The Rich just get richer

Naked shorts · 15 January 2009

Smurf1976 said:
What annoys me is how it's the poorer suburbs where the majority of the 24 hour pubs with pokies are located.

If these places were not the most effective locations, they wouldnt put them there. Do you really blame the construction planner for providing his boss with the best location for his new business, so he can pay the bills and afford to send his kids to a private school, perhaps provide his kids decent food at night?

Or the advertising man making a living by trying to provide his boss with the most effective advertising strategy so he gets paid enough to pay for his parents heathcare?

At the end of the day, only you can take your money out of your wallet and give it to someone for entertainment.

pilots said:
Have you noticed that the rich work a 12 hour Day, six days of the week as well.

I dont know if this is sarcasm or not.

I know rich people who work this hard, I know poor people who work this hard.

I know rich people who dont work at all, I know poor people who dont work at all.

pilots · 15 January 2009

Naked shorts said:
If these places were not the most effective locations, they wouldnt put them there. Do you really blame the construction planner for providing his boss with the best location for his new business, so he can pay the bills and afford to send his kids to a private school, perhaps provide his kids decent food at night?

Or the advertising man making a living by trying to provide his boss with the most effective advertising strategy so he gets paid enough to pay for his parents heathcare?

At the end of the day, only you can take your money out of your wallet and give it to someone for entertainment.

I dont know if this is sarcasm or not.

I know rich people who work this hard, I know poor people who work this hard.

I know rich people who dont work at all, I know poor people who dont work at all.

No sarcasm intened, fact.

It's Snake Pliskin · 15 January 2009

Julia said:
We all make our choices. If people choose to gamble then they have to accept the consequences.

Let's not have more laws to protect people from themselves.
Too much of a damn nanny state already.

I agree Julia, but we need to educate people proactively about gambling too.

disarray · 15 January 2009

personal responsibility is dead.

go ahead and fk up, someone else will bail you out!

Naked shorts · 15 January 2009

disarray said:
go ahead and fk up, someone else will bail you out!

Julia · 15 January 2009

It's Snake Pliskin said:
I agree Julia, but we need to educate people proactively about gambling too.

There's plenty of education about, Snake. But anyway, how much education does it take to figure out that if you keep shoving money into a poker machine and get less out, you eventually won't be able to pay the rent!
Having worked with people who have been in just this position, they not only don't think but just act on impulse, and then are confident that the system will bail them out. Sometimes I think we need to be less 'supportive' in order to inspire them to change.

disarray said:
personal responsibility is dead.

go ahead and fk up, someone else will bail you out!

Exactly so.
Applies to so many things. Governments and their policies are supposed to be nursemaids.

dalek · 15 January 2009

Julia said:
There's plenty of education about, Snake. But anyway, how much education does it take to figure out that if you keep shoving money into a poker machine and get less out, you eventually won't be able to pay the rent!

Providing what is effectively token education is merely an attempt to legitimise an immoral activity. While I have no issue with exploiting market opportunities and becoming wealthy (I wish) as a result, there is a line between that activity and predatory behavior aimed at the most vulnerable
elements in society.
Sure, we are all accountable for our own actions but there is an unsavory level of manipulation which seems to be becoming acceptable.

derty · 15 January 2009

I think pokies are insidious for two main reasons. They prey on addictive behaviour and they destroy a town's culture and diversity.

I have friends that live in a constant self loathing at their inability to stay away from the pokies. Their lives are a currently a waste, they have no saving, no assets. They are addicted. They either get help and it works for a while but they always end up back there or they just refuse to admit they have a problem. I've heard of several occurrences where one member of a recently retired couple has managed in a few months to lose all of their savings. The cost to society from a purely monetary basis is huge.

The other factor is on the culture of a city or town. For me the difference best shown when comparing Kalgoorlie to Mt Isa. Both mining towns, both with about 30,000 people.

Kalgoorlie has a thriving pub, multicultural restaurant and cafe scene. Kalgoorlie has no pokies. While the pubs can get pretty rough at times it is a lively cosmopolitan town that is very family friendly.

Mt Isa in comparison has the huge Irish Club (plus the Buffalo Club) with pokies galore. The revenue from the pokies subsidises the beer and food placing them at prices that pubs and restaurants cannot compete with. IF people go somewhere they usually go to the Irish Club. As a result the pub and restaurant scene is shallow an anaemic. Mt Isa feels soulless and drab in comparison.

I'm not a fan of the nanny state, though there must be some way that people who cannot help themselves can be assisted or prevented from accessing the machines.

johenmo · 15 January 2009

It seems some of us ignore/overlook/don't think about a few basics about people
- some people have addictive personalities (proven)
- Most of us needs rules/laws, otherwise anarchy would result.
- Some of us will exploit others at any given opportunity.
- Some will ignore morals/ethics if it fitting to do so.
- most people aren't altruistic. Because it will cost them.

Some people need to be saved from themselves, even if they appear to not deserve it. Pure and simple.

mayk · 15 January 2009

derty said:
I think pokies are insidious for two main reasons. They prey on addictive behaviour and they destroy a town's culture and diversity.

