The Voice

[TimeISmoney]

Thanks mate. I think my advocacy for the no case has definitely changed the nation's opinion on this. I take full responsibility.

This could still backfire on the LNP. They might be seen to be the ones who killed the campaign, not just representing the general opinion.

But, if the vote fails, Labor are the ones to blame. They arogently went into this with a wet sail and just thought they could get away with running with a vibe. A much smarter approach would have been to legislate it first with a view to make constitutional recognition an election issue at the next poll. Maybe they considered this and realised the only hope of getting it through was to smash it through in the first term. But, it's obviously backfired in a big way. Not only will they fail in getting the Voice up but they've wrecked their first term in government to the extent that they might not get a second and Airbus' leadership will come into question. I would not be at all surprised if there's already Squealers chatter amongst the next level of leadership about who is going to depose him.

The most confounding thing about this is that the LNP leadership is not well liked. Dutton is hated and the country bloke is a tool as they most often are. If they had some likeable faces the no vote would be even more ahead.

And, closing the gap? There's only one group of people who can do that, but they don't want to leave the shade of their comfortable tree.

Albo made the big mistake of backing the Uluru statement as an election promise. Labor marketed it as best as they could and most of it was very foreign to them. Don't forget indigenous groups have been working on the Ululr statement for over 13 years, if they were stupid enough to think that everyone would vote for it on a whim, they have no one but themselves to blame. When you have people like Marcia Langton that think their **** doesn't stink, been on government handouts their whole life, won't even stand up at a footy match for the Australian Anthem, how did they think it will end?

 

[IFocus]

Thanks mate. I think my advocacy for the no case has definitely changed the nation's opinion on this. I take full responsibility.

Paul Kelly above lays it out above quite well without sticking it to the Coalition (of course) end result will be police officers and healthcare workers will continue to deal with the problem that Australians won’t.

That’s life

 

[SirRumpole]

Paul Kelly above lays it out above quite well without sticking it to the Coalition (of course) end result will be police officers and healthcare workers will continue to deal with the problem that Australians won’t.

That’s life

Crims are crims no matter what colour they are.

 

[farmerge]

Pretty much dead and buried going by the trend (never fight a trend in trading) so big political win to Dutton saying No, it will be interesting how voters treat Dutton down the road if they dump him like Abbott another No campaigner on everything but no vision on future requirements.

Oh well I guess no progress on Aboriginal matters I wonder where Labor goes now since it has paid a political cost for no result trying to make a change to help.

Meanwhile tax payers will keep pouring money in not knowing where or who to while the gap report continues to punch out stark numbers each year.

PS pat yourself on the back eh.

Such a shame my bung shoulder will not allow me the luxury of putting the arm over the back and giving oneself a pat.!!!!

 

[farmerge]

Thanks mate. I think my advocacy for the no case has definitely changed the nation's opinion on this. I take full responsibility.

This could still backfire on the LNP. They might be seen to be the ones who killed the campaign, not just representing the general opinion.

But, if the vote fails, Labor are the ones to blame. They arogently went into this with a wet sail and just thought they could get away with running with a vibe. A much smarter approach would have been to legislate it first with a view to make constitutional recognition an election issue at the next poll. Maybe they considered this and realised the only hope of getting it through was to smash it through in the first term. But, it's obviously backfired in a big way. Not only will they fail in getting the Voice up but they've wrecked their first term in government to the extent that they might not get a second and Airbus' leadership will come into question. I would not be at all surprised if there's already Squealers chatter amongst the next level of leadership about who is going to depose him.

The most confounding thing about this is that the LNP leadership is not well liked. Dutton is hated and the country bloke is a tool as they most often are. If they had some likeable faces the no vote would be even more ahead.

And, closing the gap? There's only one group of people who can do that, but they don't want to leave the shade of their comfortable tree.

And also sean whilst sitting, lying, comatoused under said tree contemplating through their well paid leaders when is the next payment coming for doing nothing.

 

[Smurf1976]

Pretty much dead and buried going by the trend (never fight a trend in trading) so big political win to Dutton saying No, it will be interesting how voters treat Dutton down the road if they dump him like Abbott another No campaigner on everything but no vision on future requirements.

