The Voice

[Smurf1976]

The big problem is house prices and energy prices, they are the ones that will hammer Labor

From the October 2023 Ipsos Issues Monitor poll which asks those surveyed to nominate their top 3 concerns:

Cost of living = 62%
Housing = 38%
Healthcare = 30%
The Economy = 28%
Petrol Prices = 21%
Crime = 20%
Environment = 16%
Poverty = 14%

Other issues all under 10% each. Noting that "Indigenous Issues" came in at 6% and "Racism" came in at 4% which puts them below personal debt, immigration, taxation, unemployment, education and population in addition to the major issues. It's a long way down the list of priorities for most.

 

[farmerge]

From the October 2023 Ipsos Issues Monitor poll which asks those surveyed to nominate their top 3 concerns:

Cost of living = 62%
Housing = 38%
Healthcare = 30%
The Economy = 28%
Petrol Prices = 21%
Crime = 20%
Environment = 16%
Poverty = 14%

Other issues all under 10% each. Noting that "Indigenous Issues" came in at 6% and "Racism" came in at 4% which puts them below personal debt, immigration, taxation, unemployment, education and population in addition to the major issues. It's a long way down the list of priorities for most.

I would reckon those two would not even rate a mention in a street poll unless people were actually asked. As you have stated there are far,far more worrying issues at hand. Most couldn't give a rats.

 

[JohnDe]

The Voice was a compromise choice by Aboriginals, elite's like Mundine and Price, Dutton told all and sundry it was wrong they knew better and said No, fine they know better they are the ones to do something else.

No voters should never complain ever again about Aboriginal issues, I can tell you now they ain't getting better.

the ANU rebuffed suggestions the result indicated Australia was becoming more conservative.​

​

“Australians in October 2023 rated themselves as being more left-wing compared to May 2022, with fewer Australians placing themselves to the right of the political spectrum immediately after the referendum than did so after the May 2022 federal election,” the report stated.​

​

“It is not possible to say that these changes are due to the referendum. However, we can say that it is highly unlikely that the referendum campaign led to a large shift to the right in people’s self-perception, given the observed data moved in the opposite direction.”​

Study reveals why Australians really voted No to the Indigenous voice to parliament

More than 40 per cent of Australians who said they would have voted Yes to the Indigenous voice to parliament in January ended up voting No according to new data released by the Australian National University, with more than 66 per cent of No voters indicating they opposed the voice because they viewed it as divisive.

A survey of more than 4,200 people found voters aged 18 to 24 were more than double as likely to have voted yes as those aged above 75 years old, while women were seven percentage points more likely to vote yes compared to men.

More highly educated Australians were much more likely to have voted Yes, with almost 60 per cent people with a postgraduate degree indicating they would vote Yes compared to less than 20 per cent of those who had not completed Year 12 and did not have a post-school qualification.

The biggest decline in support for the voice came in April, when Peter Dutton announced the Coalition was against what he called “the Canberra voice”.

While support for the voice was slowly tracking upwards until April – jumping between 58.9 per cent in January to 60.2 per cent – the ANU survey showed a substantial fall down to just 47.1 per cent in August.

“Very few people switched from voting No to Yes over the campaign, whereas there were many people who switched from intending to vote No to voting Yes,” the ANU report found.

“Of those who said that they would have voted No to the voice when asked in January 2023, only 4.8 per cent ended up voting Yes. Of those who said that they would have voted Yes when asked in January 2023, 42 per cent ended up voting No in October 2023.”

The Yes vote also declined much more for those who would have voted for the Coalition than for the two other party groups, dropping to just one-quarter of what it was in January for Coalition voters.

However, the ANU rebuffed suggestions the result indicated Australia was becoming more conservative.

“Australians in October 2023 rated themselves as being more left-wing compared to May 2022, with fewer Australians placing themselves to the right of the political spectrum immediately after the referendum than did so after the May 2022 federal election,” the report stated.

