Not less work unless you want to scan thousands of stocks..... I spend a few hours for the European open a then few more for US and I don't have customers and bosses busting my ass....Even starting with a $200k trading account and assuming gun trader returns 30% per annum returns every year with no disruption, drawdown, volatility, etc ....you are talking $60k a year, pre-tax...might as well get a job at Woolworths, you will be doing a lot less work to get the same money.
Not less work unless you want to scan thousands of stocks..... I spend a few hours for the European open a then few more for US and I don't have customers and bosses busting my ass....
Then again why not have the best of both worlds and do both?
So you consistently earn massive, top of the board returns, year after year, with no disruption/drawdown/volatility and you achieve this with just a few hours of work a day?
No. You don't
I live off dividends, (and interest and rental income), I believe the best way to build that “mega capital” as you call it is to steadily accumulate capital in buy and hold investments and compound your income back into it. Due to the fact that trading increases your costs it’s going to have a net drag on the over all returns of those who attempt it, it’s a classic case of rabbit vs the hare, Traders think they will get where they want to go faster, but often don’t, I have seen it play out here all the time with some of the biggest trading advocates.to live off dividends alone you need megacapital, dividends can also be cut or stopped at board whim
My strategy is simply to buy quality and hold through the market cycles, if the market drops I buy more, if the market rises, I buy more.
On average both traders and buy and holders get the same return, but traders share a larger portion of that return with their brokers.
Yes some traders (just like some investors) will do better than average, but only because so other trader did worse than average.
———————
We could see a big drop like the covid drop, but I believe it will snap back just as fast, and it might also not eventuate at all.
Basically the 100’s of companies listed on stock exchanges will earn what ever profit they earn, have growth of whatever growth they have, and pay what ever dividends they pay and buy and hold types will collect all that benefit.
Traders on average will collect the exact same growth and dividends as the long term investors on average, but will have to pay more fees and taxes along the way, meaning on average their return is lower.
not always , if you get into a share early enough , your div. yield off an individual share can be well above 10% return ( often juicy enough for you to bank some cash for the lean years ) having shares in companies in a variety of sectors can help as well ( not every company struggles in synchronicity with the market .. but it might be different this time )to live off dividends alone you need megacapital, dividends can also be cut or stopped at board whim
| Balance Date | Dividend Type | Cents per share | Ccy | Franked % | Ex-Dividend Date | Books Close Date | Pay Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 30/06/2022 | Interim | 22.000 | AUD | 100.00 | 02/09/2022 | 05/09/2022 | 23/09/2022 |
| 31/12/2021 | Final | 42.500 | AUD | 100.00 | 31/03/2022 | 01/04/2022 | 20/04/2022 |
| 30/06/2021 | Interim | 20.000 | AUD | 100.00 | 23/09/2021 | 24/09/2021 | 15/10/2021 |
| 30/06/2021 | Special | 8.400 | AUD | 100.00 | 23/09/2021 | 24/09/2021 | 15/10/2021 |
| 31/12/2020 | Final | 25.000 | AUD | 100.00 | 31/03/2021 | 01/04/2021 | 20/04/2021 |
| 31/12/2019 | Final | 11.250 | AUD | 100.00 | 31/03/2020 | 01/04/2020 | 20/04/2020 |
| 30/06/2019 | Interim | 14.000 | AUD | 100.00 | 25/09/2019 | 26/09/2019 | 17/10/2019 |
| 31/12/2018 | Final | 22.500 | AUD | 100.00 | 28/03/2019 | 29/03/2019 | 18/04/2019 |
| 30/06/2018 | Interim | 14.000 | AUD | 100.00 | 13/09/2018 | 14/09/2018 | 05/10/2018 |
| 31/12/2017 | Final | 22.500 | AUD | 100.00 | 28/03/2018 | 29/03/2018 | 18/04/2018 |
| 30/06/2017 | Interim | 13.500 | AUD | 100.00 | 14/09/2017 | 15/09/2017 | 06/10/2017 |
As a practical observation, if there's a thread specifically about the market falling, and it's on a forum which is specifically about the stock market, then I think it's fair to assume most involved will have at least some interest in active trading.
That's not to say there's anything inherently wrong with the idea of long term investing and so on. Just that it's not the only approach and not the one to which short or medium term market direction is most relevant.
It's a bit like saying there's nothing wrong with classical music. Indeed there isn't but it's not really the place you'll find an audience wearing black T-shirts, headbanging, raising their horns and preferring to stand rather than sit. Even less likely you'll see women's underwear thrown at the band.
There's a place for everything and in the context of short to medium term market direction, those interested will be those actively trading.
