The state of the economy at the street level

sptrawler · 3 July 2019

There is absolutely no reason high tech industries can't be built here, why we export rare earths, lithium, cadmium, nickel etc, to be processed and turned into batteries and electronic components overseas is ridiculous.
The processes are not labour intensive and the component factories are in large fully automated, so the cost of labour really isn't a consideration.
The cost of energy is obviously a concern, that needs addressing.

Value Collector · 3 July 2019

Klogg said:
In line with your post, I would argue that it must happen. If you're not competitive in an industry, the required subsidies will continue to grow until it's just too costly to prop up.

If Australia were producing EVERYTHING it needed, standards of living would drop way too much.

You only have to look at North Korea to see isolationist attitudes don’t work.

SirRumpole · 3 July 2019

satanoperca said:
What happens when we no longer choose their side, will they be so friendly.

What side do you suggest we choose ?

satanoperca said:
How about you remove all the items that you use daily that have not come from China and see how your week fairs.

If you need something and all the products come from China you don't have much choice do you ?

I avoid Chinese products whenever I can especially food.

PS you are welcome to move there if you think it's so great.

Smurf1976 · 3 July 2019

Value Collector said:
You only have to look at North Korea to see isolationist attitudes don’t work.

No argument there but you only have to look at the USA to see what happens with the opposite of minimal regulation. Go and walk the streets in some poorer areas at night - actually don't do that.....

There has to be a balance somewhere and it'll be somewhere in the middle not at either extreme.

Isolationist = North Korea as you point out.

No regulation = industry just moves to exploit cheap labour and lax standards over safety and the environment

Neither ought to be considered acceptable these days.

The point isn't about China as such though but about how things are going here in Australia and that lack of higher wage jobs and growth of low wage service industry roles does seem to be a very real problem.

Tyler Durden · 3 July 2019

Haven't checked this site for ages and am glad this thread is still going.

For my part, I have noticed quite a few stores shutting down in Sydney CBD. Some remain vacant with a 'for lease' sign on it, and others are replaced by another store selling the same type of stuff the previous store sold (makes sense!).

I also collect sneakers and whilst in 2014-2016 everyone was buying everything, it seems like now people are a lot more selective and are willing to sell their collections at a loss.

Junior · 4 July 2019

Spoke with a client of ours, who has a senior role in a group who own a number of clothing & apparel brands. They supply to major department stores and have chains of their own stores.

In her words, "don't buy shares in Wesfarmers, Kmart & Target are f*cked".

It should be noted she knows nothing about investing or about Wesfarmers other business ventures, but she does know about clothing businesses.

HelloU · 4 July 2019

chicks that talk dirty .....

moXJO · 4 July 2019

Apparently we are in a trade surplus. Iron ore to China must be pumping again.
Also Aluminum exports to the US are up by 350%.

Trump had a tepid whinge. But the USA knows if they stiff us, then they are out of Asia. China is keeping us onside with good trade.
Perhaps good times are coming again sooner than expected.

Locally, the restaurant and cafes are quiet. Noticed a bit of a bounce to some retail. Perhaps June 30 spending. But still looks fairly tough out there.

PZ99 · 4 July 2019

If the USA stiff us, we should recover the loss dollar for dollar by withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan citing a budget emergency

moXJO · 4 July 2019

As for globalization of trade, I'm in two minds.
Cheaper goods, yep ok. Problem is there seems to be a lack of quality as decent manufacturers can't compete. We are then left with sht disposable products with an ever growing waste problem/ product failure.

We are also off shoring pollution. Most poorer countries are just pumping crap into the air, land and sea. They do not have the restrictions on pollution the same way western countries do.

China steals the tech and its a massive problem. To operate there you have to give them everything.

We now probably live in a more dangerous world because of globalization.

moXJO · 4 July 2019

PZ99 said:
If the USA stiff us, we should recover the loss dollar for dollar by withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan citing a budget emergency

US knows they can't p1ss us off. No offense to them. But their country is divided and looking like a basket case. Russia troll farms really did a number on them.
No wonder China banned social media.

satanoperca · 4 July 2019

moXJO said:
Cheaper goods, yep ok. Problem is there seems to be a lack of quality as decent manufacturers can't compete. We are then left with sht disposable products with an ever growing waste problem/ product failure.

We live in a disposable society of I want it now but maybe not later, so I don't want to spend much.

Your are correct, quality manufacturers can't compete. The furniture manufacturing sector in Oz is almost dead. Why, they cannot compete on cheap imports is one reason. Another is people don't buy furniture to last a lifetime anymore, as fashions change. Just think of Ikea, cheap, reasonably good design, okay quality, disposable. Do Ikea pay for the landfill, or do Ikea even pay any taxes in Australia? How is a local to compete?

