The Role of Government? Which areas should spending be cut from?

[Rafa]

The purpose of this thread is two fold....
1. even tho I voted labor, I am a firm believer in small govt and I am hoping that Rudd can deliver. (the howard govt's spending was described by access economics yesterday as 'whitlamesq' , and certainly Costello was not impressed by Howards philanthropy)

2. with the recent labour shortages and bottlenecks, now is the right time to have a lean and mean govt.

To start off with, i'm pro the tax cuts, and in fact would like to see that go further... but what I would like to see is the tax cuts being funded from savings, rather than simply handing back once in a life time company tax, which is not only unsustainable but fuels inflation.

Access Economics is warning the new Federal Government that the tax cuts it promised will boost interest rates. The Coalition promised $34 billion in tax cuts and the Labor Party matched $31 billion of that pledge.

But Access Economics says delivering on those commitments will push up interest rates unless there are extra spending cuts. It says adding another tax cut to an economy already at full stretch does not boost the size of the economy and create more jobs. Instead it brings a bigger import bill and higher prices.

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Mr Richardson says the Government should look at means-testing some welfare spending and finding savings in national security.

"It is politically difficult," he said. "Partly it's difficult because people understand the need for tough decision when things are tough, but they don't understand the need for tough decisions when things are prosperous as we are now.

"We saw the big spending by the Coalition in recent years pushing up interest rates. "The Government's inherited the same policy mix. It needs to break that stance."

Treasurer Wayne Swan says wasteful spending in recent years means this Government has inherited a substantial inflation challenge. He says it has strengthened his resolve to identify savings above the $10 billion Labor's already found.

In the 7:30 report last night, the chap interviewed said at least 10b a year in saving need to be identified...

So.... What do you see is the role of Govt.... which should lead into the next question... where should govt spending be cut from?

My Answer...

As I put briefly in another thread.... in my opinion, Govt's need to focus on a few key things

1. Education
2. Health
3. Security (national, local and personal)
4. Social Safety Net
5. Infrastructure (Water, Electricity, Communications (roads, rail, broadband), etc)
6. Various laws, rules and regulations (basic IR rules, criminal law, torts law, competition/consumer laws, environmental laws, etc).


That is it... The rest should be left to individuals.... Middle class welfare HAS TO GO. All govt services provided to individuals (as per Social Safety Net) should be on a voucher based system, not cash. If special assistance for those with children has to be provided, that should be on a voucher based system too.

Is there anything else that they should be doing??

And, what would the govt budget then look like, and how many more people would be available in the workforce then? Could it also then be possible to simplify the tax system, to have a simple two tier system, or even a flat tax like company tax?

Comments appreciated…
PS: and yes, I know I am dreaming cause this ain’t ever going to happen…

 

[Sprinter79]

Re: The Role of Government? Which areas should govt spending be cut from?

I for one don't actually support tax cuts *puts up flame proof shield*

Cut funding from defence, with our ****ty armed force we might as well be without one...

 

[chops_a_must]

Middle class welfare HAS TO GO.

That's pretty much it. There are so many things that have been so chronically underfunded, I'm not sure where cuts can be made. Health and education obviously need massive cash injections for instance...

 

[greggy]

The purpose of this thread is two fold....
1. even tho I voted labor, I am a firm believer in small govt and I am hoping that Rudd can deliver. (the howard govt's spending was described by access economics yesterday as 'whitlamesq' , and certainly Costello was not impressed by Howards philanthropy)

2. with the recent labour shortages and bottlenecks, now is the right time to have a lean and mean govt.

To start off with, i'm pro the tax cuts, and in fact would like to see that go further... but what I would like to see is the tax cuts being funded from savings, rather than simply handing back once in a life time company tax, which is not only unsustainable but fuels inflation.



In the 7:30 report last night, the chap interviewed said at least 10b a year in saving need to be identified...

So.... What do you see is the role of Govt.... which should lead into the next question... where should govt spending be cut from?

My Answer...

As I put briefly in another thread.... in my opinion, Govt's need to focus on a few key things

1. Education
2. Health
3. Security (national, local and personal)
4. Social Safety Net
5. Infrastructure (Water, Electricity, Communications (roads, rail, broadband), etc)
6. Various laws, rules and regulations (basic IR rules, criminal law, torts law, competition/consumer laws, environmental laws, etc).


That is it... The rest should be left to individuals.... Middle class welfare HAS TO GO. All govt services provided to individuals (as per Social Safety Net) should be on a voucher based system, not cash. If special assistance for those with children has to be provided, that should be on a voucher based system too.

Is there anything else that they should be doing??

And, what would the govt budget then look like, and how many more people would be available in the workforce then? Could it also then be possible to simplify the tax system, to have a simple two tier system, or even a flat tax like company tax?

Comments appreciated…
PS: and yes, I know I am dreaming cause this ain’t ever going to happen…

Hi Rafa,

"That is it... The rest should be left to individuals...." You seem to have left Defence out of the equation. But there again I suppose we can all go out to buy cricket bats to fight the enemy when it arrives at our shores. LOL! I for one hope that they make improvements in the areas of health and education.

