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The Illegals keep arriving

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Out Too Soon said:
(@ Bobby & like-minded)
If you went outside our borders Mr Xenophobe you might realise there is a whole world of people out there, many not as well off or lucky as ourselves. So instead of asking your pointless ignorant question why not ask when are Australians like yourself going to stop acting like selfish little children & open your heart to the possibility that we can help these poor people @ very little cost to ourselves.:topic

Happy now? got the response you were looking for? Go live in Darfur for a while (if you know where that is) :mad:
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Actually they PAY MONEY to get here which is more than what a genuine person would do who goes through the official channels.

Actually, they all go on welfare to some degree paid for by taxpayers. There is an article called "Salute the Danish Flag" that dispells your myths.
 
Riddick said:
5. discussions of this nature are not racist. just because you dont't want to share what you have with someone of a different race, who happens to have less than you, does not make you racist. If you choose a governement that then persecutes you, well thats just too bad. sorry.
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Yes, because everyone on this planet gets to:

a. Choose their government
b. Have that government elected in free, non-currupt elections
c. Live under a benevolent government that treats all it's people well

Do you actually believe this?
 
Agentm said:
lol

i asked for any other examples of colonialism with genocide and dispossession mr j, your answer shows you have no knowledge of any other examples..

your rewrite on the post colonialist australian aboriginal genocide is laughable.

can you post up those man many historic examples please which makes the dispossession and genocide in australia "pale in comparison" ??
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I'm happy to oblige here but first lets straighten out some definitions. The treatment of aborigines by white settlers was not genocide. For arguments sake lets use the definition as defined in the 1948 convention on the prevention and punishment of genocide:

1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and

2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide."

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

evidently there were some actions undertaken by white settlers that parallel genocidal behaviours however there are glaring exceptions and it is these exceptions that prove the difference.

1. with an estimated australia wide population of under 1 million individuals, there were hundreds of distinct language and cultural groups living in australia at the time of white settlement. these people did not classify themeselves as one people and in many cases frequently warred. as a result of this, action against a distinct group of people does not transfer to the indigenous population as whole. ie if you kill 100 people from perth, this is not a crime against those living in sydney just because they share the same "country"

2. there has never been, pre or post federation, a policy of destroying aboriginal cultures. the areas of contention were always where white settlers were pushing into new pastures, mining areas and the like. there was very little conflict between white settlers and the walpiri peoples of the NT for example.

3. there was never a national effort to stop births through processes of enforced sterilisation on a wide scale. Some of this may or may not have happened but it was certainly not policy and was certainly not national.

so, lots of pretty ordinary things happened but it was definitely not genocide. nasty: yes, terrible: yes, should ti have happened: probably not.

was it genocide? definitely not.

so with that in mind: examples of colonisation from the last 500 years.

*portugal and spain enter the americas and destroy the advanced indigenous cultures, keep the land and Philip II orders the natives destroyed. and the spanish took the gold. Pizzaro kills 10 000 natives in one day stopping only becasue it got too dark to see.
*English in NZ -stopped and formalised by the treaty of waitangi.
* colonisation of hawaii
* the french in vietnam, laos, cambodia and polynesia
* English in india, sri lanka
* ethnic russians in the baltic states after ww2.
* french in north africa, tunisia and the cameroon
* english and dutch in the "east indies"

want more examples?
 
Riddick said:
I'm happy to oblige here but first lets straighten out some definitions. The treatment of aborigines by white settlers was not genocide. For arguments sake lets use the definition as defined in the 1948 convention on the prevention and punishment of genocide:

1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and

2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide."

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

evidently there were some actions undertaken by white settlers that parallel genocidal behaviours however there are glaring exceptions and it is these exceptions that prove the difference.

