The lunatic left

qldfrog · 16 November 2019

Should we open a new thread on the bushfires? @Joe Blow
I suspect this will have major economic consequences
Obviously, insurances, construction, an expected GDP boost..
I know but remember the best GDP is achieved with terminally ill people spending years in intensive units..
I expect some more red green tape counter intuitive but my expectation in Australia 2019
And money for class actions so law firms.

Joe Blow · 16 November 2019

qldfrog said:
Should we open a new thread on the bushfires? @Joe Blow
I suspect this will have major economic consequences
Obviously, insurances, construction, an expected GDP boost..
I know but remember the best GDP is achieved with terminally ill people spending years in intensive units..
I expect some more red green tape counter intuitive but my expectation in Australia 2019
And money for class actions so law firms.

Sure. Feel free to start a new thread.

basilio · 16 November 2019

The question of hazard-reduction burns raised its head often.

“They’re saying it’s the Greenies stopping us from doing these hazard-reduction burns,” one firefighter says. “It’s the lack of xxxking resources and people to do it.

“No one joins up until the sxit hits the fan.”

Munns, too, says it had simply been “too dry” to burn off during the winter.

“It was a very, very tight window,” he says. “And then in the small window we had we got a tiny, tiny bit of rain, which ruined us because then it was too wet to do any burning.

“There’s one thing that’s going to stop all of this. It’s called rain.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...l-of-fire-the-biggest-flames-i-have-ever-seen

qldfrog · 16 November 2019

basilio said:
The question of hazard-reduction burns raised its head often.

“They’re saying it’s the Greenies stopping us from doing these hazard-reduction burns,” one firefighter says. “It’s the lack of xxxking resources and people to do it.

“No one joins up until the sxit hits the fan.”

Munns, too, says it had simply been “too dry” to burn off during the winter.

“It was a very, very tight window,” he says. “And then in the small window we had we got a tiny, tiny bit of rain, which ruined us because then it was too wet to do any burning.

“There’s one thing that’s going to stop all of this. It’s called rain.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...l-of-fire-the-biggest-flames-i-have-ever-seen

On fires
A bit of the lunatic left: yes there are pressure from the greens and a green tape
1)
I am forbidden legally by council to cut any tree on my small farm big block unless it represents an immediate..aka not fire..danger to property..so no clearing legally..as
many i do it, and cut regrowth along fire breaks etc but very selective
But more and more people are moving in the area
My house is 40+y old, there was a bushfire 30+ y ago and house survived no problem.
i bought the place 20y ago and asked, as a member of the rfb, to do a controlled burn.was told then that as new houses had pop up on the other side of the mountain, we are not allowed anymore, that was 20y ago, 9 neighbours added in the last 5y, it is a disaster in waiting, fuel load atrocious, will reach canopy
I am confident in my place and ability to defend if present, but it will be horrendous when it happens
With sheoaks and banksia on the ridge, no need for climate change to know it is supposed to burn in the area yet it is ignored
So just to say population growth, corruption for development, stupid council regulation and added human sheer stupidity which can always surprise...i believe the green belt around our cities is in for a rude shock,remember Dandenong fires not so long ago
So greens are not the only one to blame we all agree if reasonable
Add as well volunteering dropping
In the rfb, i spent 4 months every week in formal h&s training, a waste of money and time to end up being treated as **** by some of the community
Free labour...
So not an active rfb member anymore.
beings employed, a day fighting a fire was costing me 1 k so that a developer could bulldoze its estate more easily..last drop before leaving

So , over regulation, greentape, red tape, self entitlement, personal cost with no recognitions, liabilities
Summarise most of the problems in Australia doesn't it
I forgot co2 and domestic violence, or my skin colour but some did not forget....

macca · 16 November 2019

Hi QF

Yep, all true, I quite often shake my head when they put photos of burnt out houses in the media.

Houses built on top of escarpments, might as well build on the top of a chimney.

Houses with trees hanging over the roof lines, gutters full of leaves and debris waiting to be lit from flying sparks.

Yesterday I drove through a hilly area which backs on to native bush, there were many houses with roof valleys that had a metre or three of dead leaves etc just lying there waiting for the next bush fire in that native bush area.

Looking at the bush I would estimate about 10-15 years since it went up, no reduction recently. lots and lots of rubbish in between the trees.

No doubt, when (not if) it goes up it will take a few houses with it and of course that will be climate change won't it.

In reality it is stupidity but who takes the blame for a local situation they created, oh no not us

Smurf1976 · 16 November 2019

macca said:
Houses with trees hanging over the roof lines, gutters full of leaves and debris waiting to be lit from flying sparks.