Oh well I guess no progress on Aboriginal matters I wonder where Labor goes now since it has paid a political cost for no result trying to make a change to help.

Meanwhile tax payers will keep pouring money in not knowing where or who to while the gap report continues to punch out stark numbers each year.

PS pat yourself on the back eh.

My own political ideology is what I'll refer to as "old Labor". Stand up for the working class first and foremost. Noting that doesn't mean launching war on the middle and upper classes, it just means standing up for the workers.

I'll simply say my view is both sides of politics need to take a damn good look at themselves and ponder what they're aiming to achieve.

Who do they represent?

Why, apart from self-interest, do they want to be in government?

Any major reform in Australia is practically impossible at this point simply because Australian politics has descended into a complete mess. Both major parties have lost focus as to the reason for their existence as have most of the others.

The mistake wasn't in seeking to improve circumstances for Aboriginal people.

The mistake was Labor failing to grasp just how little political capital they have and that the public's distrust in politics is extremely high.

Labor's in government with a primary vote of 32.58% that's all. An election won on preferences, Labor recording its lowest primary vote since either 1903 or 1934 depending on whether the Lang Labor vote (1934) is included. That's not support for Labor, it's simply rejection of the Coalition. Labor won as the least bad option not because they actually have wide support.

Major reform, on any subject, is going to be extremely difficult until such time as a political party, any party, gains actual widespread support and trust from the people. We're nowhere near that at present.

Looking at this government, well they've spent effectively half their term primarily focused on the Voice whilst also managing to declare war on first home buyers, vapers, low and middle income consumers and now cats. Individually there may well be arguments for those things but taken collectively it continues an approach that's sent Labor's natural support base toward the Coalition.

 

[SirRumpole]

My own political ideology is what I'll refer to as "old Labor". Stand up for the working class first and foremost. Noting that doesn't mean launching war on the middle and upper classes, it just means standing up for the workers.

I'll simply say my view is both sides of politics need to take a damn good look at themselves and ponder what they're aiming to achieve.

Who do they represent?

Why, apart from self-interest, do they want to be in government?

Any major reform in Australia is practically impossible at this point simply because Australian politics has descended into a complete mess. Both major parties have lost focus as to the reason for their existence as have most of the others.

The mistake wasn't in seeking to improve circumstances for Aboriginal people.

The mistake was Labor failing to grasp just how little political capital they have and that the public's distrust in politics is extremely high.

Labor's in government with a primary vote of 32.58% that's all. An election won on preferences, Labor recording its lowest primary vote since either 1903 or 1934 depending on whether the Lang Labor vote (1934) is included. That's not support for Labor, it's simply rejection of the Coalition. Labor won as the least bad option not because they actually have wide support.

Major reform, on any subject, is going to be extremely difficult until such time as a political party, any party, gains actual widespread support and trust from the people. We're nowhere near that at present.

Looking at this government, well they've spent effectively half their term primarily focused on the Voice whilst also managing to declare war on first home buyers, vapers, low and middle income consumers and now cats. Individually there may well be arguments for those things but taken collectively it continues an approach that's sent Labor's natural support base toward the Coalition.

You summed it up beautifully Smurf, Parliament is dysfunctional because the extremists (Greens) put unrealistic demands on their cooperation and if we have to wait for the Voice to make their intentions known on any subject they want to talk about then the decision making process will be even further constricted.

What is needed is a leader who realises the priorities and focuses on fixing the problems in those areas which broadly means making life better for the majority no matter what race they are.

 

[Sean K]

Paul Kelly above lays it out above quite well without sticking it to the Coalition (of course) end result will be police officers and healthcare workers will continue to deal with the problem that Australians won’t.

That’s life

My record collection is getting thinner and thinner. If INXS or Crowded House jump on board I won't have anything left to play.

 

[JohnDe]

It's not over until it's over.

Pearson: Yes vote can 'absolutely' still win
Jess Malcolm

Indigenous leader Noel Pearson says the Yes campaign can “absolutely” still win enough support for an indigenous voice to parliament despite falling support in the polls.

Mr Pearson told the ABC’s Insiders program that the Yes side was the underdog in the debate and that gains for Indigenous people such as Native Title were hard fought and not easily won.