Personally for my actively traded account it's about 30% in stocks / 70% cash at the moment. Sold very heavily last week - that wasn't an effort to predict the Fed announcement, it was simply that the wheels started coming off the market and hitting my stops. Selling started on the 15th - the market was starting to falter well before the announcement.
Or even for those simply buying into a managed or index fund.market dips have there place even for long term investors , they give you the opportunity to bulk up on selected stocks
well i am not planning any draw-downs , however over the last two years there have been all-cash takeovers that provided cash injections , and hopefully i can maintain a cash buffer to take the bite out div. disruptions ( and i live a fairly frugal lifestyle , so am partly cushioned from inflation )So you consistently earn massive, top of the board returns, year after year, with no disruption/drawdown/volatility and you achieve this with just a few hours of work a day?
No. You don't.
If we're at the point where it's not possible to buy shares due to cash accounts being frozen then realistically it's game over for life as we know it.but how long after the crash will your funds be available ??
well we could look at Greece and Cyprus as examples of what MIGHT happen and say minimal amounts of withdrawals ( say below $1000 a day ) for say 4 or 6 weeks , now sure there might be some nice deals four weeks after the crash , but what about those who get margin calls or have option dealsIf we're at the point where it's not possible to buy shares due to cash accounts being frozen then realistically it's game over for life as we know it.
well we have been in 'uncharted territory ' for quite a while , almost anything irrational could happen , IN THEORY Australia could become self-sufficient ( again ) but would we even tryLike @Smurf1976 , I have some cash on the sidelines. But over time cash decays away due to inflation of goods and services as well as appreciating asset prices !
We are feeling it now in the current inflationary environment, so I could only imagine how cash may become trash in a hyper-inflation scenario, as @divs4ever said
not always , if you get into a share early enough , your div. yield off an individual share can be well above 10% return ( often juicy enough for you to bank some cash for the lean years ) having shares in companies in a variety of sectors can help as well ( not every company struggles in synchronicity with the market .. but it might be different this time )
take for example my holding in APE ( notional SP average of $1.18 ) sure it skips the odd div but the years it does pay
Balance Date Dividend Type Cents per share Ccy Franked % Ex-Dividend Date Books Close Date Pay Date 30/06/2022 Interim 22.000 AUD 100.00 02/09/2022 05/09/2022 23/09/2022 31/12/2021 Final 42.500 AUD 100.00 31/03/2022 01/04/2022 20/04/2022 30/06/2021 Interim 20.000 AUD 100.00 23/09/2021 24/09/2021 15/10/2021 30/06/2021 Special 8.400 AUD 100.00 23/09/2021 24/09/2021 15/10/2021 31/12/2020 Final 25.000 AUD 100.00 31/03/2021 01/04/2021 20/04/2021 31/12/2019 Final 11.250 AUD 100.00 31/03/2020 01/04/2020 20/04/2020 30/06/2019 Interim 14.000 AUD 100.00 25/09/2019 26/09/2019 17/10/2019 31/12/2018 Final 22.500 AUD 100.00 28/03/2019 29/03/2019 18/04/2019 30/06/2018 Interim 14.000 AUD 100.00 13/09/2018 14/09/2018 05/10/2018 31/12/2017 Final 22.500 AUD 100.00 28/03/2018 29/03/2018 18/04/2018 30/06/2017 Interim 13.500 AUD 100.00 14/09/2017 15/09/2017 06/10/2017
if a stock moves up, and at a later stage I find myself with some more capital, as long as the new higher price still represents good value I will buy.i don't buy higher , unless the company makes a compelling move to do so , however i have been known to take some cash off the table if a stock rises to irrational valuations
As I said there is nothing wrong with attempting to beat the market average return by trading, but I do think discussing the pros and cons is important.As a practical observation, if there's a thread specifically about the market falling, and it's on a forum which is specifically about the stock market, then I think it's fair to assume most involved will have at least some interest in active trading.
That's not to say there's anything inherently wrong with the idea of long term investing and so on. Just that it's not the only approach and not the one to which short or medium term market direction is most relevant.
It's a bit like saying there's nothing wrong with classical music. Indeed there isn't but it's not really the place you'll find an audience wearing black T-shirts, headbanging, raising their horns and preferring to stand rather than sit. Even less likely you'll see women's underwear thrown at the band.
There's a place for everything and in the context of short to medium term market direction, those interested will be those actively trading.
Personally for my actively traded account it's about 30% in stocks / 70% cash at the moment. Sold very heavily last week - that wasn't an effort to predict the Fed announcement, it was simply that the wheels started coming off the market and hitting my stops. Selling started on the 15th - the market was starting to falter well before the announcement.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?