The Voice

[orr]

Pssst.

Hey.

You fellas come closer.

Albo set up the Referendum on The Voice to fail.

The year 2023 has headlines so guaranteed to convince most Queenslanders to vote NO that a high charging Advertising outfit would be hard put to compete.

Tonight at Mackay airport, a city which rarely returns a win for the ALP federally.



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gg

Hey GG
That's the Brisbane named after Thomas Brisbane, the one time Governor of New South Wales.
Long may Queenslands Capital live under the name of a New South Wales Governor.
It's like Waterloo; but in reverse.

 

[JohnDe]

It’s not Mundines quote actually has nothing to do with him.

It’s a very well known book…sigh

Why did you mention him?

I don't know I think the answer will be different for all here is a link from a Mundine for an insight to some thinking not saying its for all​

​

https://www.ncca.org.au/natsiec/162-poor-fellow-my-country-ces-talk-2/file​

And now referring to the fiction novel 'Poor Fellow My Country', published in 1977 and set in the 1930's and 40's?

 

[Belli]

It’s not Mundines quote actually has nothing to do with him.

It’s a very well known book…sigh

Yes. Xavier Herbert wrote well. An absorbing work at a number of levels. Have re-read a few times. I had a look at the edition I have. Bought it in 1979. It was first published in 1975 not 1977. Won the Miles Franklin Literary award in 1976.

 

[JohnDe]

Yes. Xavier Herbert wrote well. An absorbing work at a number of levels. Have re-read a few times. I had a look at the edition I have. Bought it in 1979. It was first published in 1975 not 1977. Won the Miles Franklin Literary award in 1976.

Yes, sorry it was 1976. A great work of fiction about early 20th century Australia and its people.

It's a shame that iFocus first used the reference using the discredited Goerge Mundine's works.

 

[SirRumpole]

That's another false statement from you!
There was a requirement to consult and this was given short shrift by the government of the day.

If you had read anything and understood it you would stop making rubbish comments about the Voice.

Not as frightening as wilful ignorance displayed in this thread.

Where have you been, I missed you.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Hey GG
That's the Brisbane named after Thomas Brisbane, the one time Governor of New South Wales.
Long may Queenslands Capital live under the name of a New South Wales Governor.
It's like Waterloo; but in reverse.

I thought it was a flight to China.

 

[sptrawler]

I still cant see the logics behind a recognition in the constitution and that is probably the root cause for the trepidation.

There is a Federal minister and ministry for aboriginal affairs, there is a State minister for aboriginal affairs, they have been well funded and now we are saying the aboriginals have not got a voice.
Yet there are daily examples of them actually having a very effective voice, with land rights, with banning the climbing of Uluru, with the outrage against Rio for mining above a cave (Juukan Gorge).

So to say they don't have a voice doesn't quite resonate, but it is causing a lot of diversion, from some very serious economic issues.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out, it may well be master stroke or a massive stuff up, time will tell.
I certainly hope Albo has played it well, or he has put the Aboriginal plight back a long way IMO.

 

[wayneL]

I still cant see the logics behind a recognition in the constitution and that is probably the root cause for the trepidation.

There is a Federal minister and ministry for aboriginal affairs, there is a State minister for aboriginal affairs, they have been well funded and now we are saying the aboriginals have not got a voice.
Yet there are daily examples of them actually having a very effective voice, with land rights, with banning the climbing of Uluru, with the outrage against Rio for mining above a cave (Juukan Gorge).

So to say they don't have a voice doesn't quite resonate, but it is causing a lot of diversion, from some very serious economic issues.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out, it may well be master stroke or a massive stuff up, time will tell.
I certainly hope Albo has played it well, or he has put the Aboriginal plight back a long way IMO.

Albo can't take all the credit, he's just not that smart, but he, along with all the other bad faith actors have probably destroyed any chances of true reconciliation for generations.

Whether Australia is stupid enough to vote yes or not, we will be more divided than ever for decades.

Job well done, Labor.

