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The Voice


The point was how the "elites" were running the yes campaign and here we have a real elite, nothing to do with bitterness or vindictiveness just pointing out the gross hypocrisy.

And where is plan "B" from the No vote campaign? Guess what there isn't one nada, nothing, SFA.

Price won't find it in London attacking the trans community and Wazza will be to busy raking in the $$'s.

As for junkets you forget Dutton and Prices token Alice visit for the photo ops didn't even speak with local Aborigines but attacked / slurred front line health care and child protection workers, total grubs IMHO.

Then there was the Dutton / Price call for a royal commission into child sexual abuse after the vote (to show how caring they are) nevermind the 33 reports since 1997, Bridgett Archer called it out for what it was and crossed the floor to vote against it.

Australia has voted down and rejected overwhelmly any sort of recognition or any sort of transparent representation in government discissions' that allows buy in and or affects their lives, that's the outcome.

Now you are standing around now saying something must be happening is going to happen after the above, its over the discussion is done.
 
I'm not as pessimistic as you, the 'voice' wasn't going to have any power to change anything anyway, so it was only going to be a token gesture anyway therefore to make out it was going to be in anyway earth shattering, is really a fanciful idea.
Your outrage and suggestion that "it is over, the discussion is done", flies in the face of your reaction.
It is obviously far from done, don't be so defeatist, you never know something better than tokenism may well come from it.
Attacking people because they don't agree with you, or your side of the debate is just another form of extremism, which everyone including yourself, points out is a very ugly trait..
 
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Now you are standing around now saying something must be happening is going to happen after the above, its over the discussion is done.

It's about time Linda Burney started doing her job imo.

What's wrong with holding a summit meeting with Aboriginal leaders ?

A jobs summit was held but business and unions don't need a Constitutional voice.

All very well making noises about "listening" if the pollies responsible just stay in Canberra and only talk to their departments.
 
Obviously there was only one way to address this and because 60% of people disagreed the Government has decided that everything is off the table.
If a group of representatives who could make representation to parliament, was the answer, why can't that still be done.
It is either due to petulance on the Governments side, or a lack of sincerity, to say that it is done finished, off the table leans toward the lack of sincerity.
The Government has no trouble calling Royal Commissions, special investigative committees, consultative groups and a mirriad of other ways to hear representations.
To say the only way is to put it in the constitution and also say it has no other function than advisory, now that smacks of hypocrisy and lacks sincerity.
The Government is in office and may well be returned next election, they could quite easily initiate a representative group to parliament and show the effectiveness as it could have the same access as proposed in the Voice.
To completely abandon the idea, does indicate it was never expected to change the outcomes as intended, otherwise it would be plan B of the YES camp.
The reason for abandoning the whole idea of a representative committee seems to be flawed, by their own reasoning, if it was the only way forward.
it also highlights, why the population are very sceptical, of those who are supposedly representing them.
 
In view of the fact we already have numerous agencies "working" on the Aboriginal problem, maybe we could make it mandatory for EVERY person in the industry who lives in Canberra to actually go to a community and stay for one week.

Observe first hand what problems THAT community has then go back to Canberra and make arrangements to actually fix them, one community at a time.

Can't pass the parcel then can they, you were there now fix it

ps Tony Abbott actually did this and was attacked by the Canberra mob
 
ps Tony Abbott actually did this and was attacked by the Canberra mob

Yes he did and he came to the conclusion that the problems were intractable and the only solution was 'integration' of aboriginals into the mainstream society.

 

The problem is some don't want to integrate into modern society, in particular those who live in remote areas seem rather averse to working in our "tradition sense"

I did find that those who live in towns and communities were keen on USA basketball league and also the Team T shirts, shoes etc it seemed quite odd to see people wearing $100 Tshirts while claiming to be hard done by

I really do believe that the majority of us would love to see life improve for them but we are using our criteria to judge them. Maybe they actually like sitting in the shade with a cool one, I don't mind it myself actually

The answer varies so much between the City, the towns and the remotes they need a specialist for each category.

Around here, if they were building houses for them they would have to allow room for the boat, the jet ski, the caravan and have 3 garages to fit every ones cars.

We mingle very well because there are Aboriginal people working in all sorts of jobs, the Land Council trains people for work and it is really gathering momentum after about 8 years.

Over 80% are in mixed race marriages but I suppose there are some who are still racist, much the same as with Asians or Muslims.

If we look at Taree and Kempsey though it is very different, the Elders there are working with Police to try to teach youngsters that a good life is available if they will only stop thinking like victims and start being ambitious.

The world is always moving on, you can sit under a tree and cry poor me or you can fire up and use the opportunities to go to Uni.

Personal choice with very different results after 10 years of life.
 

You don't get it, no government or politician will ever do this again, ever, or attempt to put Aboriginal issues centre to Australians such was the rejection.

Why, the politics are utterly toxic Price and Mundine central to that fact denying Aboriginals a place at the table that they visit , Albanese is one of the few politicians that actually GAF virtually no PM's before have really had a go and none will every do so again, the polls confirm that if you support Aboriginal aspirations then you get fried there is no glory in Aboriginal affairs and no hope name a politician that would have a go against that.

The polling supports the low life position of Dutton and Price, its over note Albanese's body language when conceding the outcome, it wasn't due to defeat it was due to the fact that there was no hope for the future such was the rejection from the Australian people.

The vote against was so significant that there isn't any way forward when there are no votes in doing so then it really is over.

