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The recession has started?

Beej: The ANZ number of job ads have generally seen as a more reliable forward indicator. The regular unemployment figures have trailed this over the last couple of decades.

With a -4.9% reduction in the last month in job ads, employment in a few months may not look so healthy.

Will have to see of course, nothing is ever certain.

dhukka has posted such data on his website with a nice comparison of the measured rate and the ANZ ad index (http://www.fundamentalanalyst.blogspot.com/
 


No doubt the employment report was a little better than expected but nothing to get overly excited about. Consider that the Australian economy needs between 15 -20k job growth per month just to keep the unemployment rate steady. So why did the unemployment rate fall? Simple, the participation rate or the number of people looking for work, fell.

The abs has been making changes to their survey data, basically reducing the size of their survey which has the effect of increasing the error rate. So there will definitely be revsions but they could just as likely be to the upside as the downside.

Also remember that the employment numbers are a lagging indicator. By the time the employment numbers confirm a weak economy the slowdown is well underway. If we are going into recession you wouldn't expect to see back to back declines in employment until 2009.
 

Beat me to it.

Job Ads Signal Warning for Labour Market
 

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Yes yes all true - BUT this thread was full of headline articles about job losses announced during August - yet the August net employment numbers are quite good. Perhaps all those losses haven't yet hit the figures? Who knows, but all I know as that in my experience the longer doomsayers "predict" a downturn without it eventuating, the less chance that it is actually going to happen, or be as bad as predicted. The real bad ones take almost everyone by complete surprise....

Cheers,

Beej
 

Whoa nice web site!

Ive been following threads like this and the severe correction thread and I notice there are are some real guns posting Im just too new to put the names to all the good posts I read!

I did notice Dhukka posted the lehman results here before they could be found through google news .. I eventually found it myself on the lehman website.
 


Once again Beej, where were all these predictions of massive job losses in August? Quote me one. You and I both agreed a few pages prior that job losses announced don't mean they are laid off straight away. Posts here suggested job losses are on the way. And they most certainy are, all the evidence points to it and today's report doesn't detract from the case. Whether that eventuates into recession like job losses is another matter.
 
The Sydney Morning Herald - Weekend edition Sep 27 - 28 2008 Pg 28

"Since 1788, Australia has experienced 26 recessions and four depressions. In total, they account for 22 of Australia's 220-year history of European settlement. The good times overhwhelm the bad. Only four in a hundred Australian's experienced the antion's last depression from 1929 to1933, and they would have been very young then.

....The depressions occurred in 1788-89 (Captain Arthur Phillip's colony), 1840 - 1846, the 1890's and 1929 - 33..."
 
John Howard won the last election he could have done a lot more with the money and time in power instead of spending $380M running a GST unchain ny heart, buying vote add's. etc
He is now out of power and doesn't have to answer to any one and gets all the perks.
I wonder where we would be now if Withlam have of got his Kemlani money to buy back the farm?
We might not get much of a recession it could go straight to a depression.
I have sold my house and could buy back in again in 2015 when they have bottomed.
29/08 Brisbane paper had add's to Bently's, Ferarri, Lambo's etc for sale the first time I have seen 30 add's on the one page. A UK car lot use to have 10 Porches now has 80.
MY shop lease is due for renewal 01/09 and I won't be signing even if income doubled.
I am going to sit here and hope youse all (Fench speak ) shine a light for me.
 
Posts here suggested job losses are on the way. And they most certainy are, all the evidence points to it and today's report doesn't detract from the case.
Cadbury is about to get rid of another 17 employees in Hobart.

Also there are very strong rumors, not being denied by the company, that Incat may axe up to 200 non-permanent staff.

Meanwhile timber giant Gunns is attempting to sell off quite a bit of its' timber resources in order to reduce debt. That sounds a tad ominous.

The only good news is the rain which is helping improve the Hydro's situation and is presumably helping farmers as well. Both have been hit hard by the 11 year drought and whilst there's been nowhere near enough rain to say it's over, at least it is actually raining.
 
Looks like there will be cuts for Suncorp quite soon.

I'm not sure how things will play out for QLD. We have a lot less large businesses headquartered here than in Sydney and Melbourne. There is the money that comes from coal, and agriculture, but hard to say whether that will drop off or not. Lots of both public and private construction going on in Brisbane.

