- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,099
- Reactions
- 16,885
- Joined
- 8 June 2008
- Posts
- 12,424
- Reactions
- 18,086
Usa is not capitalism..goto China for economic capitalism..the ironyIt is by no means the worst system in the world though.
USA.......
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
- Joined
- 9 July 2004
- Posts
- 25,581
- Reactions
- 12,707
... just a little reminder, don't get confused between capitalism and corporatism.
Corporatism can sometimes look pretty anti-capitalistic
Corporatism can sometimes look pretty anti-capitalistic
PZ99
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
- Joined
- 13 May 2015
- Posts
- 3,303
- Reactions
- 2,402
Every socialist program comes with waste. Which is generally why capitalists oppose them.
But if you weigh it up against the alternatives our healthcare is still a valid economic model.
Not bad for a country with a populace too small to sustain manufacturing and relies on quarries and beaches.
If Australia can get it right - anyone can.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,657
- Reactions
- 11,959
A country like the US could certainly do a universal health care system economically, whether they could do it politically is another matter. Too many greedy doctors wanting to charge what ever they want and won't be told by the government how much they can charge. Obama tried, but the first whiff of a Right Wing government and UHC gets flushed down the toilet.
I wish Bernie luck, but he's got a big battle with vested interests if he wants a Medicare system system in the US.
If you are talking about terrible doctors and hospitals that regularly kill people through incompetence, I'd agree. But decent service here comes at a much higher price then other countries.
Socialism breeds a kind of below average incompetence that is then protected by unions. Schools are another example. Sweden model is a lot better. But I think that could have a big part to do with their culture. They are having huge problems with the model they use due to mass migration.
Things that once worked are now crumbling.
Not to say capitalism is perfect. There are flaws in every model.
PZ99
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
- Joined
- 13 May 2015
- Posts
- 3,303
- Reactions
- 2,402
Can't say I'm aware of regular deaths from bad doctors and hospitals solely due to us having Medicare. Presumably if you cut funding you produce unintended consequences.
If there's a case for switching to capitalism to avoid the above I'd like to see it. Even better if it can be done with political impartiality
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,047
- Reactions
- 23,587
From someone who has had to use the healthcare system in Australia, I would have to say it is very good, everyone in the family who can afford private cover have it, the one that doesn't have the money doesn't have it.
It is one of the systems put in place by Labor, that actually works as intended IMO, which just shows the talent Labor had in its ranks back then.
The gap system is annoying, but if it wasn't there, the doctors would just keep ramping prices which the health funds would pay and premiums would go stupid as in the U.S.
It isn't a perfect system, but in reality it is not immediately obvious to find a way which would make it better, so it can't be too bad.
The only real problems associated with it IMO are, abuse by both the doctors side and the users side, but that's human nature.
Just my opinion.
It is one of the systems put in place by Labor, that actually works as intended IMO, which just shows the talent Labor had in its ranks back then.
The gap system is annoying, but if it wasn't there, the doctors would just keep ramping prices which the health funds would pay and premiums would go stupid as in the U.S.
It isn't a perfect system, but in reality it is not immediately obvious to find a way which would make it better, so it can't be too bad.
The only real problems associated with it IMO are, abuse by both the doctors side and the users side, but that's human nature.
Just my opinion.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,657
- Reactions
- 11,959
I think Labor (Rudd from memory) made a mistake by selling off Medibank private, most likely because of pressure from the other Health insurance corporates.
MP acted as a price check against continual premium increases, even if the insurance companies screamed "unfair competition". That's just tough luck for them. Health care has to work for the consumers and corporates should take second place.
If I was advising Labor I'd suggest they get back into the insurance business, not just for health but home insurance as well which is rapidly becoming unaffordable.
I have way to many stories to tell. Most involve deaths through gross incompetence. One in particular was my unborn child. I've seen some of the worst things going on in hospitals. The only time I saw anything resembling competent practices was in one of the newer private hospitals.Can't say I'm aware of regular deaths from bad doctors and hospitals solely due to us having Medicare. Presumably if you cut funding you produce unintended consequences.
If there's a case for switching to capitalism to avoid the above I'd like to see it. Even better if it can be done with political impartiality
I wouldn't advocate for a US style system but that doesn't make our medical system any shining light to copy.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,657
- Reactions
- 11,959
I'm sure those views also exist in Australia but we have a system that is accepted by most of the population as being the best solution.
Any party that proposes scrapping Medicare will get slaughtered at the next election.
Malcolm Fraser got rid of the old Medibank and that didn't do him much good electorally.
PZ99
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
- Joined
- 13 May 2015
- Posts
- 3,303
- Reactions
- 2,402
It was a mistake economically. A quick $4 billion sell off at the cost of half a billion a year in dividend revenue. I think it was Abbott.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,657
- Reactions
- 11,959
You're right.
"Medibank began business as an Australian Government-owned private health insurer, established by the Whitlam Government in 1975 through the Health Insurance Commission.[2] Medibank was set up to provide competition to private "for-profit" health funds. It was designed to put pressure on other health funds to keep premiums at a reasonable level.[3][4]
In 2006, the Howard Coalition Government announced that Medibank would be sold in a public float if it won the 2007 election,[5][6][7] however they were defeated by the Australian Labor Party under Kevin Rudd which had already pledged that Medibank would remain in government ownership. After 2009, although continuing in government ownership, Medibank operated as a government business enterprise, operating as a fully commercialised business paying tax and dividends under the same regulatory regime as do other registered private health funds. Before the 2010 election, Liberal leader Tony Abbott made the same pledge to privatise Medibank if it won government, but the party was again defeated by Labor. Privatisation was again Liberal party policy at the 2013 election, which the Coalition won."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medibank
In that case, The Libs made the big mistake.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,047
- Reactions
- 23,587
We just have to be careful which system we are blaming IMO, is it the health system or the training and education system?
IMO too many people get stamped as being competent, because they sat in a classroom for the prescribed time, that goes for a lot professions and technical training.
Just my opinion.
- Joined
- 8 June 2008
- Posts
- 12,424
- Reactions
- 18,086
Or the smokers or drug addicts..should i carry on?
Or the gluttinous!
I see where jeff Bezos has given 10bn to enable the fight against climate change.Didn't Twiggy give 70 million to the bushfire appeal-50 million of which was to fund a 'peer reviewed' study into why the fires were not caused by climate change.Which one is from the loony left?Or neither?
On the flip side the US does have some fantastic doctors and surgeons. They really know their speciality. Next level on a lot of things.It is by no means the worst system in the world though.
USA.......
Here on the other hand, it's generally handing out antibiotics with the 4 min interview to catch their next paycheck.
The way the system is setup, breeds a lot of incompetence. Public health systems were a joke. Things may have got better, but I highly doubt it.