“We're three per cent of the population,” Mr Pearson said.
“We are the most powerless people in the country, with the weakest political constituency in the country, but through persuasion and through argument and through constant campaigning, we've managed to make gains.”

Mr Pearson said reasonable and decent Australians will vote to support the voice on October 14, as he attacked politicians for muddying the debate.

“I think when Australians concentrate on the real meaning of what's going on, they say, oh, that sounds pretty reasonable. That's something we can back. It's just that politics has entered the frame,” Mr Pearson said.

“Politics has extrapolated the true meaning of the advisory committee and made it into something else.”

 

[farmerge]

My own political ideology is what I'll refer to as "old Labor". Stand up for the working class first and foremost. Noting that doesn't mean launching war on the middle and upper classes, it just means standing up for the workers.

I'll simply say my view is both sides of politics need to take a damn good look at themselves and ponder what they're aiming to achieve.

Who do they represent?

Why, apart from self-interest, do they want to be in government?

Any major reform in Australia is practically impossible at this point simply because Australian politics has descended into a complete mess. Both major parties have lost focus as to the reason for their existence as have most of the others.

The mistake wasn't in seeking to improve circumstances for Aboriginal people.

The mistake was Labor failing to grasp just how little political capital they have and that the public's distrust in politics is extremely high.

Labor's in government with a primary vote of 32.58% that's all. An election won on preferences, Labor recording its lowest primary vote since either 1903 or 1934 depending on whether the Lang Labor vote (1934) is included. That's not support for Labor, it's simply rejection of the Coalition. Labor won as the least bad option not because they actually have wide support.

Major reform, on any subject, is going to be extremely difficult until such time as a political party, any party, gains actual widespread support and trust from the people. We're nowhere near that at present.

Looking at this government, well they've spent effectively half their term primarily focused on the Voice whilst also managing to declare war on first home buyers, vapers, low and middle income consumers and now cats. Individually there may well be arguments for those things but taken collectively it continues an approach that's sent Labor's natural support base toward the Coalition.

Mr Smurf no disagreement from me on this.
My view of poltics of recent times, is it is a good earner, just keep getting re-elected, do the necessary bum warming for a number of years, leave with an exttremely generous pension, and then land another well paid job elsewhere.
Generally, after those years of going aye or nay what has been achieved, not much.

 

[TimeISmoney]

It's like a runaway freight train and then they want people to vote for the Voice.

Redlands native title claim targets 3500 sites across council area​

A major South East Queensland council faces a $210m fight to keep control of thousands of sites, including sporting club grounds and popular foreshore parklands, as a landmark native title claim heads towards a lengthy court showdown.

Some 3500 sites over 530sq km of the mainland Redlands Coast are subject to a native title claim by the Quandamooka people, in a case that could rewrite national precedent.
First lodged in May 2017 by elders Evelyn Parkin and Uncle Bob Anderson, the Quandamooka Coast claim covers areas including the popular Cleveland and Victoria Point foreshores, sporting club grounds, the Redlands Performing Arts Centre, council chambers and cemetery.
The Federal Court will later this year start considering whether the Indigenous applicants’ connection to country under the native title act exists, with compensation, exclusive and non-exclusive access rights possible compensation.
Such a claim over heavily developed and popular community sites is yet to be tested, with this case one that could set a precedent for others, a Redland City Council spokesman said.
“The Quandamooka Coast claim is one of the first to be made over a densely populated area with a European settlement history dating back to the 1800s,” he said.
A finding in favour of the applicants could see Indigenous Australians handed exclusive native title rights, the council spokesman said.

This means they will have the right to possess, occupy and use an area to the exclusion of all others,” he said.

In areas where non-exclusive native title is determined, the Quandamooka applicants could be granted the right to live and camp, hunt, light fires and conduct cultural activities, including burials, on the land.

Native title over Minjerribah (North Stradbroke Island) and Mulgumpin (Moreton Island) was granted to the Quandamooka people in 2011 and 2019 respectively.

On Minjerribah, native title has led to concerns about widespread land clearing, a lack of transparency and public areas being fenced off from the council and non-Indigenous people.

Insiders fear parklands on the mainland will suffer the same fate if native title is determined, with the council effectively powerless.

