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The Voice

Another way of looking at it could be, the outcome of this referendum by demographic was very similar to the last one which was for the republic.

Maybe the reason the elites voted for both, was because the inner city Syndey/Melbourne/Canberra elites had the most to gain from a republic and the least to lose from a voice to parliament, who knows?
Statistics can be interpreted as the reader wants.
 
Another way of looking at it could be, the outcome of this referendum by demographic was very similar to the last one which was for the republic.

Maybe the reason the elites voted for both, was because the inner city Syndey/Melbourne/Canberra elites had the most to gain from a republic and the least to lose from a voice to parliament, who knows?
Statistics can be interpreted as the reader wants.
I just wish the left would take the L and STFU. The absolute petulant childishness has been something to behold.

Here we have even the prime minister acting like 13-year-old girl that hasn't got her way.

Meanwhile Australia stays divided and real solutions for the disadvantaged are increasingly a very long way off.
 
I just wish the left would take the L and STFU. The absolute petulant childishness has been something to behold.

Here we have even the prime minister acting like 13-year-old girl that hasn't got her way.

Meanwhile Australia stays divided and real solutions for the disadvantaged are increasingly a very long way off.
This article sums it up well and the very last statement and sentence actually nails the whole issue.

 
This article sums it up well and the very last statement and sentence actually nails the whole issue.

Best holes "setting back reconciliation" is really giving me the irrits. Reconciliation can not happen with a top-down, political approach. It will always leave some party aggrieved.

True reconciliation can only happen with a bottom up approach, starting with individuals, families, communities and eventual and eventually Nationwide. Someone has to stick their hand out and say "bygones are bygones". Someone has to be magnanimous, someone has to forgive, someone has to open an opportunity.

Somebody has to start looking at each other and say brother, instead of black @#$&+& or white &$#@... At the community and individual level.

Government actions, because they are ideological, can only ever divide.
 
For many people, rightly or wrongly, there is nothing to reconcile.
Especially those not born here, they have no skin in this game.
This cannot be overcome easily.
I don't hold much hope for reconciliation except at the usual superficial political level.
Mick
Exactly, the bottom line is funding and who is going to wear it IMO.
I think it should be a State issue not a Federal issue, because each State has completely different issues related to the aboriginals and each need to be addressed differently.
The issues prevalent in Alice Springs, Jigalong and Balgo, are completely different from those in Toorak and Vaucluse.
If it is run out of Canberra, it will be another bottomless pit of snout dipping IMO, as the referendum highlighted.
They already run the aboriginal affairs department out of there and the Govt has said they are useless, then to top it off they all voted Yes, to agree they are useless, but want to keep the controlling body there. Lol
Obviously those in Canberra would be saying Jigalong, is that a dance or something.
 
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Labor seems to have ditched it's promise of delivering the Uluru Statement IN FULL.

Who would have thunk?

Screenshot 2023-10-17 at 7.55.51 pm.png
 
Labor seems to have ditched it's promise of delivering the Uluru Statement IN FULL.

Who would have thunk?

View attachment 164184
Another well intended brain fart that will take a while for the smell to disperse, hopefully before the next election.

Watch for splash of cash to help middle Australia, who just gave them a huge kick in the goolies, because those middle class going to work every day, see the price of the house they want to buy, going up much faster than the double income families who are working three jobs, savings are going up.

Meanwhile, the Govt can always find someone more deserving than them.

This will end badly IMO.
 
Put yourself in the shoes of the average Australian.

They're struggling with reality that it's entirely possible to be employed full time and also homeless in Australia in 2023. They've seen the circumstances of the average worker progressively deteriorate over and extended period with the trend still in progress.

On the other hand those they see as largely responsible for their plight now propose to fix the circumstances faced by Aboriginal people, but they're unwilling to say how they'll do it beyond "trust me".

Why would they trust the same broad group that's so comprehensively failed on other issues and which won't answer the question as to how they're going to fix it for Aboriginals? As I've said many times, the public have substantially lost faith in the entire concept of government as a solution to problems.