“It is not possible to say that these changes are due to the referendum. However, we can say that it is highly unlikely that the referendum campaign led to a large shift to the right in people’s self-perception, given the observed data moved in the opposite direction.”

While the voice result did not appear to have had an impact on the Labor vote, there was a large increase in people who indicated they would vote for the Coalition between August and October, from nearly 26 per cent to just over 30 per cent.

But Anthony Albanese remained significantly more likeable than Peter Dutton, with respondents rating the Prime Minister at 5.1 on a scale from 0 to 10, compared to Peter Dutton who was rated at 3.4.

SARAH ISON POLITICAL REPORTER

 

[IFocus]

More highly educated Australians were much more likely to have voted Yes, with almost 60 per cent people with a postgraduate degree indicating they would vote Yes compared to less than 20 per cent of those who had not completed Year 12 and did not have a post-school qualification.

The biggest decline in support for the voice came in April, when Peter Dutton announced the Coalition was against what he called “the Canberra voice”.

 

[JohnDe]

More highly educated Australians were much more likely to have voted Yes, with almost 60 per cent people with a postgraduate degree indicating they would vote Yes compared to less than 20 per cent of those who had not completed Year 12 and did not have a post-school qualification.

The biggest decline in support for the voice came in April, when Peter Dutton announced the Coalition was against what he called “the Canberra voice”.

Yes, all true. Albanese and the government failed to get bipartisan support, they failed to learn from history of referenda.

The “largest and most comprehensive survey” on the Indigenous voice to parliament has found the model put by the Albanese government was a key reason the referendum failed amid widespread support for a broader definition of constitutional recognition.​

ANU study of 4200 Australians finds voters rejected voice model, not constitutional recognition

The ANU study also finds Australians have complex views towards Indigenous issues but ultimately very strong support for many of the Uluru Statement principles. Picture: James Elsby/Getty Images


The “largest and most comprehensive survey” on the Indigenous voice to parliament has found the model put by the Albanese government was a key reason the referendum failed amid widespread support for a broader definition of constitutional recognition.

After tracking the views of 4200 voters since January, the Australian National University will release on Tuesday the study showing 41.5 per cent of respondents would definitely have voted Yes to recognise Indigenous people in the Constitution compared with 9.2 per cent who were certain they’d vote No.

Nearly a third (29.3 per cent) were unsure and wanted more details when asked: “If the referendum question was not to establish the voice to parliament but instead to recognise Indigenous people in the Constitution only, would you have voted YES or NO?”

In a finding that doesn’t align to the result of the referendum, which was voted down 60 per cent to 40 per cent, 87 per cent of voters surveyed believed Indigenous Australians should have a voice or say over matters that affected them and 76 per cent of No voters thought they deserved a voice on key policies and political decisions.

Study co-author Nicholas Biddle said the survey showed most voters were supportive of some form of constitutional recognition for Indigenous Australians.

“This raises serious questions about why the proposed referendum failed and saw more than 60 per cent of voters, and all states and territories except the ACT, categorically reject it,” he said.

“Our findings suggest it is not so much the premise of recognition but the model that was being presented to voters at the referendum, among other key factors.

“Our findings show that there is widespread support for a broad definition of constitutional recognition. Almost five times as many Australians, 61.7 per cent, said they would definitely or probably would have voted Yes if there was a referendum on recognition compared to those who said that they would probably or definitely would have voted No, 12.5 per cent.”

Most voters (79.4 per cent) thought the federal government should help improve reconciliation and 80.5 per cent wanted the country to undertake formal truth-telling processes – the third request of the Uluru statement, behind voice and treaty.

Deputy Liberal leader Sussan Ley asked Anthony Albanese on Monday if his government remained committed to implementing treaty and truth-telling one month after the referendum.

The Prime Minister downplayed the federal government’s role in treaty-making.

“Prior to October the 14th, I stood at this dispatch box and they were trying to say that what people were voting on was treaty,” he said.