 

[Rafa]

Hi Greggy, I did that under point 3... defence.... (national)



Sprinter, The thing about the tax cuts, is that it is the best way to stop govt from getting bloated... Is there another way...?

I remember a while back there was an article about scandinavian countries and their version of the 'future fund'.... where all company profits from the boooming resource sector was actualy put straight into that for investment, rather than going into govt coffers.

I would support that, instead of a tax cut, but given that we don't have that yet, a tax cut is the only way of making sure they don't come up with new ways of spending it.


As far a health and education go, there is a lot of room to increase spending there... and have the tax cut... things i would target are
1. First Home Owners Grant - esp for home over 400k
2. Medicare Safety Net (in lieu of a better universal health system full stop)
3. Private Medicare Rebate (what exactly is the point of that, certainly that money can also be funneled into the common health budget)
4. Govt Advertisement
5. Commonwealth State Reform (apparently properly demarking the areas of responsibility can save billions... can't find source at the moment).
6. Education grants on a needs based model (heck, even some of the rich private schools are saying we don't need any more money... but certainly there are plenty of poor private schools that need help, just like public schools)
7. Baby Bonus!!! (What the hell is that!!!)


I would say conservatively, that is at least 5billion a year...

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: The Role of Government? Which areas should govt spending be cut from?

I for one don't actually support tax cuts *puts up flame proof shield*

I noticed yesterday on the radio a 2 second bite ... someone hoisted a trial kite about a possible (though extremely improbable) rise / adjustment to the GST.

(as you say sprinter...) ...... *puts up flame proof shield*

PS I'm not saying yay or nay here - just speculating aloud.

 

[Sprinter79]

You can't get rid of the first home owners grant for properties more than 400K. I can't even buy a crappy dog box on a cricket pitch in one of Perth's dodgiest suburbs (Coolbellup) for that.

Obviously, there needs to be tightening of the 't & c' for this scheme, and much needs to be done to stop those buying houses in their toddler's name.

Working in the public service, even with a booming economy here in WA, we're operating on Changi rations. Our new pens in the office all have those stupid link chains on them, like you get in the bank.... because they were the cheapest ones!!!

 

[Rafa]

spending crackdowns only just beginning...

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22995956-953,00.html

Public servants to lose massage perk
PUBLIC servants will be ordered to pay for their own massages after chalking up more than $200,000 in taxpayer-funded rub downs.
The practice was widespread under the former Howard government, with the former prime minister's own department enjoying more than $6000 worth of back rubs at taxpayers' expense.

Figures tabled in Federal Parliament show the government's total massage bill in 2004 topped $108,710 – the equivalent of about $200 worth of massages per public servant.

In 2005, at least $89,000 was spent on publicly funded rub downs for the nation's bureaucrats.

Assistant Treasurer Chris Bowen has previously labelled the practice a "blatant waste of expenditure". Mr Bowen's spokesman this week said the minister would be advising his agency heads that massages were not an appropriate use of taxpayers' funds.

Other ministers are expected to follow Mr Bowen's lead and ban taxpayer-funded massages as the Rudd administration moves to clamp down on government largesse and wastage.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has already set up a razor gang to save taxpayers billions of dollars in wasted expenditure in order to take pressure off inflation and interest rates.

The Courier-Mail reported last week how Australian diplomats feared losing millions of dollars in taxpayer-funded perks in the drive to slash spending. Australian embassy staff enjoy some of the best perks in the public service, including access to 37 taxpayer-funded holiday houses.

 

[2020hindsight]

The practice was widespread under the former Howard government, with the former prime minister's own department enjoying more than $6000 worth of back rubs at taxpayers' expense.

Is that with or without GST raf?

 

[Rafa]

Is that with or without GST raf?

hehe
this is all small bikies...

i think the big savings from direct govt spending are the promised 30% reduction in staffing levels in the ministers office (ministerial staffers and advisors), and the reduction in govt advertising...

that should be 100's of millions straight away...

 

[treefrog]

no good tinkering around the edges - scap the lot and start again

e.g.

suppose you were one of only 6 shipwrecked (or aircrash etc etc) that made it safely to an isolated island.
Your mutal assessment was that you would only survive if you used the local resources as rescue was improbable.
at the end of a year your community was thriving, individuals were fishing, gathering, growing, building....totally self reliant.
Two of your fellow survivors called a meeting and said we have a wonderful idea - we will organise you four - tell you what to fish for and how many to get, what to grow, what to build and how to build it and generally keep control of the group. obviously you will have to provide enough of whatever you are doing to look after us because will will be just too busy with our governing roll.
now we all need to vote on this idea and need another two besides us to effect it

will you vote yes, or no??

in practice most vote yes - as evidenced by your last vote in local, state and fed elections - 1/3 to tell the other 2/3 what to do

moral - ask yourself what you really want a govt to do because they multiply worse than rabbits and are equally as useful

 

[2020hindsight]

...... 40 year old joke at least - but maybe those of you with dementia have forgotten it

THE GREAT ROWING RACE

Aussie and Japanese big business decided to engage in a competitive crew race. Both teams practiced hard and long to reach their peak performance. On the big day, both teams felt ready. The Japanese won by a mile.