Efforts to narrow the list of properties subject to the latest Quandamooka Coast native title claim broke down earlier this year when the applicants and Redland City Council, mediated and supported by the state government, failed to agree on a Consent Determination – a document agreeing what sites would be subject to the claim.

The fate of 3500 public parklands and council sites are now set to be determined at a Federal Court trial from November.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/redlands-native-title-claim-targets-3500-sites-across-council-area/news-story/6f60cdab335ec2410f041539d91c10a8?amp

 

[SirRumpole]

It's like a runaway freight train and then they want people to vote for the Voice.

Redlands native title claim targets 3500 sites across council area​

A major South East Queensland council faces a $210m fight to keep control of thousands of sites, including sporting club grounds and popular foreshore parklands, as a landmark native title claim heads towards a lengthy court showdown.

Some 3500 sites over 530sq km of the mainland Redlands Coast are subject to a native title claim by the Quandamooka people, in a case that could rewrite national precedent.
First lodged in May 2017 by elders Evelyn Parkin and Uncle Bob Anderson, the Quandamooka Coast claim covers areas including the popular Cleveland and Victoria Point foreshores, sporting club grounds, the Redlands Performing Arts Centre, council chambers and cemetery.
The Federal Court will later this year start considering whether the Indigenous applicants’ connection to country under the native title act exists, with compensation, exclusive and non-exclusive access rights possible compensation.
Such a claim over heavily developed and popular community sites is yet to be tested, with this case one that could set a precedent for others, a Redland City Council spokesman said.
“The Quandamooka Coast claim is one of the first to be made over a densely populated area with a European settlement history dating back to the 1800s,” he said.
A finding in favour of the applicants could see Indigenous Australians handed exclusive native title rights, the council spokesman said.

This means they will have the right to possess, occupy and use an area to the exclusion of all others,” he said.

In areas where non-exclusive native title is determined, the Quandamooka applicants could be granted the right to live and camp, hunt, light fires and conduct cultural activities, including burials, on the land.

Native title over Minjerribah (North Stradbroke Island) and Mulgumpin (Moreton Island) was granted to the Quandamooka people in 2011 and 2019 respectively.

On Minjerribah, native title has led to concerns about widespread land clearing, a lack of transparency and public areas being fenced off from the council and non-Indigenous people.

Insiders fear parklands on the mainland will suffer the same fate if native title is determined, with the council effectively powerless.

Efforts to narrow the list of properties subject to the latest Quandamooka Coast native title claim broke down earlier this year when the applicants and Redland City Council, mediated and supported by the state government, failed to agree on a Consent Determination – a document agreeing what sites would be subject to the claim.

The fate of 3500 public parklands and council sites are now set to be determined at a Federal Court trial from November.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/redlands-native-title-claim-targets-3500-sites-across-council-area/news-story/6f60cdab335ec2410f041539d91c10a8?amp

I was under the impression that native title could only be claimed over unused Crown land, this is obviously not the case.

Things appear to have gone too far.

 

[farmerge]

I was under the impression that native title could only be claimed over unused Crown land, this is obviously not the case.

Things appear to have gone too far.

Way too far. Soon what we have worked so hard to get over the years will/could be wiped away with the stroke of a pen. Having said that, if we do lose how will these lazy picks be able to get the social benefits (cash) that is so generously given, if there is little or no income being generated by the workers.

 

[Sean K]

It's like a runaway freight train and then they want people to vote for the Voice.

Redlands native title claim targets 3500 sites across council area​

A major South East Queensland council faces a $210m fight to keep control of thousands of sites, including sporting club grounds and popular foreshore parklands, as a landmark native title claim heads towards a lengthy court showdown.

Some 3500 sites over 530sq km of the mainland Redlands Coast are subject to a native title claim by the Quandamooka people, in a case that could rewrite national precedent.
First lodged in May 2017 by elders Evelyn Parkin and Uncle Bob Anderson, the Quandamooka Coast claim covers areas including the popular Cleveland and Victoria Point foreshores, sporting club grounds, the Redlands Performing Arts Centre, council chambers and cemetery.
The Federal Court will later this year start considering whether the Indigenous applicants’ connection to country under the native title act exists, with compensation, exclusive and non-exclusive access rights possible compensation.
Such a claim over heavily developed and popular community sites is yet to be tested, with this case one that could set a precedent for others, a Redland City Council spokesman said.
“The Quandamooka Coast claim is one of the first to be made over a densely populated area with a European settlement history dating back to the 1800s,” he said.
A finding in favour of the applicants could see Indigenous Australians handed exclusive native title rights, the council spokesman said.