“I indicated at this dispatch box that that wasn’t what people were voting on. That indeed, treaty negotiations are under way at state level, not at federal level. There is no treaty negotiations under way by the federal government.”

ROSIE LEWIS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

 

[sptrawler]

More highly educated Australians were much more likely to have voted Yes, with almost 60 per cent people with a postgraduate degree indicating they would vote Yes compared to less than 20 per cent of those who had not completed Year 12 and did not have a post-school qualification.

The biggest decline in support for the voice came in April, when Peter Dutton announced the Coalition was against what he called “the Canberra voice”.

Funny that, you probably find the very same people live in the higher socio economic areas, like the Eastern suburbs of Sydney.
On the West coast the highest votes were in areas with a view of the Swan river or the Indian ocean.
It doesn't mean they have any better idea of the indigenous issue, than someone who lives anywhere else, it just means they can more easily afford and are less affected by any fallout.
That's what is weighing down on Albo and unfortunately he knows it.

 

[wayneL]

Educated in what?

 

[Sean K]

Educated in what?

Marxism

 

[orr]

On the West coast the highest votes were in areas with a view of the Swan river or the Indian ocean.
It doesn't mean they have any better idea of the indigenous issue, than someone who lives anywhere else,

In the Indigenous Communities is where we saw the highest 'Yes' vote in the country;
And; they being Those in those communities, are Educated in lived experience.... but who'd seriously take them or their experience into account? or now given their expressed majority leanings as to how desisions are made for them.
As it stands just a few to many of the 'pea hearts' of 'austr-ya' were happy to 'flip the bird', willingly, outwardly, backhandedly, ignorantly or worst surreptitiously ...
At least in this thread the pea-hearts are out and (wasp)proud. small mercies.

Given that the passing of the referendum that would have cost next to nothing and given a lot to those with little; I'm would have been more than happy to acquiesce to the views of those 'educated' with 'lived experience'. For at least as much time as it take to get closer to national parody in life outcomes.
To quote Gen John Monash (if only everyone could afford a hundred dollar note) when he stared down the fasists.. ' this countries best options are education and the ballot box'... So for the time being a few to many know far to little about their Country. We recently had a PM who thought Cpt James Cook circumnavigated the continent and he advocated a 'No' vote; that says tagically a lot.


Don Wastons current piece in 'the Monthly' is a sober assessment of what was lost and his informed take on why.

 

[sptrawler]

In the Indigenous Communities is where we saw the highest 'Yes' vote in the country;
And; they being Those in those communities, are Educated in lived experience.... but who'd seriously take them or their experience into account? or now given their expressed majority leanings as to how desisions are made for them.
As it stands just a few to many of the 'pea hearts' of 'austr-ya' were happy to 'flip the bird', willingly, outwardly, backhandedly, ignorantly or worst surreptitiously ...
At least in this thread the pea-hearts are out and (wasp)proud. small mercies.

Given that the passing of the referendum that would have cost next to nothing and given a lot to those with little; I'm would have been more than happy to acquiesce to the views of those 'educated' with 'lived experience'. For at least as much time as it take to get closer to national parody in life outcomes.
To quote Gen John Monash (if only everyone could afford a hundred dollar note) when he stared down the fasists.. ' this countries best options are education and the ballot box'... So for the time being a few to many know far to little about their Country. We recently had a PM who thought Cpt James Cook circumnavigated the continent and he advocated a 'No' vote; that says tagically a lot.


Don Wastons current piece in 'the Monthly' is a sober assessment of what was lost and his informed take on why.

Unless Albo rolls out another plan, it will be an albatross around his neck, you can't go in to bat for something so important, then drop your bottom lip, pick up your ball and walk away sulking when it doesn't work.
That shows a lack of commitment, a lack of character and a lack of balls. He really needs to get his $hit together and move on with it.