Personally I've encountered plenty of people who've succeeded despite various setbacks and I've likewise encountered those who are perpetually down. I can tell you exactly what separates them - it's not race, it's not gender, it's not even education. It's outlook. Seeking a way out of the mess and being open to all options versus seeking to wallow in it and finding a reason to not pursue every suggestion put forward. That's what separates those who succeed from those who fail.

Worst thing you can do to anyone who's struggling is tell them they're a victim. All that does is keep them down, keep them in the cycle of doom and to be blunt it's a form of abuse in itself. Rather, if the aim is to help then they need to come to a point of seeking a way forward, a way out of the mess, and accepting that they're going to have to make it work. That is, shifting the focus from the past to the future.

That's not some radical idea of my own. It's just the stages of grief:

1. Shock and denial

2. Pain and guilt

3. Anger and bargaining

4. Depression

5. The upward turn

6. Reconstruction and working through

7. Acceptance and hope.

Aboriginal people collectively seem stuck at (4) and have been so for a very long time and if there's to be a way forward, it involves moving them onto (5) then (6) and finally (7). That won't happen if there's a victim mentality - the aim is to end that seeing themselves as victims, and instead embrace the possibilities for the future.

Take for example someone who's just turned 18 years old. Quite simply there's no fundamental reason why they ought not be in comparable circumstances to any other 18 year old and if they aren't then that's the fault of adults who've done bad things to them since 2005 not back in 1788. There's no fundamental reason why they can't have achieved what others have achieved - if they haven't then we need to look at the adults around them.

In short the cycle needs to be broken. It might not be practical to fix things for older Aboriginal people but we can and must fix it for the coming and future generations.

I won't claim to have all the answers but I do know that any real solution involves moving the focus forward. It involves shifting the conversation from "land was stolen" to "we want to succeed in mainstream society".

I'm not the right person to change that mindset, I sure wouldn't nominate myself for the job, but the Voice didn't seem to be either, it seemed far too focused on "pay the rent" rather than "focus on the future" and of particular note, the idea that it was to be permanent implied it was never expected to succeed.

There are people who do know how to go about this sort of thing, how to shift attitudes, and they're the people who need to be involved. They're the ones who need to be doing what it takes to shift the mindset to one of wanting to succeed in mainstream society, which then makes it relatively straightforward for government, business and others to do the physical things to make it happen.

Aboriginal people need the equivalent of former Tasmanian premier Jim Bacon. A man who came in and abruptly shifted the mindset of the people from the problems to the solutions. The change was dramatic - an extended period of doom, gloom and wallowing swept away almost in an instant and it all came down to the energy he had, the language he used and his focus on shifting the mindset or the people from "how we got into this mess" to "how we're getting out of the mess" then delivering. He was only premier for 5.5 years, resigning due to health, but his lasting legacy was that of a changed mindset, one focused on looking forward not looking back.

Shift the mindset to one that wants success then the rest becomes simply a case of doing it.

As for the other issues, well the basic problem isn't Aboriginal suicides versus housing but rather that the working class has been waiting a rather long time now and throughout that time there's always been some excuse, some other issue that government found more pressing. If it's not Aboriginals then it's climate change, if it's not that then it's a pandemic, or it's a budget deficit, or it's a war, or it's a drought, or it's redeveloping land in inner Sydney, or it's some international issue, or it's conservation, or it's pre-mixed drinks, or it's tax evasion, or it's government itself, or it's.....

Tell someone they need to wait and the first time they'll likely say OK, the other thing seems really important so I'll wait. After 40 years that's worn very thin however, very thin and Labor plausibly is on its last roll of the dice here.

I say that because it's come to the point where 87.5% of workers aren't members of a union, it's reportedly over 90% in the private sector, and less than a third of voters voted Labor at the last federal election. Indeed the Coalition still gained a higher primary vote than Labor despite being in obvious disarray. Based on that, Labor's support base is anything but solid - they're in government for no reason other than when forced to make a choice that was limited to Labor or the Coalition, more people thought Labor was less bad. That's all it is though - less than a third actually voted Labor and even some of those would no doubt have been in the "least bad" camp.

If Labor wants to survive politically at the federal level then they've no choice other than to address the problems of those who've been waiting. It's that or it's an extended period in opposition once the Coalition finds themselves a popular leader which they no doubt will at some point. :2twocents

I guess my point was Australians are more concerned with 1st world problems rather than addressing the 3rd world problem that exists in Australia.