As for the common theme of China stealing IP, they most likely do, however, from my experiences, it is westerners that take other peoples IP to China and ask the Chinese to duplicate it/replicate it. So there is always two parties to a transaction.

I think if people research more, they will find that China is spending enormous amounts on R&D and design in all industry sectors, they will become the world leaders in innovation.

A simple example is the area of LED production, the USA thought they would dominate the production of LED's over 10 years ago, however China is the one leading this area in innovation and production.

Value Collector · 4 July 2019

Smurf1976 said:
No argument there but you only have to look at the USA to see what happens with the opposite of minimal regulation. Go and walk the streets in some poorer areas at night - actually don't do that.....

There has to be a balance somewhere and it'll be somewhere in the middle not at either extreme.

Isolationist = North Korea as you point out.

No regulation = industry just moves to exploit cheap labour and lax standards over safety and the environment

Neither ought to be considered acceptable these days.

The point isn't about China as such though but about how things are going here in Australia and that lack of higher wage jobs and growth of low wage service industry roles does seem to be a very real problem.

I have never said I was against regulation, I am against nationalistic and isolationist thinking.

I also am totally in favor of welfare safety nets etc, which is where the USA’s real problem lies.

Klogg · 4 July 2019

satanoperca said:
We live in a disposable society of I want it now but maybe not later, so I don't want to spend much.

Your are correct, quality manufacturers can't compete. The furniture manufacturing sector in Oz is almost dead. Why, they cannot compete on cheap imports is one reason. Another is people don't buy furniture to last a lifetime anymore, as fashions change. Just think of Ikea, cheap, reasonably good design, okay quality, disposable. Do Ikea pay for the landfill, or do Ikea even pay any taxes in Australia? How is a local to compete?

As for the common theme of China stealing IP, they most likely do, however, from my experiences, it is westerners that take other peoples IP to China and ask the Chinese to duplicate it/replicate it. So there is always two parties to a transaction.

I think if people research more, they will find that China is spending enormous amounts on R&D and design in all industry sectors, they will become the world leaders in innovation.

A simple example is the area of LED production, the USA thought they would dominate the production of LED's over 10 years ago, however China is the one leading this area in innovation and production.

Your argument assumes price and quality are synonymous. They're not.

I would argue the quality of furniture hasn't changed, your perception of it has changed due to the cost reduction. Ikea furniture is relatively decent quality (given the flat-pack nature of it). There's no reason for it to be 'disposable' and if it wasn't so cheap very few people would think that to be the case.

Value Collector · 4 July 2019

I love the USA, I think it’s a great nation, of course it does have issues, but it does a hell of a job of moving products and services around, and suppling a high standard of living for most.

It just needs to do better about making sure people aren’t left behind, but there is some crazy ideological problems to over come.

SirRumpole · 4 July 2019

Value Collector said:
I love the USA, I think it’s a great nation, of course it does have issues, but it does a hell of a job of moving products and services around, and suppling a high standard of living for most.

It just needs to do better about making sure people aren’t left behind, but there is some crazy ideological problems to over come.

Are you touting for the Democrats ?

Value Collector · 4 July 2019

SirRumpole said:
Are you touting for the Democrats ?

Of course, I think what is Considered Left in the USA is much closer to what we would call middle or slightly right which is where I sit.

America’s Republican Party has evolved into a far right wing party in my opinion, our government is much closer to the USA Democratic Party in their views mostly.

Not to mention Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is smart, funny and much more beautiful than Trump, Hahahaha

SirRumpole · 4 July 2019

Value Collector said:
Of course, I think what is Considered Left in the USA is much closer to what we would call middle or slightly right which is where I sit.

America’s Republican Party has evolved into a far right wing party in my opinion, our government is much closer to the USA Democratic Party in their views mostly.

Not to mention Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is smart, funny and much more beautiful than Trump, Hahahaha

Yep, pretty close to my views too.

Although Bernie could win, not a lot of beauty there but more than Trump. LOL

HelloU · 4 July 2019

Value Collector said:
Of course, I think what is Considered Left in the USA is much closer to what we would call middle or slightly right which is where I sit.

America’s Republican Party has evolved into a far right wing party in my opinion, our government is much closer to the USA Democratic Party in their views mostly.

Not to mention Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is smart, funny and much more beautiful than Trump, Hahahaha

if i said i have seen both of them naked and it is closer than you think - would you believe me?

edit: all 3

Value Collector · 4 July 2019

HelloU said:
if i said i have seen both of them naked and it is closer than you think - would you believe me?

edit: all 3

Hahaha,.... No.

The state of the economy at the street level

sptrawler

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

SirRumpole

Smurf1976

Tyler Durden

Junior

HelloU

moXJO

menace to society

PZ99

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

moXJO

menace to society

moXJO

menace to society

satanoperca

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Klogg

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

SirRumpole

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

SirRumpole

HelloU

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

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