 

[sptrawler]

A good news story for once, early in the thread I mentioned this is the only way that you can skill up kids in the communities, teach them how to build the houses, repair the gen sets and water treatment plants, so they can become self supporting.
then those that want to stay become productive and those that want to leave have skills, ATM all we do is send in people to fix damaged houses and broken equipment, we need to empower them to be self supporting not dependants.

In 2022, dozens of homes were destroyed in this community. Now locals are helping build new ones

Wadeye is home to more than 2,000 people and struggles with social issues such as severe overcrowding, which many hope these new builds will help overcome.

www.abc.net.au

A year and a half since dozens of homes were destroyed during violent unrest in the remote community of Wadeye, young Indigenous men are picking up the tools to help build brand new ones.
The community of more than 2,000 people in the Northern Territory's remote west struggles under social issues such as severe overcrowding, which many are hoping the new builds can help overcome.

Among those employed on the $18.5 million government remote housing contract is Wesley Miler, who recently completed a certificate in carpentry, which he undertook locally.
"I have a little one here, a young fella, I wanted to find a job here and support my son," he said.
Six local Indigenous men have been working in the crew of 14 tradespeople.

Mr Miler said the Indigenous and non-Indigenous tradies working on the project had formed strong bonds since the contract got underway last year.

"Been helping these boys build these houses out here, been good, been fun, seeing different whitefellas come in for work, get to know them very well, get to talk to them," Mr Miler said.

"Go out hunting after we do all the works out here."
The 16 new homes are being built by the Thamarrurr Development Corporation for a new sub-division in the community.

They're additional to 125 homes that were in varying states of damage following rioting in the community in 2022, which were all repaired by May this year to a tune of $10.5 million.

NT Chief Minister Natasha Fyles defended having to spend taxpayer funding on those repairs.
Among those counting themselves lucky to have secured one of the new homes in Wadeye is Lirrga man and Aboriginal interpreter, John Kingston Luckan.

"I don't know for how many years I was struggling to get a new house," Mr Luckan said.

"I had to stay with my brother-in-law and my sister and the family, a bit overcrowded."

It is not uncommon in the remote NT for more than 15 people to be forced to live together in a three-bedroom home with one toilet, which evidence shows can be badly detrimental to health.

In Wadeye's case, Mr Luckan said the overcrowding can also contribute to ongoing family tensions.

However, he said he was pleased to see the young residents "working together" on the new builds.
"All these young fellas that I see working out here, they good, they're trying to get some skills, learn something different for themselves that can change their lives," Mr Luckan said.
The community has long grappled with high rates of unemployment — in the 2016 Census, Wadeye's jobless rate was nearly 59 per cent.

 

[Smurf1976]

More highly educated Australians were much more likely to have voted Yes, with almost 60 per cent people with a postgraduate degree indicating they would vote Yes compared to less than 20 per cent of those who had not completed Year 12 and did not have a post-school qualification.

Which aligns with other observations that it was the top end of town who supported it whilst those lower down rejected it.

Referring to the Ipsos survey, anyone with a high income won't be so worried about any of the top issues. Cost of living, housing, healthcare, the economy, petrol prices, the top 5 issues, are all problems that don't really exist if you're a highly educated, high income earner. Even sixth place, crime, is at least partially resolved by having money.

Granted that education isn't perfectly correlated with income and wealth but to a significant extent it is. Someone with a postgraduate degree isn't likely to be on the minimum wage unless by choice. At least not if their degree's in anything serious.

 

[Smurf1976]

Given that the passing of the referendum that would have cost next to nothing

Trouble is, the lower half of society is already paying an outright fortune for previous things that weren't going to cost much.

That's the bit the upper half is missing. The lower half's already lost one hell of a lot and is saying enough is enough.

On a range of issues that's going to come to a head in a big way at some point.

 

[Smurf1976]

the ANU rebuffed suggestions the result indicated Australia was becoming more conservative.“Australians in October 2023 rated themselves as being more left-wing compared to May 2022, with fewer Australians placing themselves to the right of the political spectrum immediately after the referendum than did so after the May 2022 federal election,” the report stated.