Around here the regulations are that trees within 10 meters of a house can be remove or pruned unless they're a willow or eucalypt in which case you're stuck with them unless you're willing to spend $$$ and jump through all the hoops. Not impossible but a barrier to removal in practice.

Thankfully we all know that gum trees are among the least hazardous trees and don't burn or anything like that, thus making them a good choice of species to have right next to a house.

Not to worry though, the council thoughtfully sends out notices reminding everyone of the importance of fire safety. It mentions all the sensible things apart from the obvious about trees overhanging houses not being a good idea.

I'm in favour of having sensibly selected trees but that doesn't mean great big gum trees right next to someone's house with limbs overhanging the entire structure. That's just being silly.

qldfrog · 16 November 2019

macca said:
Hi QF

Yep, all true, I quite often shake my head when they put photos of burnt out houses in the media.

Houses built on top of escarpments, might as well build on the top of a chimney.

Houses with trees hanging over the roof lines, gutters full of leaves and debris waiting to be lit from flying sparks.

Yesterday I drove through a hilly area which backs on to native bush, there were many houses with roof valleys that had a metre or three of dead leaves etc just lying there waiting for the next bush fire in that native bush area.

Looking at the bush I would estimate about 10-15 years since it went up, no reduction recently. lots and lots of rubbish in between the trees.

No doubt, when (not if) it goes up it will take a few houses with it and of course that will be climate change won't it.

In reality it is stupidity but who takes the blame for a local situation they created, oh no not us

Where was it by interest?

macca · 16 November 2019

qldfrog said:
Where was it by interest?

The ones I know for sure have been in the Blue Mtns but here is one in QLD, Binna Burra Lodge which burnt down.

It has been there for decades, it seems rather odd that now that we have huge aircraft and lots of whiz bang equipment to fight fires with, it gets burnt down.

We have had plenty of droughts in the time that the building has been there so it is not just the dry weather.

In the past fires were fought with knapsacks and fire beaters, perhaps they were a bit more cautious or perhaps they just got lazy, what else could it be ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...na-burra-lodge-gold-coast-hinterland/11489860

qldfrog · 16 November 2019

macca said:
The ones I know for sure have been in the Blue Mtns but here is one in QLD, Binna Burra Lodge which burnt down.

It has been there for decades, it seems rather odd that now that we have huge aircraft and lots of whiz bang equipment to fight fires with, it gets burnt down.

We have had plenty of droughts in the time that the building has been there so it is not just the dry weather.

In the past fires were fought with knapsacks and fire beaters, perhaps they were a bit more cautious or perhaps they just got lazy, what else could it be ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09...na-burra-lodge-gold-coast-hinterland/11489860

Binna burra lodge and adjoining propertis were burn in a fire started by teenagers,since known and "cautioned" by police...lalaland it is..
if you consider that our population has doubled since 1972, there will be probably twice as many fire started than then by crazy or negligent people, and more and more australians are living in cities/suburbs with no clues about basically fire, even not wild ones
it would be good to have some data matching this drought to the confederation drought, how bad is this one vs a century ago
lastly photos from my local area in the 1950 show it deforested with agricultural plantations or dairies, now it is endless trees with buildings inter-seeded , one of the beauty of living here, but a risk too

Logique · 17 November 2019

National Parks NSW quite rightly say, their ranger numbers are steadily falling, as the governments of all stripes slash departmental budgets. So who is there with the experience and expertise to plan and approve natural area hazard reduction. This is quite apart from the philosophical issues within that department.

But it's false economy. Look at the cash the State blows on summer bushfires. And they say yachting is like standing in a shower, ripping up $100 dollar bills! The yachties have got nothing on the General Napoleons of the NSW Rural Fire Service!

As has been said, local governments need to be accountable as well, with new subdivisions and building approvals still happening in some very bushfire hazardous places.

On reflection, it's not really an exclusively Left wing issue

Knobby22 · 17 November 2019

Logique said:
On reflection, it's not really an exclusively Left wing issue

Hooray! So easy for the media and government to call an issue Left Wing so they can hide their incompetence and inaction. Much easier than actually doing something.

qldfrog · 17 November 2019

Yeap, not only left wing but when you see the usual culprits linking global warming, white blaming/colonisation and even DV to this natural event amplified by incompetence, blood is boiling
Some interesting searches on drought, the 2000 ones and the big federation one "
During the drought, the wheat crop was "all but lost", and the Darling River was dry at Bourke, New South Wales, for over a year, from April 1902 to May 1903. "
Cycle of drought is around 14 to 18y, and has been so since records started in the 1800 so there is a strong possibility we are in for a nasty year or 2.

