The Gonski Report

[jersey10]

The biggest problem with our education system is that it exists in an anti-authoritarian culture.

The other major problem with the education system is how teachers are remunerated.

The drop out rate is alarming and the number of teachers who would like to drop out but don't is more alarming. The reason for this is it's a *!#$ of a job mainly due to the culture that devalues education and devalues authority.

Teachers are paid not for how well they do their job, they are paid for how long they have been in their job - what a joke. I was in the education system and there were teachers arriving for work at 7am and leaving at 6pm who were brilliant teachers who produced great outcomes for their students. These teachers had been in the system for 1-3 years and were on about 60k per year. Then there were teachers who would arrive at 8:45, leave at 3:15, were crap teachers and produced very little outcomes for their students. These these teachers had been in the system for 10 years plus and were on about 75k - 80k. This is doomed to fail every time. The teachers who have been in the system have no motivation but to just stay in the system. The 'good' teachers get pissed off and either leave or drop their standards and become a teacher who stays in the system. Until this scenario is addressed it will never work.

On top of that, the longer they have been in the system and receive salary increases they do less teaching not more.

I am now in a different part of the education sector and often interview final year university primary education students. I am bewildered how often i come across people at this level who cannot spell or do mathematics at primary school level.

 

[chops_a_must]

Great post!

 

[sptrawler]

They still don't get it.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/merit-pay-showdown-looms-20130316-2g7tz.html

I doubt very much, teachers in private schools get paid more than teachers in public schools. More likely the other way round, as it is for nurses.
However I would think job satisfaction in private schools is much better.
Also parents who pay for their childrens education expect something of an outcome, if it is a poor outcome they can question it, when they have paid for it.
The public school system is a shambles, throwing more money at teachers isn't the answer.IMO
Get back to basics, discipline and assessable outcomes.
Giving teachers more money for the same outcome is dumb. They would be better off giving students cash incentives for results.lol

 

[banco]

They still don't get it.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/merit-pay-showdown-looms-20130316-2g7tz.html

I doubt very much, teachers in private schools get paid more than teachers in public schools. More likely the other way round, as it is for nurses.
However I would think job satisfaction in private schools is much better.
Also parents who pay for their childrens education expect something of an outcome, if it is a poor outcome they can question it, when they have paid for it.
The public school system is a shambles, throwing more money at teachers isn't the answer.IMO
Get back to basics, discipline and assessable outcomes.
Giving teachers more money for the same outcome is dumb. They would be better off giving students cash incentives for results.lol

Maybe not in the Catholic system but the more expensive private schools pay considerably better than public schools particularly at senior levels. The principal at MLC (where they had the big spat with the board) was on $600,000 plus benefits I think.

 

[sptrawler]

Maybe not in the Catholic system but the more expensive private schools pay considerably better than public schools particularly at senior levels. The principal at MLC (where they had the big spat with the board) was on $600,000 plus benefits I think.

Well from teachers I know in 'normal' private schools, they are on less than similar suburb public school teachers.
Also on the nursing front, my other half was paid less working in private rather than public hospitals.
I should know, we had many arguements when I was trying to convince her to work in the public system as the pay was higher.
Funnily enough it was all the work place political crap that turned her off public hospitals.

Also with regard MLC, I bet the parents expect outcomes, if they aren't forth coming one would expect answers.

 

[orr]

This exemplifies what is proven to work; An interview with Pasi Shalberg Director of Finish Education.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf65Z_gqH1U

 

[orr]

An Hour long talk by Pasi Schulberg whilst in australia April last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=YoMzsaRTW5U

Public education when raised to this standard is a threat to all established Private and Church school hierarchy and Institutions.

 

[ROE]

sometimes it is easier to blame the system but parents and society play big part in kids schooling and education...

what I seen in the last decade is kids growing up with lack of discipline, lack of respect for authority, from there it hatches into other problems.....

kids education doesn't start and end at school, parents got to get involve and from what I seen people around my work place...they just outsource their responsibilities to school and plan the next over sea holiday...kids dont understand their subjects, ah school not doing enough, kids get out of hand school cant discipline them afraid parents may sue...

How about turn off the TV and spend time and teach your kids, use the money get them extra help and tutor instead of oversea holiday or learn from someone who sent their kids to public school and get superb outcome

my 2c and observation...

 

[Julia]

sometimes it is easier to blame the system but parents and society play big part in kids schooling and education...

what I seen in the last decade is kids growing up with lack of discipline, lack of respect for authority, from there it hatches into other problems.....

kids education doesn't start and end at school, parents got to get involve and from what I seen people around my work place...they just outsource their responsibilities to school and plan the next over sea holiday...kids dont understand their subjects, ah school not doing enough, kids get out of hand school cant discipline them afraid parents may sue...

How about turn off the TV and spend time and teach your kids, use the money get them extra help and tutor instead of oversea holiday or learn from someone who sent their kids to public school and get superb outcome

my 2c and observation...

+1.
A friend of mine teaches English and History at a public high school. Because he's a bloke, and because he has 30 years of experience managing difficult students, he is assigned the worst students. This means he spends most of his time attempting to control disruption rather than actually being able to engage in useful teaching.

