white_goodman
BOC
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- 13 December 2007
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What an utter pile of rubbish:frown:.
While we are at it, lets remove the guards from machinery, the stop signs at intersections, the stop lights, the seat belts, and just trust that everyone will be responsible. What a complete and utter joke.
The majority of the population is irresponsible and needs laws and regulation. Just look at the mess the banker/wankers got us into because they had zero regulation and no responsibility for their actions.
Good grief...What world do you live in? Have you actually worked with people to learn how they behave on the whole?
CanOz
I know it was your last word. but please allow me to comment. Your last statement is nonsense. Society has demonstrated time and time again that regulation leads to over regulation, which leads to totalitarian government, which leads to suffering. North Korea is a good example.
If that is so, pretty much any death could result in a manslaughter charge as someone somewhere, it could be purported that some omission of some act resulted in the death.
I know it was your last word. but please allow me to comment. Your last statement is nonsense. Society has demonstrated time and time again that regulation leads to over regulation, which leads to totalitarian government, which leads to suffering. North Korea is a good example.
Yes i agree and have said as much, but the fact that a manslaughter charge can even be laid shows what a litiguos socitey we live in now.
Thus inflaming the discussion unnecessarily.Yes Prawn, i embellished a little for effect....
This can only be a reflection of the people with whom you mix. My conclusion about my fellow human beings is on the whole entirely different.People on the whole, the majority are ignorant, irresponsible, lazy, inconsiderate, self centered and emotionally unintelligent. They will think about a million other things other than their own and others well being in potentially dangerous situations.
Ah, much is explained. If your experience is in managing factory workers, then that's a whole different world from that which I've experienced and from which I draw my conclusions.I was a factory manager in my past life
Turned out to not be your last word.As far as regulation goes, bring it on. Society had demonstrated time and time again that without it, people suffer far more than with it.
Carrot/Stick
That's my last word...enjoy your discussion.
CanOz
statism ftw in canoz's case,
wonder how much he will be trumpeting when the regulation extends to his social behavior and what he is allowed and not allowed to do
Without passing judgement on the charges....
Just to remind people the reason for pool fencing is it saves lives lots of lives statistical fact.
For those that say hell to these laws I guess they have never found a child face down or at the bottom of a swimming pool dead.
What are the consequences when this happens likely depends if that child is yours or not and whether a fence would have saved his/her life.
When i think of regulation Calliope, I'm thinking of the differences between Australia and Canada, and the US in regards to finance. From my research on the banking industry in the US, I've become disenchanted with investment banking and the dilution and removal of laws in regards to banking. I certainly do not wish for a totalitarian government, but something more than of flawed US model.
There are tens of dozens of examples where grown men and women willfully broke the law, exploited holes in the law or paid extreme amounts of money to have the law changed, to the detriment of their countrymen and of future generations. While i am certainly happy that i was not part of that, or able to suffer the consequences of their broken political system directly, i sympathize with them and share their disappointment of how the regulators let them down. Canada, under a social government has the best quality banks in world, due to reasonable regulation that forbids the gambling of the people's savings on 'innovative' self interested derivatives.
Cheers,
CanOz
ABC NewsThe Federal Government has backed a major bakery chain's advice to its franchisees to take down Liberal Party placards criticising the carbon tax.
CanOZ will love this one. Perhaps we should be careful about criticising the Carbon Tax on this forum.
ABC News
Brumby's boss has run into a whole new swathe of Labor regulations i.e. if you blame (or even suggest) a price rise may be due to the Carbon tax, they will get you. Putting a Liberal party placard in your window will also bring the regulators down on you like ton of bricks.
Ah, much is explained. If your experience is in managing factory workers, then that's a whole different world from that which I've experienced and from which I draw my conclusions.
That's a fair point. I think, though, that it depends on the regulation. If it makes sense (eg seatbelts) then people will do it without much question.I can honestly say that in all the above people have taken advantage of loopholes in any legislation or codes, whether they be rich or poor, well or poorly educated, etc.. Even if rules and regulations are in place, some will disregard them and do what they want or can get away with. It's the consequences of the actions that often have a big effect e.g. no seatbelt causing injury = medical expenditure plus someone having to clean up the mess; financial skulduggery (a.k.a. theft) resulting in losses to those who can't afford to lose it.
That's a reasonable question. Do you think the pool fencing rules, as I have described above, are reasonable?It's the enforcement that makes or breaks any rule. If there were no police but the laws remained on the books society would deteriorate - we see it overseas.
The issue is: "to what level" should be regulate/legislate?
This is where we disagree. Of course there need to be regulations regarding basic safety, e.g. do not light fires in a drought where there is long grass. Personally, I'd have thought that was so damn obvious you wouldn't need to spell it out, but apparently not.Unfortunately people in general have to be saved from themselves - either their stupidity, naivety/innocence , or the temptations, large or small, that come their way that brings out their dark side.
A close inspection of the claims made about bullying indicates that what they refer to are everyday troubles of human existence. Workplace bullying covers a multitude of sins. Virtually any negative, uncivil encounter can be, and is, defiined as bullying. The vast majority of experiences branded as bullying are what used to be called workplace politics. Bullying can mean deliverative destructive and threatening behaviour. But in most instances it refers to the normal tensions and conflicts integral to the life of work.
Unpleasant gesture, flaunting status, unwanted eye contact, ignoring a person's contribution, pulling rank or making jokes at someone's expense are now experienced as bullying In effect experts have redefined elementary forms of unpleasant and insensitive behaviour as bullying.
What the bullying industry has sought is to lower the threshold of acceptable pressure, stress and uncertainty in the workplace. The diagnosing of assertive management styles, plain speaking, undiplomatic behaviour, etc as claims for legal intervention and for financial resources implies adults possess the emotional and moral resources formerly associated with children.
Whatever the alleged costs of bullying, the price society pays for allowing its adults to be infantilised is far higher.
That's a reasonable question. Do you think the pool fencing rules, as I have described above, are reasonable?
This is where we disagree. Of course there need to be regulations regarding basic safety, e.g. do not light fires in a drought where there is long grass. Personally, I'd have thought that was so damn obvious you wouldn't need to spell it out, but apparently not.
It's along the same lines as the medicalising of ordinary human emotions. It seems every episode of normal sadness following an unhappy event is now classified as depression and requires pharmacological intervention.
I don't know if anyone here can get what I'm on about, but it seems to me that in so many areas, our lives are being interfered with by various people who declare they know what is best for us. Imo it's going to be ultimately counterproductive as we produce a society that has lost the capacity for its members to think for themselves.
I don't have a problem with fencing pools, in my state its been compulsory as far back as i remember.
The issue is not just about who has access to a backyard, but the pool itself - with the risks being from children who live in the house, are visiting the house etc. who are unattended for whatever reason.
... the expectation of idiocy ...
its kind of an insulting attitude, who cares more for children, the government or their parents?
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