I have friends that live in a constant self loathing at their inability to stay away from the pokies. Their lives are a currently a waste, they have no saving, no assets. They are addicted. They either get help and it works for a while but they always end up back there or they just refuse to admit they have a problem. I've heard of several occurrences where one member of a recently retired couple has managed in a few months to lose all of their savings. The cost to society from a purely monetary basis is huge.

The other factor is on the culture of a city or town. For me the difference best shown when comparing Kalgoorlie to Mt Isa. Both mining towns, both with about 30,000 people.

Kalgoorlie has a thriving pub, multicultural restaurant and cafe scene. Kalgoorlie has no pokies. While the pubs can get pretty rough at times it is a lively cosmopolitan town that is very family friendly.

Mt Isa in comparison has the huge Irish Club (plus the Buffalo Club) with pokies galore. The revenue from the pokies subsidises the beer and food placing them at prices that pubs and restaurants cannot compete with. IF people go somewhere they usually go to the Irish Club. As a result the pub and restaurant scene is shallow an anaemic. Mt Isa feels soulless and drab in comparison.

I'm not a fan of the nanny state, though there must be some way that people who cannot help themselves can be assisted or prevented from accessing the machines.

I agree, addiction is the key. In fact all the reasons against drugs can be used against (and are used in many states of US) to ban gambling.

Creating another Las Vegas in Australia, can be one option. People go there, enjoy for a while and then get on with their lives. Not a perfect solution, but far better than here.

Knobby22 · 15 January 2009

mayk said:
I agree, addiction is the key. In fact all the reasons against drugs can be used against (and are used in many states of US) to ban gambling.

Creating another Las Vegas in Australia, can be one option. People go there, enjoy for a while and then get on with their lives. Not a perfect solution, but far better than here.

I agree also.
Pokies are far more aggressive and insidious than other forms of gambling.
Horse racing for instance is more socila and there is a wait between races.
Tattslotto require a draw so you have time between each gamble. Pokies are almost hypnotising. They should be banned.

Julia · 15 January 2009

derty said:
I'm not a fan of the nanny state, though there must be some way that people who cannot help themselves can be assisted or prevented from accessing the machines.

There are various measures in place already. But the gambling addicts have to take responsibility for 'signing up'.

It's not just poker machines (and I'd be the last to defend these or any other means of separating people from their money). There has been a bit on ABC Radio recently about internet gambling where participants use their credit card. That sounds pretty fraught with danger.

Flip · 15 January 2009

johenmo said:
It seems some of us ignore/overlook/don't think about a few basics about people
- some people have addictive personalities (proven)
- Most of us needs rules/laws, otherwise anarchy would result.
- Some of us will exploit others at any given opportunity.
- Some will ignore morals/ethics if it fitting to do so.
- most people aren't altruistic. Because it will cost them.

Some people need to be saved from themselves, even if they appear to not deserve it. Pure and simple.

and these are the people who get into power...

Knobby22 · 15 January 2009

Julia said:
There are various measures in place already. But the gambling addicts have to take responsibility for 'signing up'.

It's not just poker machines (and I'd be the last to defend these or any other means of separating people from their money). There has been a bit on ABC Radio recently about internet gambling where participants use their credit card. That sounds pretty fraught with danger.

That's true.
Internet gambling has the disadvantage that a person can have a major gambling problem and no one will find out till they have lost their house.

Julia · 15 January 2009

johenmo said:
It seems some of us ignore/overlook/don't think about a few basics about people
- some people have addictive personalities (proven)

Disagree. This is a popular myth, not accepted by medical and psychological professionals. If you maintain existence of a scientifically proven "addictive personality' could you please provide link to these studies.

- Most of us needs rules/laws, otherwise anarchy would result.

No one is suggesting we abolish laws!

- Some of us will exploit others at any given opportunity.

True.

- Some will ignore morals/ethics if it fitting to do so.

Do you mean 'if it suits them to do so'? If so, yes, agree.

- most people aren't altruistic. Because it will cost them.

Disagree. I don't know, because I doubt there has ever been an attempt to measure this, but I believe most people will look out for their fellow human beings. It doesn't necessarily have to 'cost them' and altruism can in fact bring as much benefit to the altruist as to the receiver, at least in psychological terms.

Buddy · 15 January 2009

derty said:
I think pokies are insidious for two main reasons. They prey on addictive behaviour and they destroy a town's culture and diversity.

I have friends that live in a constant self loathing at their inability to stay away from the pokies. Their lives are a currently a waste, they have no saving, no assets. They are addicted. They either get help and it works for a while but they always end up back there or they just refuse to admit they have a problem. I've heard of several occurrences where one member of a recently retired couple has managed in a few months to lose all of their savings. The cost to society from a purely monetary basis is huge.

The other factor is on the culture of a city or town. For me the difference best shown when comparing Kalgoorlie to Mt Isa. Both mining towns, both with about 30,000 people.