Its over at least for my life time.
 
ps Tony Abbott actually did this and was attacked by the Canberra mob

Sorry Macca but Abbot was a real dog that's being generous he took lots of photo opportunities every year camped with some of the mobs and talked a lot but essentially did SFA, I believe he did cut funding ($500 mil total planning on cutting a further $600 mil next budget) but did nothing else literally.

A bit below about Abbot and Mundine

Tony Abbott’s hypocrisy on Indigenous issues knows no bounds​


“An example of this hypocrisy: Warren Mundine received $330,000 from the Indigenous Advancement Strategy for a TV show on Sky called "Mundine Means Business", while our communities went without programs to support community safety, get kids to school or our people into jobs.


Nova Peris

I am sure we all remember the media coverage our Prime Minister received when he proclaimed that he aspired to be 'the Prime Minister for Aboriginal Australians'. This budget confirms that what this government says and what they do are two different things. Some of our most vulnerable people in this country will be hurt the hardest. This is a budget that well and truly widens the gap on Indigenous disadvantage. My electorate of the Northern Territory has the highest proportion of Aboriginal people in Australia and, make no mistake, they will be hurt more than people anywhere else by these savage cuts. Tony Abbott promised to be the Prime Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. Well, it is now clear that he was not telling us the truth. Indigenous Australians put their trust in Tony Abbott, and they are being repaid by having half a billion dollars slashed from Indigenous Affairs.


 
You don't get it, no government or politician will ever do this again, ever, or attempt to put Aboriginal issues centre to Australians such was the rejection.
I agree, no politician will try to use the constitution, to achieve something that could be achieved through normal channels.
If Albanese GAF, he could achieve exactly the same outcome through normal channels, the fact he threw in the towel would indicate to many he actually doesn't GAF.
To establish a representative lobby group to parliament, doesn't require a change to the constitution, having a melodramatic meltdown doesn't change that fact.
If indeed it was imperative that a representative group was formed, it still can be, if one isn't formed it indicates that was never the underlying driver in the first place.
What the general public were wary of IMO, was that a sector of the population get special dispensation, that isn't afforded to everyone. That isn't what most people think a constitution should be used for, it isn't there to provide welfare, training modules, and housing.

The referendum IMO has also put the Republic debate back years, as it highlighted the question are we better served by politicians that have very defined limits, or do we think our politicians should be given greater scope to mould our society.
The referendum brought that to the fore and I think they were shocked, that Australia isn't as apathetic and compliant as they presumed.
 
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Why, the politics are utterly toxic Price and Mundine central to that fact denying Aboriginals a place at the table that they visit
Denying a place at the table?

Last I checked, Aboriginals have exactly the same rights to representation, be that via their local MP or by means of becoming a politician themselves, as every other Australian citizen.
 
If indeed it was imperative that a representative group was formed, it still can be, if one isn't formed it indicates that was never the underlying driver in the first place.
Bingo.

Government can still achieve the desired result assuming that actually was the desired result.

The referendum outcome isn't comparable to (for random examples) saying you can't have a bridge anywhere over Sydney Habour or saying that there can't be a uranium mine anywhere in the state. Either of those would be the actual end of a concept.

This is more akin to saying there won't be a direct bus service from your suburb to the event you wish to attend. There is however a bus to the CBD and there are buses from the CBD to the event. You can still get there, just not as directly as you'd originally hoped. To use it as an excuse for not attending at all would be lame to say the least, suggesting you didn't really want to go and were just looking for a reason.

I contend what government's really unhappy about is a situation akin to the worker who was hoping the meeting would last all day. Nope, it didn't. Meeting's over and there's now no reason to not get to work.
 

No, it is YOU that doesn't get it.

Jacinta boldly and clearly articulated that the way forward for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people lies not in merely throwing more money at a problem with little accountability, nor in the disempowering politics of grievance culture.
It lies in the fundamental values that helped Australia grow to become a wealthy and free land of opportunity: the equality of opportunity, respect for the individual, reward for effort, and the strong social fabric that comes from smaller, more accountable governments.
And along with her colleague Nyunggai Warren Mundine, she was prepared to articulate an uncomfortable truth: that all the programs in the world won’t make a difference unless individuals in disadvantage can be persuaded to also make better choices for themselves and their families. That’s not to blame anyone, but to accept the power of human agency.
As a consequence, she has fundamentally restored in the mind of Australians the importance of a truth that was being gradually ebbed away: that equality is about the human dignity of all, and not about race or, as Bob Hawke once put it, some “hierarchy of descent”.

 

As was shown in WA a state is quite capable of making laws that strongly favour aboriginal people but the majority objected loudly and they were repealed But it does prove that Govt do have the power to make such laws.

The whole thing with the Voice was an ego trip for a select few in Canberra, Fed Govt could have made the laws a year ago and the $200m blown on bull**** could have been spent fixing problems instead of ego trips
 
They just can't let it go or understand what 60% of Australians understood.

The final expert was Thomas Mayo, the pro-voice campaigner who has previously said the “embarrassing” referendum had made it “hard for Australia now to talk about human rights to other countries like China”.

 
Hmmm I wonder when the cheque book is brought out will this scenario change "to it's OK, go ahead, the woggle or whatever will not be disturbed".
 
The latest ruling by the High Court regarding the release of criminal detainees, highlights how problematic dealing with issues through the High Court can be, it is strange that only 60% of the population could see that..
 
The latest ruling by the High Court regarding the release of criminal detainees, highlights how problematic dealing with issues through the High Court can be, it is strange that only 60% of the population could see that..
Too many "Lefties" on the High Court.
 
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