Any thoughts?


http://business.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/clouds-gathering-over-suncorp-20081001-4s2f.html

Clouds gathering over Suncorp

MichaelWest | October 2, 2008

The job losses have begun at Suncorp. In an email from its chief executive, John Mulcahy, to staff yesterday - obtained by BusinessDay - he said there would be "changes to the level of work across our organisation".

The memo put no number on the redundancy program. Sources close to management said last month the plan was to sack or redeploy 1500 people.

A spokesman for Suncorp said earlier this week that Suncorp did not have a particular figure in mind for redundancies. There was no budgeted number, he said...
 
All new large jobs have now stopped coming in the past 3 weeks. Might get one final push of construction with the fhog in the coming months before it gets really quiet.
 
My engineer mate who alerted me to AED's failings well before they were known, who does a lot of project work for Woodside, says that Woodside have been getting rid of contractors left, right and centre. North Rankin B is all but completely off.

And the project he is working in now, is likely to be the last design work Woodside is likely to put out for quite some time. And everything they have already done now is going to be shelved until a later date. And that means everything...

Apparently this is sector wide with the oil and gas industry as well.

West Perth is going to be a very vacant place once again if these engineering groups stop getting work...
 
I have the same info, Minning industry will have to lay off thousands. If it costs 2.65 a pound to get copper out to exchange and the market price in 1.70 per pound it is only a short amount of time to see some mines close until prices recover.The finance industry after this savings G'tee crisis will be alot lighter. If your a fund Manager or admin staff for one these frozen Funds I reccommend seek.com.au. They seem to have nowhere to go.

Once the public see that Australia hands out 9.4 miilion a week in hand outs to the car industry that delivers 5% of purchases to australian consumers. One also would think that industry will also be shut down. This has gained momentum this week due to GM and CHRYSLER 10billion merger request.

So Jobs are not looking good for the next 2 years.

Looks like "R" to me?
 
.. estimated 10,000 jobs to go from the banks by September next year That's 6.5% of workforce.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...s-to-cut-10000-jobs-in-fis-KX2TK?OpenDocument

 

According to experts at the URBA (Un-Reserve Bank of Australia) -

- They are very happy with the way the finance sector has responded to URBA market manipulations.

- They insist there will be no recession in Australia.

I love the men in black at the URBA.
I feel totally secure when they speak such comfortings.
I do so love it now they are manipulating the markets on a dailly basis. It feels like a jolly good massage.. ooo-er.
I love that the URBA never worry us with confusing, nasty "monetary" figures. You know, how much they are throwing into the Big Bonfire every day. They just wave the ol' magick wands and all our problems go *poof*.


 
From DR.
U.S. government debt grew by $800 billion between September 1st and yesterday? Seriously. Nearly half that is since the first of October alone.

When people talk of economic crises they inevitably refer to the Wall Street crash of 1929 and its aftermath in the Great Depression. That is the classic crash, just as the 1720 London collapse of the South Sea Bubble was the classic crash of the eighteenth century. Incidentally, for those who would like to align the business cycle with the cycle of sun spots, 1720 to 1929 is 209 years. If the solar cycle is taken as 10.45 years, then the gap from the South Sea Bubble to the Wall Street crash is precisely 20 solar cycles. The 1929 crash seems to confirm the calculations made by the Victorian economist William Stanley Jevons in the late 1870s. His observations could have been used to forecast the Wall Street crash fifty years before it happened.

I am rather sceptical of these precise cycles, but the similarity of different crises, the big and the little, is undoubted. They give us the best indicator of what to expect next. Banking crises are followed by recessions. That is the history of the past and it is only too likely to repeat itself now.

William Rees-Mogg
 
Here is Charlie Aitkin's feedback from a few on what is happening in our economy. As it is not really advice, but just feedback from the public, I posted it up here......

 
Quiet for about 2-3 weeks before work started to come back in again. Shops are packed full (not sure if people are spending as much though). I was looking at buying another work ute a Nissan navara or Toyota hilux second hand called up three different car yard listings in the paper and all had sold that day. I know actual state and national figures are far from rosy and a lot are doing it tough. But I think the majority of people my way seem to not be caring to much about financial doom and its life as normal with money being a bit tight. In day to day life this whole crisis has not been as bad as it could have.

Whether Australia is just enjoying an extended lag period before it all catches up with us remains to be seen. I was banking on a nasty downturn but would be happy if we avoid it. Next year may well be the deal breaker though. This whole process seems to be very slow moving. Perhaps it was because I was waiting from the housing price peak in anticipation of bargains down the track. One hell of a wait.
 
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