1. with an estimated australia wide population of under 1 million individuals, there were hundreds of distinct language and cultural groups living in australia at the time of white settlement. these people did not classify themeselves as one people and in many cases frequently warred. as a result of this, action against a distinct group of people does not transfer to the indigenous population as whole. ie if you kill 100 people from perth, this is not a crime against those living in sydney just because they share the same "country"

2. there has never been, pre or post federation, a policy of destroying aboriginal cultures. the areas of contention were always where white settlers were pushing into new pastures, mining areas and the like. there was very little conflict between white settlers and the walpiri peoples of the NT for example.

3. there was never a national effort to stop births through processes of enforced sterilisation on a wide scale. Some of this may or may not have happened but it was certainly not policy and was certainly not national.

so, lots of pretty ordinary things happened but it was definitely not genocide. nasty: yes, terrible: yes, should ti have happened: probably not.

was it genocide? definitely not.

so with that in mind: examples of colonisation from the last 500 years.

*portugal and spain enter the americas and destroy the advanced indigenous cultures, keep the land and Philip II orders the natives destroyed. and the spanish took the gold. Pizzaro kills 10 000 natives in one day stopping only becasue it got too dark to see.
*English in NZ -stopped and formalised by the treaty of waitangi.
* colonisation of hawaii
* the french in vietnam, laos, cambodia and polynesia
* English in india, sri lanka
* ethnic russians in the baltic states after ww2.
* french in north africa, tunisia and the cameroon
* english and dutch in the "east indies"

want more examples?
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great debate

please

more cut and pastes too!! :D:D


lets forget the tasmanian kill.. and the white australia policy..

the way to feel good about genocide is to minimise it.. think of other examples of it and to say as it happened elsewhere so it justifiable
 
Agentm said:
great debate

please

more cut and pastes too!! :D:D


lets forget the tasmanian kill.. and the white australia policy..

the way to feel good about genocide is to minimise it.. think of other examples of it and to say as it happened elsewhere so it justifiable
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the white australia policy was about immigration and had nothing to do with aborigines.

no one here is justifying genocide. Genocide obviously didn't happen in australia. You would only say it was genocide if you were taking an emotional stance. and arguements are not based on emotions. they are based on evidence.
 
Riddick said:
the white australia policy was about immigration and had nothing to do with aborigines.

no one here is justifying genocide. Genocide obviously didn't happen in australia. You would only say it was genocide if you were taking an emotional stance. and arguements are not based on emotions. they are based on evidence.
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ohh riddick, this is real gold...
 
Agentm said:
ohh riddick, this is real gold...
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It would be gold if you actually contributed something to the dabate. it kind of feels like i am the only doing the work and you are sitting in a cafe somewhere, sipping your skinny chai latte with only two fingers and attempting unsuccessfully to look down you nose at me past your half rim reading glasses, much to the entertainment of others in the general vicinity who can see through your pseudo intellectual affectations.

like i said, if you have an opinion, backed up with evidence by all means I'd love to hear it as would other forum users. But don't tut tut me. i'm not really the emotional type. i leave the bleeding heart stuff to those with arts degrees and govenrment grants for research in to social equity issues.

so don't patronise. contribute or be silent.
 
Out Too Soon said:
So instead of asking your pointless ignorant question why not ask when are Australians like yourself going to stop acting like selfish little children & open your heart to the possibility that we can help these poor people @ very little cost to ourselves.
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This sort of naïve tripe makes my blood boil! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Perhaps, before we throw open our borders and welcome the hundreds of millions of unskilled poor and dispossessed from Africa, Middle East and Asia to come, so we can shower them with our generous hospitality and give them all nice houses, comfortable allowances to live on, free health care etc, and create that lovely coffee coloured utopian multicultural society you dream of, we should have a close look at the experiences of other countries who have gone down that path. Have a close look at UK, France, Netherlands, Sweden, etc. and note the racial tensions and social problems that the flood of both legal and illegal immigrants has created in those countries. The rising popularity of the British National Party suggests the Brits are becoming increasingly disenchanted with their own multiculturalism policies. My neighbour, a Brit, recently returned from an eight week visit with his family and reported that the tension and aggression there is so high that he dared not make eye contact with anyone as he walked down the street. He said a lot of Brits are now seeking refuge in rural France!!!