Smurf1976 · 17 November 2019

To be honest I’m a bit fed up with hearing that this, that or something else has to change because of population growth.

If the powers that be are insistent on constant growth then either build the infrastructure required to maintain an unchanged lifestyle without all these trade offs or put a stop to the whole ponzi scheme of pretending that constant growth won’t ultimately consume literally everything.

If the Left wants something to oppose then this growth obsession would surely be at or near top of the list.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-17/how-skyscrapers-are-reshaping-australian-suburbs/11697614

qldfrog · 17 November 2019

Knobby22 said:
Hooray! So easy for the media and government to call an issue Left Wing so they can hide their incompetence and inaction. Much easier than actually doing something.

We will agree, but left policies in teem of regrowth clearing laws have a lot to be blamed in the country, around NP and suburbs, i think gov overall have a lot to be answered so yes not only the leftist..

Knobby22 · 17 November 2019

qldfrog said:
We will agree, but left policies in teem of regrowth clearing laws have a lot to be blamed in the country, around NP and suburbs, i think gov overall have a lot to be answered so yes not only the leftist..

As Logique said, cutback to management budgets, less rangers, not enough fire fighting resources etc. Liberal Government in control at both State and Federally in NSW.

Who cares about Green policies? There not in control. The buck stops with them.

Smurf1976 · 17 November 2019

Knobby22 said:
Who cares about Green policies? There not in control. The buck stops with them.

Playing the devil's advocate here.....

The Greens have never formed majority government and in most states have not formed part of a minority government.

I'm pretty sure though that if someone asked the Greens for a list of their achievements then it wouldn't be a blank page. Rather, they'd claim to have lobbied or otherwise persuaded one or both of the major parties to do whatever.

Now you can't really claim to be lobbying others and getting them to do what you want whilst also claiming to not be able to influence anything. That's in the same category as claiming credit for the new building going up but saying it was nothing to do with you when it fell down. Either you're responsible for it or you're not.

I don't know the truth about any role they've had regarding fires but I do see a definite inconsistency between claims of having achieved this and that versus claims of not being in government therefore unable to do anything.

qldfrog · 17 November 2019

Knobby22 said:
As Logique said, cutback to management budgets, less rangers, not enough fire fighting resources etc. Liberal Government in control at both State and Federally in NSW.

Who cares about Green policies? There not in control. The buck stops with them.

I have to state my knowledge is only valid for Qld with one of the worst government we have had, labour included
But a great girlfriends club in power

PZ99 · 17 November 2019

qldfrog said:
Much appreciate being pointed out as a complete idiot to hint that a lady doing male bashing running her DV agenda in a released speech next to a green leader can be assumed as left wing
Sorry she is probably voting LNP or one nation.after all, she is a news limited journo.
My apologies to all NOT.. disappointed @PZ99

Why not just call it for what it really was instead of politicising it for the sake of nothing ?
You could have just as easily labelled it as far right - it would've been just as accurate.

If apoliticism is a crime in the zettabyte era then PZ99 is guilty as charged so I guess that's too bad.

And I don't think you're an idiot either.

Humid · 17 November 2019

Smurf1976 said:
Playing the devil's advocate here.....

The Greens have never formed majority government and in most states have not formed part of a minority government.

I'm pretty sure though that if someone asked the Greens for a list of their achievements then it wouldn't be a blank page. Rather, they'd claim to have lobbied or otherwise persuaded one or both of the major parties to do whatever.

Now you can't really claim to be lobbying others and getting them to do what you want whilst also claiming to not be able to influence anything. That's in the same category as claiming credit for the new building going up but saying it was nothing to do with you when it fell down. Either you're responsible for it or you're not.

I don't know the truth about any role they've had regarding fires but I do see a definite inconsistency between claims of having achieved this and that versus claims of not being in government therefore unable to do anything.

Last time I checked it’s called democracy

chiff · 18 November 2019

qldfrog said:
Yeap, not only left wing but when you see the usual culprits linking global warming, white blaming/colonisation and even DV to this natural event amplified by incompetence, blood is boiling
Some interesting searches on drought, the 2000 ones and the big federation one "
During the drought, the wheat crop was "all but lost", and the Darling River was dry at Bourke, New South Wales, for over a year, from April 1902 to May 1903. "
Cycle of drought is around 14 to 18y, and has been so since records started in the 1800 so there is a strong possibility we are in for a nasty year or 2.

Before the weirs and locks came on the River Murray there were periods when one could walk across the river.I think they were introduced about 1920 or around that.I guess that the same thing happened on the Darling-there was nothing to stop the flow draining away.

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