A lot of people time and effort have gone into this for little return. The Voice was a very low risk proposition giving over no power but at the same time empowering Aboriginal communities to be at the table in a transparent way shining a light into their affairs.

Australia has rejected this approach realistically that’s the end of the conversation.

My heart goes out to those Aborigines who worked for the opportunity to progress in such a minor step and have been rejected by Australians comprehensively.
 
I guess my point was Australians are more concerned with 1st world problems rather than addressing the 3rd world problem that exists in Australia.

A lot of people time and effort have gone into this for little return. The Voice was a very low risk proposition giving over no power but at the same time empowering Aboriginal communities to be at the table in a transparent way shining a light into their affairs.

Australia has rejected this approach realistically that’s the end of the conversation.

My heart goes out to those Aborigines who worked for the opportunity to progress in such a minor step and have been rejected by Australians comprehensively.
IMO you're never going to empower aboriginals from Canberra, they can fund it, but they know fck all about it.
Fund the States to sort it.
 
IMO you're never going to empower aboriginals from Canberra, they can fund it, but they know fck all about it.
Fund the States to sort it.

Federal Government policy is made in Canberra why would you ignore that?

Howard ran the intervention how would the states change that, hint they couldn't.
 
Federal Government policy is made in Canberra why would you ignore that?

Howard ran the intervention how would the states change that, hint they couldn't.
Hint it hasn't worked, you might have missed that, so logics says you move the the team closer to the workface, you don't make a bigger head office.

That's the difference between people who fix $hit and people who talk up a storm and have never achieved much.

What is the definition of stupid, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Canberra down to a tee, even Albo says they have stuffed up and are useless and he has been in Federal parliament since he was a kid.
 
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It would be interesting to see how many of the main drivers of the voice would be as vocal, if a condition of the voice was, they had their offices moved to Wiluna, Halls Creek, Alice Springs, Mount Isa, Chaters Towers and they had to be based there.
We wouldn't have even had a referendum is my guess.
 
For many people, rightly or wrongly, there is nothing to reconcile.
Especially those not born here, they have no skin in this game.
This cannot be overcome easily.
I don't hold much hope for reconciliation except at the usual superficial political level.
Mick
true Mick: voluntarily using the extremes:
I owe nothing to a first nation here or in Canada or Taipei or Chile; I landed here, I paid, I paid, got taxed and paid more ;
-> my ancestors built a western society which offers you cars, food on the table or in a fridge freezer, medicines and the tech and software in mobile phones.
My wife grandmother was a stolen generation , ripped from her mum ..yes this was happening in France too for single mums etc
And first nations in the EU are getting submerged under a wave of invaders and are not even able to raise the subject publicly legally...
So..hum
 
I guess my point was Australians are more concerned with 1st world problems rather than addressing the 3rd world problem that exists in Australia.

A lot of people time and effort have gone into this for little return. The Voice was a very low risk proposition giving over no power but at the same time empowering Aboriginal communities to be at the table in a transparent way shining a light into their affairs.

Australia has rejected this approach realistically that’s the end of the conversation.

My heart goes out to those Aborigines who worked for the opportunity to progress in such a minor step and have been rejected by Australians comprehensively.
That sounds nice for the glossy brochure, most people think it was just another self serving sector of Government being set up, time to move on and come up with something that will work.
It's a bit like Allan Joyce, the greatest mate and champion of the downtrodden, until he isn't the one who can give you a seat in business class, then he is the biggest ar$hole ever.
Talk about shallow people. Lol
 
I guess my point was Australians are more concerned with 1st world problems rather than addressing the 3rd world problem that exists in Australia.

A lot of people time and effort have gone into this for little return. The Voice was a very low risk proposition giving over no power but at the same time empowering Aboriginal communities to be at the table in a transparent way shining a light into their affairs.
As I'm looking at it, your comment does cut close to the bone but from a different perspective.

What I and I think many have in mind, and I'll use some examples to illustrate including on other subjects:

It used to be the case that the push was to deal with violence and abuse. So things like people being bashed or raped and so on and I think it's fair to say no respectable person would dispute that's something that needs to be prevented.