I’d like to see a survey of the original residents, of say 60 yrs ago, of Lakemba and Cabramatta to see how many of them think that multiculturalism is a such a wonderful idea.

I don’t have a problem with offering temporary refuge to severely persecuted people but, unless they have skills which are of use to us, they should be encouraged to return home as early as possible and fight to improve their own countries instead of taking the easy option of seeking the good life in other countries where the hard work of building a peaceful society has already been done.

I do have a big problem with these economic opportunists who come to our relatively peaceful little country, with all of their religious and cultural baggage, and then seek to establish the same sort of society here that forced them to seek refuge in the first place.

People with your mentality should be encouraged to go and live in Darfur and stay there!
 
Riddick said:
5. discussions of this nature are not racist. just because you dont't want to share what you have with someone of a different race, who happens to have less than you, does not make you racist.
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No but the way in which Bobby opened this thread, by generically referring to illegal immigrants as "BS Illegals", "Grubs" and "Parasites" conveys a bigoted viewpoint and is not a constructive way to open a debate and is thus unlikely to lead to constructive discussion. Its deliberately derogatory and inflammatory, designed to attract exactly the type of response that it has.

So I'd repeat the viewpoint that a thread opened in this manner contributes nothing to ASF. (not to mention the fact that there are already a million and one threads on the topic so I don't know why another one needed to be started).
 
And for anyone that has too much time on their hands and wants to waste it reading yet more innane circular debates about the pro's and con's of immigration and of Australian treatment of aboriginals there are these other mind numbingly tedious discussions on the topic on ASF where the same arguments get paraded around again and again and again ad nauseum. Great content for a stock forum :rolleyes:. (A few of these also started by Bobby).


https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15213&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9694&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2717&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4171&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2931&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15127&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14460&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13773&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13105&highlight=illegal+immigrants

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8685&highlight=illegal+immigrants
 
The rising popularity of the British National Party suggests the Brits are becoming increasingly disenchanted with their own multiculturalism policies.
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Yes they may have reached saturation point.

I would love all human beings to accept each other and live side by side but you don`t put the chimpanzees in the gorilla cage even though they are from the same genera.
 
Riddick said:
It kind of feels like i am the only doing the work and you are sitting in a cafe somewhere, sipping your skinny chai latte with only two fingers and attempting unsuccessfully to look down you nose at me past your half rim reading glasses, much to the entertainment of others in the general vicinity who can see through your pseudo intellectual affectations.
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Riddick, that's an excellent piece of descriptive writing! I just had a vivid image like I was looking at a photo. Well done!!! :)
 
cuttlefish said:
No but the way in which Bobby opened this thread, by generically referring to illegal immigrants as "BS Illegals", "Grubs" and "Parasites" conveys a bigoted viewpoint and is not a constructive way to open a debate and is thus unlikely to lead to constructive discussion. Its deliberately derogatory and inflammatory, designed to attract exactly the type of response that it has.

So I'd repeat the viewpoint that a thread opened in this manner contributes nothing to ASF.
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I agree, well said..
 
cuttlefish said:
No but the way in which Bobby opened this thread, by generically referring to illegal immigrants as "BS Illegals", "Grubs" and "Parasites" conveys a bigoted viewpoint and is not a constructive way to open a debate and is thus unlikely to lead to constructive discussion. Its deliberately derogatory and inflammatory, designed to attract exactly the type of response that it has.
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Hey cuttlefish have a look at this video for an example of refugee grubs doing there thing in AUSTRALIA !!!!!!!!! :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dIkf0k747c
 
I think it's time to close this thread now.

Unfortunately, the thread was started with the intention of bashing a particular group of people rather than as an attempt at genuine debate about the impact of illegal immigration.

If people wish to start a thread about a controversial topic then please do it without being inflammatory or calling people grubs or parasites. I do not wish to see any particular group of people vilified in this way on ASF.

I think the ASF community is (with the odd exception) mature enough to discuss controversial topics. However, that being said, I don't want to see them presented in this manner any longer.
 
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