 

[sptrawler]

Albo can't take all the credit, he's just not that smart, but he, along with all the other bad faith actors have probably destroyed any chances of true reconciliation for generations.

Whether Australia is stupid enough to vote yes or not, we will be more divided than ever for decades.

Job well done, Labor.

The last thing Albo isn't is smart, he hasn't survived this long in politics, with no charisma and a speech impediment and risen to PM if he wasn't smart.
Trust me Albo is smart, just has way too many things happening at the same time and not many are making sense.
Unless some start and make sense the voters will revolt badly, the cheaper power is starting to look like an after pay app, where the power price goes up and the Government uses your tax to give it back to you, so you can pay your power bill.
We have taxpayers paying paying coal miners to dig up coal and sell it to overseas owned coal generators, so that we keep them going, because the renewable revolution isn't happening.
It is all becoming a big juicy brain fart, it wont smell nice in the end.
Someone in Government needs to just stop flying around like a fart in a bottle and just settle down and take one issue at a time IMO.

 

[wayneL]

The last thing Albo isn't is smart, he hasn't survived this long in politics, with no charisma and a speech impediment and risen to PM if he wasn't smart.
Trust me Albo is smart, just has way too many things happening at the same time and not many are making sense.
Unless some start and make sense the voters will revolt badly, the cheaper power is starting to look like an after pay app, where the power price goes up and the Government uses your tax to give it back to you, so you can pay your power bill.
We have taxpayers paying paying coal miners to dig up coal and sell it to overseas owned coal generators, so that we keep them going, because the renewable revolution isn't happening.
It is all becoming a big juicy brain fart, it wont smell nice in the end.
Someone in Government needs to just stop flying around like a fart in a bottle and just settle down and take one issue at a time IMO.

Rat cunning <> intelligence.

Scomo being a great example

 

[TimeISmoney]

I still cant see the logics behind a recognition in the constitution and that is probably the root cause for the trepidation.

No one will be able to throw the advisory panel out, we've already seen the outcome of the likes of Deloitte and PWC advising governments.

 

[rederob]

I still cant see the logics behind a recognition in the constitution and that is probably the root cause for the trepidation.

Recognition is not a matter of logic. It's a matter of respect. No other nation has a culture that is as long lived.
That said, explain how recognition affects you if you suffer trepidation.

There is a Federal minister and ministry for aboriginal affairs, there is a State minister for aboriginal affairs, they have been well funded and now we are saying the aboriginals have not got a voice.
Yet there are daily examples of them actually having a very effective voice, with land rights, with banning the climbing of Uluru, with the outrage against Rio for mining above a cave (Juukan Gorge).

It has been well explained that systemic structural disadvantage has continued to thrive under existing arrangements.

So to say they don't have a voice doesn't quite resonate, but it is causing a lot of diversion, from some very serious economic issues.

It might not resonate with you, a white male, but it does with a majority of indigenous people who saw it as a possible way to improve on what we have now.

I certainly hope Albo has played it well, or he has put the Aboriginal plight back a long way IMO.

That makes no sense.
If the "no" vote prevails then white Australia keeps the lid on ATSI progress as the status quo is a proven failure.
And to suggest it has anything to do with Albo is also nonsensical as his one vote is equal to every one else's.

 

[rederob]

No one will be able to throw the advisory panel out, we've already seen the outcome of the likes of Deloitte and PWC advising governments.

The Voice is an element of "recognition" of first nations peoples.
You appear unable to see a difference between an historical fact and short-lived, self-serving for profit companies.

 

[IFocus]

Yes. Xavier Herbert wrote well. An absorbing work at a number of levels. Have re-read a few times. I had a look at the edition I have. Bought it in 1979. It was first published in 1975 not 1977. Won the Miles Franklin Literary award in 1976.

I believe it was his last book its unfortunate so much of sentiment it carries seems to remain in Australia today

Poor fella my country

 

[JohnDe]

The Australian Financial Review

 

[SirRumpole]

The Voice is an element of "recognition" of first nations peoples.
You appear unable to see a difference between an historical fact and short-lived, self-serving for profit companies.