The Aussie team was discouraged by the loss. Morale sagged. Corporate management decided that the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found so a consulting firm was hired to investigate the problem and recommend corrective action.

The consultant's finding: The Japanese team had 8 people rowing and one person steering. The Aussie team had one person rowing and 8 people steering.

After a year of study, and millions spent on analyzing the problem, the consulting firm concluded that too many people were steering and not enough were rowing on the Aussie team.

As the race day neared again the following year, the Aussie team's management structure was completely reorganized. The new structure: Four steering managers, three area steering managers, and a new performance review system for the person rowing the boat to provide work incentive.

At the race, the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated again, the Aussie corporation laid off the rower for poor performance, and gave the managers a bonus for discovering the problem

 

[chewy]

Environment missing from the 6 point list?


On a side note I was told that if all income was taxed at a flat rate of 10% with no deductions allowed it would equal the current tax haul. No idea if it is true - anyone do the maths? But if so I'd be happy to pay a flat 10% with no deductions.

I was also told that if the 10 richest people in Aus paid 45% on their annual earnings without deductions it would equal the current tax haul. No idea if that is true either though lol

 

[treefrog]

just rang the local health service and newbie on switch (festive season shortages I guess) answers "Good afternoon; Broken Health Service"

 

[treefrog]

Environment missing from the 6 point list?


On a side note I was told that if all income was taxed at a flat rate of 10% with no deductions allowed it would equal the current tax haul. No idea if it is true - anyone do the maths? But if so I'd be happy to pay a flat 10% with no deductions.

I was also told that if the 10 richest people in Aus paid 45% on their annual earnings without deductions it would equal the current tax haul. No idea if that is true either though lol

probably true chewy, but not a snowball's hope of getting up because the masses (low socio-economic types) would start paying tax rather than none at present

and of course u can scrap the income tax and GST altogether and just have a 1.5% tax on all transactions and still get the same income but have a heart for the poor tax office peoples tossed out of work for that one!

 

[ithatheekret]

just rang the local health service and newbie on switch (festive season shortages I guess) answers "Good afternoon; Broken Health Service"

HAHAHAHAHA a this site never fails to make my day , good one .

ROFLMAO

 

[Kimosabi]

Spending should be cut from ALL areas of Government....

The proper role of Government is to protect the rights and privacy of the individual.

Any deviation from the proper role of government will lead us down the slippery slope to Tyranny.

The first thing that should happen is that we take control of our monetary system back from the International Bankers.

The illegal ATO should be dismantled immediately.

It should be the Individuals responsibility to look after themselves not the Governments. Why should money be stolen from one person to support another person? This is what charities are for.

Why should I have to work 4 - 5 months of the year to pay Tax?

Why can't I keep the fruits of my labour?

Why is the Dollar I earnt yesterday, worth less Today?

This sound's like institutionalised Robbery to me, by we are all happy to put up with it.

The Federal Government should be a small as possible and be responsible for Defense and International Relations.

The States and Local Government should be primarily responsible for local matters like Health and Social Security etc.

You people need to wake up and realise that we are all being shafted up the Ass in this country...

 

[Rafa]

probably true chewy, but not a snowball's hope of getting up because the masses (low socio-economic types) would start paying tax rather than none at present

and of course u can scrap the income tax and GST altogether and just have a 1.5% tax on all transactions and still get the same income but have a heart for the poor tax office peoples tossed out of work for that one!

Spot on...

The inefficiencies in our tax system are phenomenal... we have one of hte most complicated tax system in the world, all designed to give people employed in the tax office, all those accountants in jobs AND allow the mega rich to pay the least tax

personally, i'd have no problems paying my tax if i knew most of it was going into productive use, and only a minimum amount in administration... (does anyone know what the real figures are?)

Hence, i still maintain tax cuts are essential, cause anything that reduces the size of govt is a good thing. There is still plenty of savings that can be found elsewhere to fund social needs.

PS: quite like that 1.5% transaction tax... simple and so easy to implement, especially now in the age of the cashless society. The poor can also get it credited back, to make it equitable, but pretty much the more you spend, the more tax you pay.

 

[cashcow]

Re: The Role of Government? Which areas should govt spending be cut from?

Cut funding from defence, with our ****ty armed force we might as well be without one...

Actually, Defence suffered mightily over the past 2 decades and is probably only just getting back to sufficient funding levels in recent times. Despite this, our ADO/ADF is widely recognised as one of the most efficient and innovative for its size.

It strikes me that those who make these sorts of ill-informed comments would be the first to complain should the proverbial ever hit the fan on our shores (again).

 

[cashcow]

Back on topic, I think the vast majority of middle class Australia misuses the insta-wealth they've been handed over the last decade. Whilst I dislike the amount of tax we pay, I can't help but feel perhaps the gov'mint could put it to better use than the masses, by investing in all the usual areas (education, infrastructure, health, etc).

Maybe rather than a blanket income tax reduction, they should make more useful things deductable and that will encourage people to do something worthwhile with their tax savings instead of buying a faster V8, bigger McMansion and brighter plasma than their neighbours'.

*steps off soapbox*