Interesting. These many Muslims who confide in you that they want to update their "holy scripture" are playing a dangerous game. Any Muslim who thinks they can update, rewrite or revise the quran ("the word of god") would be considered an apostate.
wiki
Rejecting aspects of a particular religion, ideally also offering a rational explanation for having formed such an opinion, would be far more palatable. Many Muslims that I know, as well as Jews and Christians, are only too willing to accept criticism and agree that their respective "Holy Scripture" is in dire need of an update.
Interesting. These many Muslims who confide in you that they want to update their "holy scripture" are playing a dangerous game. Any Muslim who thinks they can update, rewrite or revise the quran ("the word of god") would be considered an apostate.
wiki
PS: Bintang, of course I'm talking about educated people here in Australia, not Indonesia or any other Islamiccountry. That's because this topic is about freedom of speech in the West.
CNN’s Jim Clancy resigns after controversial Israel tweets
Veteran anchor steps down after mocking pro-Israel tweeters on a thread discussing the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris.
Veteran CNN anchor Jim Clancy stepped down on Friday, one week after a series of Twitter posts in which he mocked pro-Israel tweeters on a thread discussing the Charlie Hebdo massacre.
Neither CNN nor Jim Clancy gave a reason for his departure, which was reported by AdWeek. Clancy had worked at CNN for 34 years.
Although Clancy’s Twitter account no longer existed as of Thursday, the tweets have been preserved on a number of websites, including Twitchy and Mediaite, and by Tablet journalist Yair Rosenberg.
On January 7, Clancy posted a tweet arguing that the cartoons posted by the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo, which was attacked last week by Islamist gunmen who killed 12, did not mock the Muslim prophet Muhammad.
“The cartoons NEVER mocked the Prophet,” he wrote. “They mocked how the COWARDS tried to distort his word. Pay attention.”
Challenged on the accuracy of the statement by Oren Kessler, a deputy director of research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, Clancy tweeted, “Hasbara?,” a Hebrew term used to describe public relations efforts by the Israeli government.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.637572?utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social
DB008, do you understand that story cause I sure don't? Here is something a bit easier to understand.
View attachment 61193
Maybe the difference is that I can engage with people to the point where we discuss ideas rather than ideologies. For me, it is more important how educated individuals think about doctrines, than to read the general summary in a wiki article.
Anyone who expresses these thoughts and doubts about the quran to a kafir obviously cannot be a muslim. You can't be a muslim in name only without subscribing to all the bull$hit that goes with it.
DB008, do you understand that story cause I sure don't?
I agree and therefore if they are not muslims they also cannot be ‘moderate muslims' because in fact there is no such thing.
If so-called ‘moderate’ moslems in the West ‘hold back’ and fail to exercise freedom of speech within their own muslim communities to express views which conflict with Islamic doctrine and teaching then they are not moderating anything and should not be called ‘moderate’.
They cannot be muslim and moderate at the same time. It’s a bit like you cannot be early and late at the same time. For example, if the early worm ‘held back’ and stayed in bed waiting for the early bird to finish breakfast then the adjective ‘early’ is not applicable to either the worm or the bird.
Teacher Worm: Why are you late?
Pupil Worm: Sorry teacher, I was waiting for the bird to finish breakfast
Teacher Bird: Why are you late?
Pupil Bird: Sorry teacher, I was finishing my breakfast.
Earlier today, I exposed as circular reasoning the "proof" for God's existence or the Qur'an being Allah's word. Your and Calli's redefinition of Muslim appears to me as following a similar fallacy. The essence of what you're saying is "All Muslims are bad radicals; anyone who has been brought up a Muslim and is not bad and radical, can no longer be called a Muslim. Therefore, all Muslims are bad radicals. q.e.d."
. The essence of what you're saying is "All Muslims are bad radicals; anyone who has been brought up a Muslim and is not bad and radical, can no longer be called a Muslim. Therefore, all Muslims are bad radicals. q.e.d."
The essence of what you're saying is "All Muslims are bad radicals; anyone who has been brought up a Muslim and is not bad and radical, can no longer be called a Muslim. Therefore, all Muslims are bad radicals. q.e.d."
It is a common feature of posters whose arguments are going up a blind alley to ascribe this sort of twisted inference to the statements of those who do not agree with them.
None of the above nonsense bears any relationship to anything I have said...and you know it. It is a deliberate distortion.
Perhaps pixel, you would be pleased to know that Geert Wilder’s frequently states that there are many moderate muslims:
"Of course – I repeat it wherever I go – of course, there are many moderate Muslims. I believe in moderate people, but I do not believe in a moderate Islam. There is only one Islam – the Islam of the Koran, the Hadith and the life of Muhammad, who was a terrorist and a warlord. But even though there are many moderate Muslims, it is wrong to think that the moderates are a majority. They are not."
However, I think he is being too congenial with his language and I disagree with him. Why? Because if moderate Islam does not exist neither do moderate muslims exist. In other words under Islam there can only be muslims, ex-muslims (apostates) and those who have never been muslims (kafirs).
A positive, very optimistic, look at your point of view is that you dislike Islam (and Muslims).
what are you really doing? Doing the same loathsome thing you think shouldn't be done.
Yes, a monumental difference that so many fail to see or don't want to see. Ricky Gervais puts it in terms even the dumbest should understand.......
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Iuutzu, Congratulations! Within your diatribe against me you managed to get one thing correct. Yes, I hate Islam. But I do not hate muslims and in fact I have many muslim friends.
I try very hard myself to avoid personally attacking the integrity of people on this forum. Sometimes I am sarcastic and sometimes I try to be humorous. If I slip up and do something worse than that I will apologise but I will not apologise for having opinions with which someone else disagrees.
I am happy to maintain discussion with you for as long as you can remain civil but if you direct another personal attack at me I will follow the lead of some others on this forum and put you on ignore.
Yes, a monumental difference that so many fail to see or don't want to see. Ricky Gervais puts it in terms even the dumbest should understand.......
View attachment 61197
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