No, you can't see the difference between recognising a historical fact( which in my opinion would pass overwhelmngly) and entrenching a permanent bureaucracy to give advice that current Ministers can get if they went out and asked the people on the ground.

So why has 'recognition' and the voice not been split into separate questions ?

 

[rederob]

No, you can't see the difference between recognising a historical fact( which in my opinion would pass overwhelmngly) and entrenching a permanent bureaucracy to give advice that current Ministers can get if they went out and asked the people on the ground.

Your racism is so obvious it's now comical.
And you continue to be clueless here.
The Voice is the embodiment of recognition. It's also not a bureaucracy as you keep falsely claiming. Recognition is also something that deserves to be permanent otherwise it ceases to be relevant.
Had you bothered to read why the Voice is being proposed you would understand why the status quo that you regurgitate has failed for decades.

So why has 'recognition' and the voice not been split into separate questions ?

Because the Voice is the embodiment of recognition. Furthermore, it moves beyond mere symbolism into a practical realm.
The Voice does not and will not affect you.
Despite this you keep raising questions that reflect wilful ignorance.
If you think my portrayal of you as racist is untrue then why would a powerless body of indigenous people who can advise on the betterment of indigenous people they represent be something you oppose?

 

[JohnDe]

 

[sptrawler]

Recognition is not a matter of logic. It's a matter of respect. No other nation has a culture that is as long lived.
That said, explain how recognition affects you if you suffer trepidation.

They are already recognised and respected as the first inhabitants, that is why they have land rights and their culture is already recognised that is why they had the right to stop people climbing Uluru. So to infer that their isn't already recognition is false.

As for trepidation, that comes from the need to put something in the constitution, where any challenge to what the limits of powers the 'voice' has, can only be challenged through the high court and the high courts role is to interpret the constitution.
Therefore giving the 'voice' a wide and vague description, means that its limits are wide and vague and open to varied interpretations.
For many people that is too vague, as can be seen by every discussion that is held about the issue.

It has been well explained that systemic structural disadvantage has continued to thrive under existing arrangements.

Therefore the processes of the departments of aboriginal affairs and ATSIC need to be sorted out, putting another level of Government in the chain doesn't fix it, the chain is still as weak as the weakest link. So in reality what exists needs to be fixed not added to.

It might not resonate with you, a white male, but it does with a majority of indigenous people who saw it as a possible way to improve on what we have now.

That is an emotional argument without substance, there are just as may aboriginals saying it isn't the right move, as there are saying it is. So you as white male have really no more credibility than I as a white male, in making overreaching statements about what the majority of indigenous people want.

That makes no sense.
If the "no" vote prevails then white Australia keeps the lid on ATSI progress as the status quo is a proven failure.
And to suggest it has anything to do with Albo is also nonsensical as his one vote is equal to every one else's.

You actually substantiate my comments, that the aboriginal affairs departments both Federal and State need a clean out, as you rightly say the status quo will remain.
That tells the public, that ATSIC can't adjust their settings and can't be made to do so, therefore it is a failing in the system that will still remain.
Also it isn't just 'white' Australians who would be, to use your words keeping a lid on ATSI progress, just in case you hadn't noticed Jacinta Price and others are indigenous.

Albo is the most senior proponent of the voice and is the public face pushing the agenda, to think he hasn't anything to do with it and wont be affected by the result is nonsensical and naive.
Same as saying Albo's input is the same as everyone else's, when he has the opportunity to present his on national media, again diminishes the credibility of your argument.

Otherwise, good answers congrats, @IFocus liked them.

 

[TimeISmoney]

The Voice is an element of "recognition" of first nations peoples.
You appear unable to see a difference between an historical fact and short-lived, self-serving for profit companies.

Who is going to pay for the advisory panel? It won't be immune to corruption. Albanese told the public we would not be voting for recognition, we're voting on whether or not we want "the voice". The same voice that has awarded native title claims, the same voice that's changed the names of islands back to indigenous names, the same voice that has blocked the public from using indigenous sacred land, yet you all say that you don't have a voice.