In recent times however that push has shifted - no longer are we talking about someone being bashed senseless, now the complaint is that someone called them names. Names yes, words, spoken words not a fist or kick in sight.

It used to be that the environmental push was to save places of special significance eg Fraser Island, Franklin River, Kakadu and so on and whilst some disagreed they could at least follow what the argument was about and that there was some basis to it, any disagreement being one of value judgements about priorities. The value of the resource for human use versus the value of the unspoilt natural environment.

That very rapidly escalated to a broad attack on pretty much any development in regional areas apart from the big mines in WA and Qld. It went from saving a few special places to a broad attack on the regions and ended up completely wiping out entire industries and creating regions of sustained economic disadvantage which remain to this day.

It used to be that we sent people to prison for violent crimes, arson, major fraud and things like that.

Today we hear an endless stream of excuses about hard upbringings and so on to justify not sending someone to prison for doing something most agree warrants it. But call someone names or get their gender wrong and it's off to prison you go. Because yeah, we all know calling someone a rude name is more serious than burning the local shops to the ground or killing an elderly person walking down the street. :rolleyes:

It used to be that we had welfare for people who for whatever reason found themselves in trouble. In that context few begrudged the idea that we provide support to help them get back up on their feet or, for those with genuine serious disabilities etc, support them for life. In a civilised society that seems like the right thing to do and, crucial point, there aren't many such people so the cost per worker is minimal. It's a nice reassurance for everyone knowing it's there should you ever need it.

Today we've come to a point where there's a government handout to replace a light bulb and I mean that literally, in some states that is indeed the case. It seems pretty much everyone's getting money for something - meanwhile a diminishing portion of the population is paying tax to fund it all.

And so on.

In principle I agree with the idea that we have welfare for those in genuine need, that we conserve places of genuine high value, that violence is unacceptable and so on. No disagreement there whatsoever.

But it's all gone way too far. The masses are suffering, to the point that even just buying their own home is increasingly out of reach, meanwhile the elites prattle on that someone was offended by words, that there's something spoiling their view and so on.

Those outside the inner suburban media, political, academic, management and activist bubble have simply had enough. This day was always going to come, that sentiment has been rising for many years now, and it's not about Aboriginals. They're just the ones caught in the crossfire.

That's not really about First World versus Third World. In the First World, being able to have a roof over your head is generally taken for granted after all, that it's no longer a given has been the tipping point. Aboriginals might be doing it tough but they're not the only ones.

Assuming a genuine desire for improved circumstances, there really shouldn't be a conflict between Aboriginal people and mainstream Australia. They're not the problem and there's a lot in common there if we think about it. Both want a roof over their heads and neither has been at all well served by a city-centric political system that, apart from Kevin Rudd's relatively brief time as PM, has had the country run by a PM from Sydney or Melbourne constantly for more than 40 years now.

Hawke, Keating, Howard, Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison and Albanese have one thing in common. They're all from Sydney or Melbourne electorates. That's a big part of the problem, that since federation we've had just one PM from each of WA and Tas, none from SA or NT, and even Queensland hasn't produced many in recent times, Rudd being the only one since the 1940's and his total time as PM was less than 3 years.

The whole system's far too centred on the big two cities and that explains an awful lot..... :2twocents
 
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Realistically, the Aborigines need to fix their own culture.

And no longer rely on immigrants to solve their problems.

This Yes/No is a clear statement.

The working public gives them enough in centrelink benefits.

How much can we give them! Plus sorry's & thanks to the gagagsgasgasga clans everywhere I go.

If they want to change their situation, they should go & take it.
 
Realistically, the Aborigines need to fix their own culture.

And no longer rely on immigrants to solve their problems.

This Yes/No is a clear statement.

The working public gives them enough in centrelink benefits.

How much can we give them! Plus sorry's & thanks to the gagagsgasgasga clans everywhere I go.