A related issue there is what constitutes "right"?

If could be argued that Greens, Labor and the Coalition are all to the Left by varying degrees and between them that's the majority of voters.

 

[farmerge]

A related issue there is what constitutes "right"?

If could be argued that Greens, Labor and the Coalition are all to the Left by varying degrees and between them that's the majority of voters.

Perhaps if there had been less yap and more detail then we all would be a bit wiser
Left, Right or Centre.

 

[sptrawler]

Avoiding an investigation into child sex abuse, could well come back to bite someone on the butt.

Carnarvon’s teen mum crisis prompts desperate calls for help

The trouble-plagued Gascoyne town is in the grips of a teenage pregnancy crisis, with girls as young as 12 about to become mothers, prompting authorities to plead for a 24/7 ‘safe space’ for youths.

thewest.com.au

Carnarvon is in the grips of a teenage pregnancy crisis — and there are even girls as young as 12 about to become mothers.

After 11 local 14-year-olds gave birth over the past year, town officials used a recent visit by MP Reece Whitby to highlight the shocking surge and issued a plea for State Government help.

 

[sptrawler]

As we said earlier in this thread, no one knows what the unintended consequences of high court decisions are, until they arrive.

The questionable High Court advice that could have prevented a whole lot of Labor pains

It's hard to see how the fallout from a landmark High Court ruling on indefinite immigration detention can be described as anything other than potty, with politicians rushing around like chooks with their heads cut off.

www.abc.net.au

It's been just three weeks since the High Court threw out two decades of legal precedent, ruling indefinite immigration detention was unlawful.

The ruling prompted the release of more than 140 people, including convicted murderers, rapists and drug traffickers, into the community as the government scrambled to respond.

Laws have been rushed through the parliament at breakneck speed, laws that even the government concedes now need "refining".

It's little wonder those same laws — which impose monitoring devices, curfews and harsh consequences for breaking visas — now face two High Court challenges.

One minute Labor has been arguing it was prepared for the High Court's ruling, the next it's having to rush through repairs for the flawed laws it passed in a hurry.

Shaping more of the government's policy than Labor would like to admit has been a Coalition that seems to find itself oscillating between shouting at the government to hurry up and then demanding it slow down.

The High Court too has been in an unusual hurry.
Instead of taking months to deliberate, reflect and issue reasons, it immediately announced after hearing the case earlier this month. We've now learned two justices wanted the court to wait to announce its decision, so the ruling and reasons could be announced together.

Government ministers have repeatedly said it would be inappropriate to criticise the court.

But it's done little to hide its frustration, making it clear it not only didn't like the ruling but saying it had been announced without a justification.

While politicians might be reactive, courts pride themself on reflecting, on thinking before speaking, virtues rarely on display in the political arena.

Yet pressure from politicians and the media appears to have prompted the court to yesterday hand down its reasons months quicker than had been expected.

It's an unedifying situation that the parliament has found itself in, a race to the bottom where ankle bracelets are being dished out like lolly pops and consequential laws are being made with little scrutiny or oversight.

 

[IFocus]

Avoiding an investigation into child sex abuse, could well come back to bite someone on the butt.

Same problem when I lived there 40 years ago although I reckon the family disfuncion is higher now, still conservatives should be happy as they never want to see change

 

[sptrawler]

Same problem when I lived there 40 years ago although I reckon the family disfuncion is higher now, still conservatives should be happy as they never want to see change

 

[IFocus]

As we said earlier in this thread, no one knows what the unintended consequences of high court decisions are, until they arrive.

Allowing a politician to lock anyone up indefinitely was always at odds with Australian values.

Courts should be the only mechanism for locking people up and even there it should never be indefinite.

Realistically there are no unintended consequences just the law in operation unfortunately taking 20 years making.

The Coalition attacking Labor over the release of all other than the person in the court case shows they have no regard for the law.

Also the Coalition urging Labor the lock people up using terrorisms laws real is a turn into Nazism.