in Michigan Fired for Saying 'Trump Is Our President' on Social Media

https://pjmedia.com/

 

[sptrawler]

This is along the same lines of freedom of speach and a politically correct society we are developing and the underlying problem with a lot of today's issues IMO.
It is an interesting article and more so because it said by Ita Buttrose.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...2-p55ekh.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true.
From the article:
However, she said it was the makeup of the workforce that had most radically changed, particularly the demands of millennials.

"What does change is the expectations of staff, that's where the change occurs," Buttrose said. "The younger workers like more transparency."

Buttrose said this was in stark contrast to when she was a journalist, when she said not hearing from proprietors like Sir Frank Packer and bosses was a good thing because "no news means good news".

"But it seems to me that today's younger workers, they need much more reassurance and they need to be thanked, which is something many companies don't do.


"They're very keen on being thanked and they almost need hugging – that's before COVID of course, we can't hug anymore – but they almost need hugging.

"You have to understand that they seem to lack the resilience that I remember from my younger days," Buttrose, now 78, said.

She added that resilience seemed to be in "short supply" worldwide.

"Whether that's because of bad parenting, I don't know, and I don't want to go down that path and offend young parents but I am an older parent, and we older parents have very set views about resilience and, you know, I think it's something we need to foster in everybody from a very young age."

 

[SirRumpole]

This is along the same lines of freedom of speach and a politically correct society we are developing and the underlying problem with a lot of today's issues IMO.
It is an interesting article and more so because it said by Ita Buttrose.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...2-p55ekh.html?js-chunk-not-found-refresh=true.
From the article:
However, she said it was the makeup of the workforce that had most radically changed, particularly the demands of millennials.

"What does change is the expectations of staff, that's where the change occurs," Buttrose said. "The younger workers like more transparency."

Buttrose said this was in stark contrast to when she was a journalist, when she said not hearing from proprietors like Sir Frank Packer and bosses was a good thing because "no news means good news".

"But it seems to me that today's younger workers, they need much more reassurance and they need to be thanked, which is something many companies don't do.


"They're very keen on being thanked and they almost need hugging – that's before COVID of course, we can't hug anymore – but they almost need hugging.

"You have to understand that they seem to lack the resilience that I remember from my younger days," Buttrose, now 78, said.

She added that resilience seemed to be in "short supply" worldwide.

"Whether that's because of bad parenting, I don't know, and I don't want to go down that path and offend young parents but I am an older parent, and we older parents have very set views about resilience and, you know, I think it's something we need to foster in everybody from a very young age."

I think everyone needs to know what the boss thinks about how they are doing their jobs, good or bad.

I'm sure that progressive companies would have a regular evaluation, face to face between and employee and their supervisor and not just leave them in the dark.

But it will be interesting to see how many SJW's jump on Ita for being mean and nasty to a "vulnerable" section of our society.

 

[Smurf1976]

However, she said it was the makeup of the workforce that had most radically changed, particularly the demands of millennials.

"What does change is the expectations of staff, that's where the change occurs," Buttrose said. "The younger workers like more transparency."

It partly comes from the oldies too.

They're mostly the ones who many years ago decided that large organisations need formalised performance appraisals, effectively a forced chat between a worker and their immediate supervisor, and that casual feedback on an "as needed" basis wasn't sufficient.

If the boss is doing their job then any negative feedback required will already have been given such that the appraisal ends up as a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" praising session in practice. Unless the worker is truly terrible then the boss notes only good things about them, the worker writes something nice about their boss in return and it goes up to the next level of management who signs it.

Plenty of large organisations both private and government have some version of that system.