If they want to change their situation, they should go & take it.
And a properly managed government should not care about the colour of the skin (or a tribal self identification) to determine which help should go to a citizen in need.
That's the basis of proper non racist human rights.
Sadly, we already do the distinction, so yes Australia is racist in that it favours first nation already.
The voice intended to push the knife further in and was rejected by any sensible people
I have no doubt the push will carry on and the voice will be forced on us under another name sooner or later
In the EU, the Maastricht referendum was rejected in mass by the French electorate, the Irish, etc it was in place within a decade..
The elite do not like itwhen the people does not follow :
We are the "sans dent" (toothless) for Macron during the yellow vest riots, the Clinton deplorable..how dare we ...
 
I knew the voice was a crock of **** to extract more money.

"Explained: How Treaty will work in Queensland

The Queensland government is committed to forging ahead with its Path to Treaty legislation despite the crushing defeat for the Voice to parliament referendum.

The legislation was passed with bipartisan support during an extraordinary parliamentary sitting in Cairns in May.
But what does this mean?
The first stage of the Path to Treaty will be the truth-telling and healing inquiry.
The state government is currently finalising the structure of the inquiry with expectations committee members will be confirmed by the end of the year.
From then on, the major focus of the next three years will be the truth-telling and healing inquiry conducted by a five-member board, which will travel across the state to investigate the massacre of Indigenous people, the effect of the Stolen Generation and the impacts of colonisation on First Nations and Torres Strait Islander peoples in Queensland.

After the three years of the hearings, the results of the inquiry could lead to financial reparations, health reforms and curriculum changes by the state government as part of landmark treaty negotiations with Queensland’s First Nations groups.

Next year, the government will also set up the First Nations treaty institute with the framework for negotiating treaties.

When the laws were passed, then Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Partnerships Minister Craig Crawford said there was a possibility a hundred separate treaties could be negotiated, depending on how many Indigenous groups across the state come forward in the next three years.

Deals could be struck across areas like youth justice, housing, health and education, as well as a formal platform to change the names of geographic locations that are either considered insensitive or were previously known by another name for thousands of years.

Will my suburb name change without consultation?

The Queensland government says it regularly consults on updating place names and will continue to do so.

If place name changes are requested as part of a specific treaty negotiation, the usual process to undertake consultation on place name changes that already exists will be followed.
will my taxes increase to pay treaties?

The government says the state’s $300 million Path to Treaty Fund was established in 2021 as an investment in reconciliation and healing to ensure funding certainty and remove any impact on consolidated revenue.

Returns from the fund will be used to progress Queensland’s Path to Treaty, providing a secure funding source for treaty-making activities in Queensland.

Will school curriculums change the way colonisation of Australia is taught?

The Queensland government has said information gathered from the truth-telling and healing inquiry process will help inform the community and government of the history of colonisation and ongoing impacts.

It will also inform the First Nations Treaty Institute in its work towards readiness for treaty negotiations.

Material and information gathered from the inquiry process will also be a valuable resource for Queensland schools to support the teaching of a complete history of Queensland, particularly histories from an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspective.

Could I lose land that I own as part of this Treaty?

No. The Queensland government is definitive that this will not happen."


https://www.couriermail.com.au/news...k=ceef72fbd078754a0aa40ec037de2dd2-1697573389
 
Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, I hope that her political party can see her strength, intelligence and charisma.


The meteoric rise and rise of Jacinta Nampijinpa Price has taken much of the country by surprise – even her parents, Dave and Bess, who are now willing to entertain the possibility she may one day live in The Lodge.

“I can see now she had it in there all along,” Mr Price said.

“But I didn’t appreciate what she had. When we went to the National Press Club and listened to her speech I was gobsmacked. I was just so bloody proud. We knew she was good, but I didn’t appreciate she was that good.”

We’re sitting in the couple’s Alice Springs home, where they’ve agreed to a wide-ranging interview about their daughter, her critics and her ambitions.

The former housing commission house, which they share with their grandson, Leiland, and Mr Price’s pet python, was attacked by vandals with paint on Indigenous voice to parliament referendum day, when the senator’s father was also “egged” by a stranger.

“We’re not scared of the bullies, the bullies can go to hell,” Mr Price said. “They can rant and rave as much as they like and threaten us but they’re not going to stop our daughter.”

They know more than anyone the extraordinary journey that has brought their daughter to this point, but say it is her experiences in growing up attached to troubled communities such as Yuendumu that have greatly influenced her.