This means they will have the right to possess, occupy and use an area to the exclusion of all others,” he said.

In areas where non-exclusive native title is determined, the Quandamooka applicants could be granted the right to live and camp, hunt, light fires and conduct cultural activities, including burials, on the land.

Native title over Minjerribah (North Stradbroke Island) and Mulgumpin (Moreton Island) was granted to the Quandamooka people in 2011 and 2019 respectively.

On Minjerribah, native title has led to concerns about widespread land clearing, a lack of transparency and public areas being fenced off from the council and non-Indigenous people.

Insiders fear parklands on the mainland will suffer the same fate if native title is determined, with the council effectively powerless.

Efforts to narrow the list of properties subject to the latest Quandamooka Coast native title claim broke down earlier this year when the applicants and Redland City Council, mediated and supported by the state government, failed to agree on a Consent Determination – a document agreeing what sites would be subject to the claim.

The fate of 3500 public parklands and council sites are now set to be determined at a Federal Court trial from November.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/redlands-native-title-claim-targets-3500-sites-across-council-area/news-story/6f60cdab335ec2410f041539d91c10a8?amp

Could the English have done something different when colonising Australia to have prevented this?

 

[TimeISmoney]

I was under the impression that native title could only be claimed over unused Crown land, this is obviously not the case.

Things appear to have gone too far.

Labor won't fund the local councils to challenge it either, yet they handed over millions for the indigenous to. I can tell you there'll be a lot of backlash from this.

 

[sptrawler]

I was under the impression that native title could only be claimed over unused Crown land, this is obviously not the case.

Things appear to have gone too far.

If, as has been mentioned, the aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders do gain a defined percentage of GDP.
That would really amount to our future generations, being financially enslaved on the basis of race, interesting times.
As I have said previously, IMO a negotiated compensation payment should be made and then the country move forward as one society.
It will be entertaining to watch how this all unfolds, I don't think it is going down well ATM.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Could the English have done something different when colonising Australia to have prevented this?

The thing I see is current innocent people will be paying the toll for previous governments that have nothing to do with them. The other thing is that they don't want to share usage of the land unless there's some type of monetary gain in it for them. The writings are on the wall, they'll end up like the Native American Indians, where everyone just ignores them because of all the claims they try to make. Labor won't be in charge forever and this type of thinking will bring a rise in support for people like Pauline Hanson. Are the short term gains worth it in the long run for them, most people will not forget this.

 

[SirRumpole]

If, as has been mentioned, the aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders do gain a defined percentage of GDP.

The impression is that aboriginal people keep taking without giving much in return.

They should have the same benefits and responsibilities as the rest of us. If they want something, then work for it like everyone else.

They have the chance to move away from myths and superstitions and into the modern world, they would be silly not to take the opportunity.

 

[TimeISmoney]

The impression is that aboriginal people keep taking without giving much in return.

They should have the same benefits and responsibilities as the rest of us. If they want something, then work for it like everyone else.

They have the chance to move away from myths and superstitions and into the modern world, they would be silly not to take the opportunity.

They don't even pay land rates or land tax on native title land, and I bet you in a few years to come most of it will be turned into freehold and they can do with it as they please, sell it off, and or use it for commercial purposes. All these people who will be voting yes, wait until they go to use their favourite national park that they've been using practically free for years and then have to pay some extra fee or be locked out altogether.

 

[Sean K]

They don't even pay land rates or land tax on native title land, and I bet you in a few years to come most of it will be turned into freehold and they can do with it as they please, sell it off, and or use it for commercial purposes. All these people who will be voting yes, wait until they go to use their favourite national park that they've been using practically free for years and then have to pay some extra fee or be locked out altogether.



View attachment 162277

We'll be paying for beach, ocean and river access too. Anyone thinking that's mis or dis information is blind and/or dumb.