Kalgoorlie has a thriving pub, multicultural restaurant and cafe scene. Kalgoorlie has no pokies. While the pubs can get pretty rough at times it is a lively cosmopolitan town that is very family friendly.

Mt Isa in comparison has the huge Irish Club (plus the Buffalo Club) with pokies galore. The revenue from the pokies subsidises the beer and food placing them at prices that pubs and restaurants cannot compete with. IF people go somewhere they usually go to the Irish Club. As a result the pub and restaurant scene is shallow an anaemic. Mt Isa feels soulless and drab in comparison.

I'm not a fan of the nanny state, though there must be some way that people who cannot help themselves can be assisted or prevented from accessing the machines.

I agree derty. By the way, hate your avatar. Hope it's not a self portrait. I come from the West, and apart from the damned Casino there are no pokies. At least the government(s) have resisted the pokie honey pot over here. I dont call it government being a "nanny state", simply resisting those vile machines whose only purpose is to siphon money into the pockets of filthy greedy men who prey on the weakness of others (generally people who can ill afford to gamble). Good on them (all sides or government) and may it remain that way.

derty · 15 January 2009

No it's not a self portrait, it's Mr Sanchez

I live in Kalgoorlie at the moment, there has been moves to build a casino in town for a while with limited success to date. It is the last thing the town needs. I agree WA has the best poker machine model I've seen so far.

I have nothing against pokies as a concept. I'll have a bash on one sometimes if i'm in an establishment that has them. I'll play a 1 cent machine and play a few lines at a time, $20 will last me an hour sometimes. I find playing them by myself dull. Though if I catch up with a mate who plays them all the time they will go through $20 in five minutes or quicker sometimes! When you used to have to feed your coins in at least it took some time to get your money in, now they just suck in your $50 in a jiffy or you swipe your card. They have made handing over your hard earned $$$ so much more efficient.

If pokies were limited to being situated in casino's then it would mean that the people who wanted to play them would have to actively seek out the appropriate establishment. The problem is that in many states they are everywhere. In places like Canberra where most places are either clubs or taverns it is hard to go somewhere that doesn't have them. It is sad to watch the drones sit in front of them and have the money sucked out of them for hours at a time.

numbercruncher · 15 January 2009

We have more Pokies in Australia per capita than vegas or any gambling city that im aware of ..... Our machines are also amoung the most intense (and addictive) in the world .....

I say ban them from the suburbs.

johenmo · 15 January 2009

Julia said:
If you maintain existence of a scientifically proven "addictive personality' could you please provide link to these studies.

I don't. But still remain unconvinced despite hearing both sides of the discussions from others over the years. My time spent on the board of a counselling centre exposed me to information that I would never have thought about.

Julia said:
Do you mean 'if it suits them to do so'? If so, yes, agree.

I do.

Julia said:
Disagree. I don't know, because I doubt there has ever been an attempt to measure this, but I believe most people will look out for their fellow human beings. It doesn't necessarily have to 'cost them' and altruism can in fact bring as much benefit to the altruist as to the receiver, at least in psychological terms.

We may have to agree to disagree on this. Deep down, people will do things and "feel good" about it. One of the "best" markers, IMO, is volunteers. The number of hours spent as volunteers is dropping (recorded fact) and the number of volunteers is dropping at a greater rate (fact), which means that those who are left are putting in more hours. My wife was involved in an organisation and the # of volunteers dropped from 200 to 22 in 8 years, and demand for the services went up.

Add to this the experiments about people not assisting other in "trouble" (and the real life situations) - the more people that observe the event, the less likely someone is to assist. And I'm sure you will find the intervention factor is dropping, due to fear of personal injury etc.

Our family members have been involved with all sorts of programs over the years - with counselling centres, homeless outreach, youth organisations. You see the same faces again and again, especially in smaller cities. A lot of people would rather give a donation than their time. And, the richer they appear, the less they give (overall comment - there are exceptions). But perhaps the appearances are fulled by debt?

But I remain optimistic about people because there are caring people out there.

Cheers

Smurf1976 · 15 January 2009

Slightly off topic, but if you want to see how rediculously addicted society is to these things then think back to what happened during an electricity shortage in Victoria some years ago.

Air-conditioners banned and everything from musical instruments and video recorders to the home handyman's power drill also banned. Meanwhile the pokies sat there gobbling up power, and they use more than you might expect, because they were deemed more important on the basis that they earn money.

It's a sad society that stops someone drilling a few holes or playing an electric guitar in order to keep the gambling going. Sad, very sad.

The Rich just get richer

Naked shorts

pilots

It's Snake Pliskin

disarray

Naked shorts

Julia

In Memoriam

dalek

derty

johenmo

mayk

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

Julia

In Memoriam

Flip

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

Julia

In Memoriam

Buddy

derty

numbercruncher

Beware of Dropbears

johenmo

Smurf1976

Similar threads

The Rich just get richer

In Memoriam

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

In Memoriam

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

In Memoriam

Beware of Dropbears

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency