The official "ASX is tanking!" panic thread

[eskys]

Buy yourself a Barista coffee maker, graph. Will save you money in the long run. Breville sells for under $700 recently. Ask for a knocker to be included (we call it the knocker cos you tap the coffee grounds on it to knock it out into the little container once you've made your coffee) And don't forget to clean the steamer if you use it for hot milk and descale the machine, according to instructions. If you don't, it will pack up sooner than you would like. (the coffee grounds are excellent for your garden, spread them around esp for acid loving plants)

Our market is slipping away...........

 

[eskys]

Hi everyone, I'm curious if inverse ETFs is played well during these recessions? I was having a discussion with someone earlier today and the person was telling me that bboz/bbus etc will go downplay during these recessions... he was referring to this "https://www.investopedia.com/articles/exchangetradedfunds/07/leveraged-etf.asp", I just don't understand well enough, Anyone care to explain further on this persons arguement?

I was hoping someone will come in to help you out, but looks like everyone has gone home. Maybe you can find more information if you go to the BBOZ thread, good luck

 

[divs4ever]

Hi everyone, I'm curious if inverse ETFs is played well during these recessions? I was having a discussion with someone earlier today and the person was telling me that bboz/bbus etc will go downplay during these recessions... he was referring to this "https://www.investopedia.com/articles/exchangetradedfunds/07/leveraged-etf.asp", I just don't understand well enough, Anyone care to explain further on this persons arguement?

the fact you don't understand them well enough should be all the signal you need

but i have dabbled in BEAR , BBOZ and BBUS with success well until the last parcel of BBUS bought in late March 2020

now the trick in buying these is to buy near the TOP of the market ( rather than now , hoping the slide will continue )

now BBUS and BBOZ are a derivative play meaning you hold NO real shares or bonds

BBUS​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	S&P500 Emini Fut Jun22 Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%​

​

BBOZ​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%

so you have no tangible assets

compare that to 'unleveraged

BEAR​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
3
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
0.00%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
AAA	BetaShares Aus High Interest Cash ETF	59.67%
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

which is at least 60% in a 'cash ' ETF ( short term money-market )

with the leverged inverse ETF you need both timing , buying at the right time ( unlike me in March 2020 ) and speed ( NOT holding them for two bloody years hoping for a break even )

because of the structure of these inverse ( leveraged ) ETFs your $value erodes over time ( as well as being eaten by inflation ) as the ETF needs to buy/sell new futures contracts regularly

now i have held BEAR , BBOZ and BBBUS in the past , and now the ASX 200 has already lost more than 1,000 points from the peak is DOWN a good bet

i can give dozens of good reasons it is but can also give dozens of excuses why we haven't had a real crash since 2011 ( and more arguably 2008 ) , this market is NOT playing by the standard rule book

now if you really must gamble have a look at GEAR ( i have never held GEAR ) where you have lower fees , a genuine portfolio and WAIT until you think the market has bottomed ( either this correction or the crash which still hasn't arrived )

these inverse thingies are a trap for the slow-acting ( you might notice BBUS went so low that in August 2021 it was forced to consolidate , because it was looking like staying under $1 a unit )

 

[Dona Ferentes]

bought a large coffee for $7.50 at a super service station recently. the lady said they had 30% price increase from about 2 months ago.
the next 30% jump, or 130% of 7.50% ... could be the end soon

$2 at Shell/ Coles express for regular/ $3 for large.. (Crap but hey!!)

 

[qldfrog]

the fact you don't understand them well enough should be all the signal you need

but i have dabbled in BEAR , BBOZ and BBUS with success well until the last parcel of BBUS bought in late March 2020

now the trick in buying these is to buy near the TOP of the market ( rather than now , hoping the slide will continue )

now BBUS and BBOZ are a derivative play meaning you hold NO real shares or bonds

BBUS​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	S&P500 Emini Fut Jun22 Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%​

​

BBOZ​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%

so you have no tangible assets

compare that to 'unleveraged

BEAR​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
3
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
0.00%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
AAA	BetaShares Aus High Interest Cash ETF	59.67%
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

which is at least 60% in a 'cash ' ETF ( short term money-market )

with the leverged inverse ETF you need both timing , buying at the right time ( unlike me in March 2020 ) and speed ( NOT holding them for two bloody years hoping for a break even )

because of the structure of these inverse ( leveraged ) ETFs your $value erodes over time ( as well as being eaten by inflation ) as the ETF needs to buy/sell new futures contracts regularly

now i have held BEAR , BBOZ and BBBUS in the past , and now the ASX 200 has already lost more than 1,000 points from the peak is DOWN a good bet

i can give dozens of good reasons it is but can also give dozens of excuses why we haven't had a real crash since 2011 ( and more arguably 2008 ) , this market is NOT playing by the standard rule book

now if you really must gamble have a look at GEAR ( i have never held GEAR ) where you have lower fees , a genuine portfolio and WAIT until you think the market has bottomed ( either this correction or the crash which still hasn't arrived )

these inverse thingies are a trap for the slow-acting ( you might notice BBUS went so low that in August 2021 it was forced to consolidate , because it was looking like staying under $1 a unit )

I use these on a daily basis.i learnt by keeping them for too long and losing a bucket.
Also open price on these does not reflect the overall market indexes i have found but the sentiment so be aware of open price

 

[Haxorus]

the fact you don't understand them well enough should be all the signal you need

but i have dabbled in BEAR , BBOZ and BBUS with success well until the last parcel of BBUS bought in late March 2020

now the trick in buying these is to buy near the TOP of the market ( rather than now , hoping the slide will continue )

now BBUS and BBOZ are a derivative play meaning you hold NO real shares or bonds

BBUS​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	S&P500 Emini Fut Jun22 Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%​

​

BBOZ​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%

so you have no tangible assets

compare that to 'unleveraged

BEAR​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
3
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
0.00%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
AAA	BetaShares Aus High Interest Cash ETF	59.67%
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

which is at least 60% in a 'cash ' ETF ( short term money-market )

with the leverged inverse ETF you need both timing , buying at the right time ( unlike me in March 2020 ) and speed ( NOT holding them for two bloody years hoping for a break even )

because of the structure of these inverse ( leveraged ) ETFs your $value erodes over time ( as well as being eaten by inflation ) as the ETF needs to buy/sell new futures contracts regularly

now i have held BEAR , BBOZ and BBBUS in the past , and now the ASX 200 has already lost more than 1,000 points from the peak is DOWN a good bet

i can give dozens of good reasons it is but can also give dozens of excuses why we haven't had a real crash since 2011 ( and more arguably 2008 ) , this market is NOT playing by the standard rule book

now if you really must gamble have a look at GEAR ( i have never held GEAR ) where you have lower fees , a genuine portfolio and WAIT until you think the market has bottomed ( either this correction or the crash which still hasn't arrived )

these inverse thingies are a trap for the slow-acting ( you might notice BBUS went so low that in August 2021 it was forced to consolidate , because it was looking like staying under $1 a unit )

Wow, alright thanks for the reply. Now it's more understandable of why people don't keep these as "long-term" investments. Now I understand the value of the money erodes when it comes to these inverse ETFs now. I'm looking at these inverse ETFs because I'm curious and wanting to make a play soon as we're getting rate hikes in 2 quarters of this year instead of broadening it out throughout the year and vix is kinda popping off its resistance like crazy..

This what I was thinking before reading your post, "Wouldn't it be better to hold inverse etfs during "recessions, so like an inflection point between inverse and normal etfs" but you've answered my question just then..

 

[Telamelo]

$2 at Shell/ Coles express for regular/ $3 for large.. (Crap but hey!!)

Prefer McCafe at Macca's using their rewards app as claim every 4th large capuccino for free (coffee is reasonably priced too)

 

[divs4ever]

Wow, alright thanks for the reply. Now it's more understandable of why people don't keep these as "long-term" investments. Now I understand the value of the money erodes when it comes to these inverse ETFs now. I'm looking at these inverse ETFs because I'm curious and wanting to make a play soon as we're getting rate hikes in 2 quarters of this year instead of broadening it out throughout the year and vix is kinda popping off its resistance like crazy..

This what I was thinking before reading your post, "Wouldn't it be better to hold inverse etfs during "recessions, so like an inflection point between inverse and normal etfs" but you've answered my question just then..

from my ( limited ) experience it is better buying them when the markets are uncomfortably high , and off-loading in a sudden drop ( like so far this week )

now two buddies play with these but they are veteran investors/traders ( both were at it before the dotcom bust ) and are still holding ( whereas i would have probably sold today or tomorrow if i was currently in profit 500 points down is plenty for me )

when i was playing with these inverse ETFs ( mostly before September 2019 ) i was using them as a liquidity buffer as insurance my normal bank wouldn't limit withdrawals

the scenario considered , was the markets/economy crashes and the savings banks limit withdrawals , but holding BBUS/BBOZ could be sold in the downtrend putting funds into the platform trading account , so i could cherry-pick some bargains , until the banks went back to normal business

but the trap is how long do you accumulate these ETFs before you start off-loading some in the dips

now recessions don't last very long , on average , but depressions DO , so THIS TIME what are we looking at a once in 100 year depression ( or worse ) or just another recession ala the GFC

now IF you believe the RBA they are hinting a rate hike every month up to Xmas , while the US Fed doesn't meet every month so more likely bigger hikes less often

 

[sptrawler]

Buy yourself a Barista coffee maker, graph. Will save you money in the long run. Breville sells for under $700 recently. Ask for a knocker to be included (we call it the knocker cos you tap the coffee grounds on it to knock it out into the little container once you've made your coffee) And don't forget to clean the steamer if you use it for hot milk and descale the machine, according to instructions. If you don't, it will pack up sooner than you would like. (the coffee grounds are excellent for your garden, spread them around esp for acid loving plants)

Our market is slipping away...........

I had a $900 brass boiler italian job, it was stolen when we were burgled, bought a capsule job rom Woolies, used it a about 10 times you can have it for free.