“Her experience of living within that lifestyle of Aboriginal people who are helpless, hopeless, made her a voice for them,” Mr Price says, recalling the countless relatives who have died due to alcohol abuse.

“They just gave up the will to live, kept drinking until it was all over,” Mr Price says.

For some deaths in the family, Senator Price has been with the paramedics, helping them put a body in the body bag.

“So, Marcia Langton, you can threaten as much as you like, you can insult as much as you like, it’s like water off a duck’s back,” Mr Price says.

Ms Price recalled how Professor Langton labelled her daughter the “princess of assimilation” on referendum night.

“Well, Marcia wants to be the queen of all the blackfellas,” Mr Price responds with a laugh.

“It’s not working. Princess of assimilation, for god’s sake, because she’s saying we’re one community, we’re one country, we’re all in this together. She’s the princess of assimilation, where do these people come from?” he asks.

“Not the same planet I’m on.”

Ms Price says Professor Langton and Indigenous leader Megan Davis “don’t see any of that”.

“They would not care, because these people are out of mind and out of sight, but I took Jacinta, everyday, we’d go on weekends, we’d go and spend time in town camps, go out bush with them,” Ms Price says.

She claims she doesn’t think about whether her daughter will one day be prime minister.

“We’ll just back her, we’re just here as mum and dad, just to support her, to carry her, wherever she goes,” she says.

Mr Price is a little less restrained.

“As a father, it scares me because I know what that job can do to people, but I know she’s up to it and we’ll do what we can to support her if that’s the way she chooses to go,” he says.

“Watch out, Peter,” he adds, in a warning to Mr Dutton, the Opposition Leader, delivered with a chuckle.

The couple are acutely aware of what the top job would mean: their daughter already has an AFP detail watching over her.

But they say their daughter won’t be deterred by threats.

“Because of her experience … she’s lived through all of that, and she’s tired of seeing it still being played out without anybody trying to help these people get a better life, a safe environment for women and kids,” Ms Price says.

Mr Price adds: “These are women who don’t have megaphones. Their voices are deliberately suppressed by the organisations because they don’t agree with their narrative, and the ABC aren’t going to interview them.”

When the couple look at their daughter they see a little girl fiercely protecting her family in the face of an unspeakable tragedy. Jacinta was just four years old when her 10-year-old brother died of leukaemia.

Her parents believe it was a pivotal moment in making Senator Price the woman she is today.

“I believe that’s had a huge impact on her and made her extraordinarily emotionally tough,” Mr Price says. “She’s always had this huge reservoir of emotional courage, of emotional strength and moral courage.”

The couple remember the time in 1985 vividly. They moved to Adelaide so their son could receive care. Even now, nearly four decades on, they find it too painful to say his name and ask The Australian not to use it.

Ms Price and the young Jacinta stayed by his bedside at hospital while Mr Price worked as an education officer with the commonwealth department of education, working at supporting the schooling of Aboriginal students at all levels.

“It was a pretty bloody awful time – you’ll learn a hell of a lot about courage in a children’s oncology ward,” Mr Price says through tears.

“Kids with cancer are the bravest people in the whole bloody world. The way (Jacinta) said goodbye to him helped me, inspired me, helped me to cope with it, and she was four years old.

“Hugely loving, huge empathy and sympathy with those who are worse off than she is, or suffering, but an absolute grim determination to help them in whatever ways she can.

The Prices met in Yuendumu in 1976, where they were working at the same school. He was teaching in the bilingual program; she was a literacy production worker, producing Warlpiri literature, and later became a teacher’s assistant. In 2012, Ms Price was elected as a member of the NT Legislative Assembly, representing the electorate of Stuart, holding several portfolios including minister for community services in the Giles government. A few years later, her daughter was elected to the Alice Springs Town Council. They were the first Indigenous mother-daughter to be on two levels of government at the same time.

Ms Price is now assistant principal at Yipirinya school, an independent school for Aboriginal children in Alice Springs.

“Because of her experience, Jacinta has taken that role on to be that voice for them, and that’s why she’s so strong,” Ms Price says.

“She’s lived through all of that, and she’s tired of seeing it still being played out without anybody trying to help these people get a better life, a safe environment for women and kids.”

LIAM MENDES REPORTER

 
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