Just an example: A 15 year old boy who constantly disrupts the class, when told to leave the room so the rest of the class could get on with their work, responded: "I don't have to do s**t, you motherf*****er. You can't tell me what to do , you f***ing c**t.

My friend duly reported the kid to the Deputy Principal as protocol dictates, and she declined to suspend him.
A phone call to the kid's father brought more abuse of the nature described above by the boy.

No wonder few capable people want to be teachers.

 

[drsmith]

It looks like the government it going to raise funding for Gonski from within the broader education budget,

The Federal Government has announced a $2 billion cut to the university sector to help pay for its school education reforms as recommended by the Gonski review.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-13/gonski/4627278

THE federal government will set a $2000 cap on how much people can claim on work-related expenses for education.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-claims-to-2000/story-fn59niix-1226619711741

Just an example: A 15 year old boy who constantly disrupts the class, when told to leave the room so the rest of the class could get on with their work, responded: "I don't have to do s**t, you motherf*****er. You can't tell me what to do , you f***ing c**t.

I can remember when I was in year 9 a fellow student telling a teacher fo f*** off in class. He was immediately ordered to the principal's office. I never knew what his fate was but the cane was still in use in those days.

 

[drsmith]

It will be interesting to see how the Opposition handles today's school funding package from the government. One obvious line will be that money alone doesn't necessarily help.

This is from Feb last year,

A new report says Australian high school students are now up to three years behind in maths compared with students in parts of Asia, despite increasing funding.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3433856.htm

 

[Julia]

One obvious line will be that money alone doesn't necessarily help.

Has the government explained how the additional funding will be applied in order to improve how children learn? Unless they intend to choose teachers from those with the higher OPs who have hopefully had a decent education themselves, I'm not sure how money is going to help.

 

[sptrawler]

They are saying the Government is going to give $4000/student, the figures don't seem to add up.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...e-for-school-funding-plan-20130414-2ht9p.html

They say W.A and NT will get $300m, while Tasmania gets $400m and SA $600m.

I would have thought WA would have as many, if not more students, than SA,Tassie and the NT.

 

[noco]

They are saying the Government is going to give $4000/student, the figures don't seem to add up.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...e-for-school-funding-plan-20130414-2ht9p.html

They say W.A and NT will get $300m, while Tasmania gets $400m and SA $600m.

I would have thought WA would have as many, if not more students, than SA,Tassie and the NT.

Christopher Pyne on Meet The Press this morning described it as the Labor Party's CON ski report.

A CON job on the Liberal Party States who will be expected to pay more than the ineffiicient Labor States .

 

[sptrawler]

Christopher Pyne on Meet The Press this morning described it as the Labor Party's CON ski report.

A CON job on the Liberal Party States who will be expected to pay more than the ineffiicient Labor States .

So that's it, devisive Julia would like to lead Australia in a fair and equitable way.
But she just can't seem to overcome her nasty streak.

 

[chops_a_must]

This is just so typical of Gillard.

Great policy idea. Completely **** up the follow through, implementation and alienate their own supporter base while they're at it.

 

[dutchie]

Has the government explained how the additional funding will be applied in order to improve how children learn? Unless they intend to choose teachers from those with the higher OPs who have hopefully had a decent education themselves, I'm not sure how money is going to help.

Apparently the states decide how the money will be spent.

 

[sptrawler]

This is just so typical of Gillard.

Great policy idea. Completely **** up the follow through, implementation and alienate their own supporter base while they're at it.

What a joke, even Gonski thinks they're dumb.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...tertiary-funding/story-fncyva0b-1226620288084

This just gets better and better, at least with a long election campaign, the goons should give us a few laughs.

 

[chops_a_must]

What a joke, even Gonski thinks they're dumb.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...tertiary-funding/story-fncyva0b-1226620288084

This just gets better and better, at least with a long election campaign, the goons should give us a few laughs.

It is utterly idiotic.

I'll have some research out later this year, that shows teacher training is one of the most demographically troubled sectors.

Most are 55+, older than in the school system, and get paid anywhere from 50% 80% of what they would get if they moved back into the school system.

It's simply one of the biggest hindrances to getting better teachers trained and prepared for the classroom.

Cutting once again, is not going to help one little bit.

 

[Country Lad]

Earlier on in this thread (post #11) I gave the links where significant improvements were made by 3 schools by changing the way they were managed in a more autonomous way with good teachers being appointed at appropriate salary levels as happens in those countries outperforming us in education.

I am of the opinion that the reluctance of the Fed Government to head in this (proven here and overseas) direction is that they don't want an argument with the Teachers Unions. The unions are vehemently opposed to teachers being paid according to performance or being paid performance bonuses regardless of the fact that this occurs in any industry you can think of.

Queensland in particular now has a problem because they have looked at the success factors around Australia and other countries and has put in plans where high performing teachers are to be paid accordingly, teachers willing to undergo greater training and/or attain further uni qualifications would be compensated to do so. The teachers in that State were to be paid according to performance criteria and the unions are screaming loud and long. It appears the Teachers Union considers that mediocrity should be rewarded the same as high performance.

Now Qld is being asked to participate in a scheme where results are unproven and at the cost of uni education which will no doubt also affect the upskilling of teachers. On top of that because WA has been ahead of the game in school performance, they get very little money to undertake further improvements towards world class standards. Go figure.

Cheers
Country Lad