 

[Telamelo]

US market's down over -3%! so another "wipe out day" tomorrow on our ASX200 - Gotta love June lol

"Cash is king" in such times of distress along with Gold!

 

[Tropico]

Gold is holding up quite well, up to $US1849 as I type.
The AUD is also holding on at just above $US0.70.
So it is not all out panic stations just yet, when the dash to cash ($US) would normally see both fall. But I guess times are not normal, or at least, not the same as the past.
The question is: "Is it too early to enter gold?"
Edit: punctuation.

 

[eskys]

I had a $900 brass boiler italian job, it was stolen when we were burgled, bought a capsule job rom Woolies, used it a about 10 times you can have it for free.

That's generous of you, thank you, sptrawler At the rate we're going, we'll soon by wearing wigs, let alone the smell of coffee

 

[eskys]

I use these on a daily basis.i learnt by keeping them for too long and losing a bucket.
Also open price on these does not reflect the overall market indexes i have found but the sentiment so be aware of open price

So far, I find it indicates the sentiment of our market, but not a reflection of all sectors. I think that's what you are saying too.

 

[qldfrog]

So far, I find it indicates the sentiment of our market, but not a reflection of all sectors. I think that's what you are saying too.

It should be a direct link asx200...price of bboz but with the way it is build, it is more a market sentiment so not stricly directly link, wider variation especially at open

 

[grah33]

the fact you don't understand them well enough should be all the signal you need

but i have dabbled in BEAR , BBOZ and BBUS with success well until the last parcel of BBUS bought in late March 2020

now the trick in buying these is to buy near the TOP of the market ( rather than now , hoping the slide will continue )

now BBUS and BBOZ are a derivative play meaning you hold NO real shares or bonds

BBUS​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	S&P500 Emini Fut Jun22 Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%​

​

BBOZ​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
2
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
--
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

Management Cost1.19%

so you have no tangible assets

compare that to 'unleveraged

BEAR​

​

Top 10 Holdings​

As of 31 May 2022, 10:00 am AEST
Total Holdings
3
Category Average
--

Distinct Portfolio
Yes
Portfolio Turnover
0.00%
Top 10 Holdings

CODE	COMPANY	ASSET
AAA	BetaShares Aus High Interest Cash ETF	59.67%
--	Spi 200 Futures Jun22	0.00%

which is at least 60% in a 'cash ' ETF ( short term money-market )

with the leverged inverse ETF you need both timing , buying at the right time ( unlike me in March 2020 ) and speed ( NOT holding them for two bloody years hoping for a break even )

because of the structure of these inverse ( leveraged ) ETFs your $value erodes over time ( as well as being eaten by inflation ) as the ETF needs to buy/sell new futures contracts regularly

now i have held BEAR , BBOZ and BBBUS in the past , and now the ASX 200 has already lost more than 1,000 points from the peak is DOWN a good bet

i can give dozens of good reasons it is but can also give dozens of excuses why we haven't had a real crash since 2011 ( and more arguably 2008 ) , this market is NOT playing by the standard rule book

now if you really must gamble have a look at GEAR ( i have never held GEAR ) where you have lower fees , a genuine portfolio and WAIT until you think the market has bottomed ( either this correction or the crash which still hasn't arrived )

these inverse thingies are a trap for the slow-acting ( you might notice BBUS went so low that in August 2021 it was forced to consolidate , because it was looking like staying under $1 a unit )

helpful tips, thanks. quick exits for leverage ones , as u say
it's 50/50

 

[Craton]

looks like he bought at the wrong time (market declined after) .

That was my initial thought too until I looked into why Chevron was added to and became the fourth top holding. Increasing divvy's me thinks plus, paid every quarter.
Looking at the Chevron chart and assuming was bought before the up tick, I wonder if some stock was off loaded before the grizzly hit us.

 

[Gunnerguy]

Just updated my portfolio.
Down 7.6% since my ATH on 1st July 2021. Ahead of my personal benchmarks of FTSE, IWLD and AORDS.
Ahead of these benchmarks over 1,2,3, and 4 years.
Currently only 15% in cash.
Offset accounts are full (ie. equivalent to the loans they offset).
IR on loans are about 3.5%.
Considering DCAing in to the market (Index ETF, and some specific stocks).

Will I beat my IR (probably (5% by June 2023) over the next 12 months ?

Gunnerguy.

 

[Telamelo]

"Waterfall type" capitulation coming !?

 

[Value Collector]

what's buffet doing now?

Buying, especially a ship load of his own shares, Berkshire has bought back $1.3 Billion of shares in the past 6weeks, and will probably be continuing to buy $1Billion a month as long as the share price remains low.

 

[Stockbailx]

Buying, especially a ship load of his own shares, Berkshire has bought back $1.3 Billion of shares in the past 6weeks, and will probably be continuing to buy $1Billion a month as long as the share price remains low.

There keen, I guess that's why there got the big bucks. Me personally I wouldn't be buy just yet I think there's still more turmoil to come?