The Science Thread

[Value Collector]

 

[Value Collector]

This relates to a topic discussed in another thread.

It shows that splitting a brain, can result in two separate personalities being present inside one body. which brings up a whole host of questions for those people that believe their personality is not the result of the brain, but instead part of their "soul", e.g. does splitting the brain cause the soul to be split? does it make a new soul appear? or is there no such thing as a soul, and what we call the soul is just the brain?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

does it make a new soul appear? or is there no such thing as a soul, and what we call the soul is just the brain?

In many traditions, the soul is the same as the Akashic record. After death, the record attracts a new body in accord with unmet desires in this life. Who knows? Anything's possible.

 

[Value Collector]

In many traditions, the soul is the same as the Akashic record. After death, the record attracts a new body in accord with unmet desires in this life. .

But is there any evidence that suggests that is true, and not just a fictional story?

Anything's possible

How do you know any thing is possible? to me it seems logical that many things might be impossible, and "anything is possible" is a claim that would require evidence.

It seems impossible that a mind can exist independent of a physical brain.

 

[SirRumpole]

It seems impossible that a mind can exist independent of a physical brain.

You can buy a copy of Windows 10 separately from a PC, but one is useless without the other.

 

[Value Collector]

You can buy a copy of Windows 10 separately from a PC, but one is useless without the other.

I don't think thats the best analogy.

The analogy of the brain being hardware is fine, but the mind isn't the software, its the end result of the "software" and "hardware" so to speak.

e.g. end result of the program running on your computer is not the software itself, its a property of the software.

But either way, hardware and software are still physical things, and as I said a mind there is no evidence of a mind existing outside of a physical brain, its all based on the physical.

 

[SirRumpole]

But either way, hardware and software are still physical things,

Software is not physical, it's a set of instructions. It can be held or transferred in a variety of ways, but it is actually a product of a mind, so maybe our software is a product of a mind unknown to us.

 

[cynic]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study/
I think this might have some relevance to the latest discussion.

The only thing that surprises me is that science has taken so terribly long to just begin to acknowledge, the existence of such phenomena, despite same having been anecdotally reported by mankind throughout the centuries.

 

[SirRumpole]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study/
I think this might have some relevance to the latest discussion.

The only thing that surprises me is that science has taken so terribly long to just begin to acknowledge, the existence of such phenomena, despite same having been anecdotally reported by mankind throughout the centuries.

Interesting.

It's pretty hard to explain an experience of someone describing what actually happened while they were unconscious, other than to accept mind/body separation.

 

[SirRumpole]

Shocking research on brain performance.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...c-shock-to-make-it-perform/8822400?technology

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[cynic]

Interesting.

It's pretty hard to explain an experience of someone describing what actually happened while they were unconscious, other than to accept mind/body separation.

It certainly presents a challenge to some of the popular conceptions(or dare I say it - misconceptions!) about the relationship (or absence thereof) between consciousness and the physical brain.

 

[Value Collector]

Software is not physical, it's a set of instructions. It can be held or transferred in a variety of ways, but it is actually a product of a mind, so maybe our software is a product of a mind unknown to us.

Software is physical, the "set of instructions" exists in a physical form, yes it can be copied, from a physical medium to another physical medium, but it always is physical, whether its on a physical cd or physical hard drive , and it most exist on a physical medium, and it requires a physical medium to run.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Interesting.

It's pretty hard to explain an experience of someone describing what actually happened while they were unconscious, other than to accept mind/body separation.

What about those who can exist in 'witness mode' whilst unconscious? Such people exist, apparently.

 

[Value Collector]

Interesting.

It's pretty hard to explain an experience of someone describing what actually happened while they were unconscious, other than to accept mind/body separation.

Interesting.

It's pretty hard to explain an experience of someone describing what actually happened while they were unconscious, other than to accept mind/body separation.

I don't find such stories impressive at all, I mean it seems normal to me that a brain in distress during the process of dying, might experience all sorts of things some real some imagined.

I have dreams all the time that include sounds that I can hear in my sleep.

for example I have dreamed that I was sitting in the lounge room listening to my alarm clock go off, before final waking up in bed and turning my alarm clock off, there is no reason to believe I was actually in the lounge room in some non physical way any more than any other dream I have had, e.g just because I dream about playing with Jennifer Lawrence does mean I actually did, its just my imagination running wild during dream state.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't find such stories impressive at all,

Because they don't support your pre existing beliefs.

If people can give an accurate explanation of what goes on around them while they are unconscious then I think we should accept that there is more going on than just a physical brain.

 

[Value Collector]

If people can give an accurate explanation of what goes on around them while they are unconscious then I think we should accept that there is more going on than just a physical brain.

Why would you jump to that conclusion, first you would have to rule out a host of other possibilities.

1, Did the person actually have zero brain function? or are we just assuming they had no brain function?

I doubt they had the person on a brain scanner, so we can't say for sure. But it is possible that a person that is unconscious can still hear conversations and other sounds that give them certain information, enough information to form a some what accurate lucid dream.

2, It can be same with talking to psychics, people tend to count all the information the psychic says that they can relate to, but forget all the things that don't add up.

 

[SirRumpole]

Why would you jump to that conclusion, first you would have to rule out a host of other possibilities.

1, Did the person actually have zero brain function? or are we just assuming they had no brain function?

I doubt they had the person on a brain scanner, so we can't say for sure. But it is possible that a person that is unconscious can still hear conversations and other sounds that give them certain information, enough information to form a some what accurate lucid dream.

2, It can be same with talking to psychics, people tend to count all the information the psychic says that they can relate to, but forget all the things that don't add up.

We can't even remember what goes on around us when we are asleep, let alone with almost no brain function.

 

[Value Collector]

We can't even remember what goes on around us when we are asleep, let alone with almost no brain function.

At certain stages of sleep people can be aware of things going on around them, as I said I often have dreams where sounds from the real world filter in and become part of my dreams, I have had everything from the alarm clock, the neighbours lawn mower, dog barking, ambulance sirens and even the chatter of visitors all became parts of my dreams.

But, also who says the type of unconsciousness a dying brain is experiencing is the same as a sleeping brain, What if as the brain is dying it goes into some last ditched survival mode and fights to get information and form it into some sort of understanding of whats going on around it.

there are loads of possible explanations, the fact the person wakes up from a "near death experience" shows they weren't actually dead, and their brain could of been doing all sorts of things.

 

[SirRumpole]

At certain stages of sleep people can be aware of things going on around them, as I said I often have dreams sounds from the real world filter in and become part of my dreams, I have had everything from the alarm clock, the neighbours lawn mower, dog barking, ambulance sirens and even the chatter of visitors all became parts of my dreams.

So has anyone validated that these dreams represented reality after you woke up ?

If not , they are just dreams.

 

[Value Collector]

So has anyone validated that these dreams represented reality after you woke up ?

If not , they are just dreams.

Yes, and I have also validated them myself, e.g. woken up and found my grandmother in the kitchen talking to family, or woken up and heard the lawn mower / alarm clock etc still going on, even though I dreamed for a few minutes a lucid dream that included these sounds.

But, I think what you have to understand is that the brain can often collect and process information unconsciously with out you realising it, for example there are Blind people that experience "Blind Sight", eyes are healthy, but their brains cannot show them images, but certain tests show that their brain still processes the information collected without them being aware of it, and they can know things without "seeing them"

It doesn't seem impossible to me that an unconscious persons brain might still be collecting information if their eyes and ears are still open, and some of that information can be recalled later of becomes part of a dream.