The future of energy generation and storage

[Value Collector]

No reason you can't use regenerative braking on a ICE or hybrid vehicle to wind up a spring or spin a flywheel or even charge a battery for a power reserve.

A hybrid is obvious better than a pure ice car, because it is part ev, it's the part of it that is ev that makes it better.

But a hybrid is still locked into 1 fuel source e.g. Refined oil, unless it's a plug in hybrid, which again is only better because it's more like an ev.

So yes I agree, the more an Ice car becomes like an ev, the better it is, but pure Evs win out.

 

[Value Collector]

Not buying Tesla but GM? I guess you did take Elon's put down to people who don't like losing money funding his dreams.

I am buying a tesla though.

I didn't choose GM myself, Warren chose it for me.

I trust his judgement that we can make some money there, he has also bought some dying newspapers recently, not because he believes they are a wonderful product, but because he thinks he can got them so cheap he can collect dividends until they die and then strip assets and make decent money.

 

[SirRumpole]

So yes I agree, the more an Ice car becomes like an ev, the better it is, but pure Evs win out.

To each their own, but to me it's just a matter of economics.

The more ev's there are the higher the demand for electricity and therefore the price of electricity will rise and the price of petrol/diesel will fall so a vehicle that can play off petrol/diesel price against electricity price has more flexibility in reducing the running costs of the vehicle and getting a better deal as a consumer.

But I admire you for taking a punt on the ev. In 20 years they may be dominant but I doubt if I will still be around to see it.

 

[Value Collector]

To each their own, but to me it's just a matter of economics.

The more ev's there are the higher the demand for electricity and therefore the price of electricity will rise and the price of petrol/diesel will fall so a vehicle that can play off petrol/diesel price against electricity price has more flexibility in reducing the running costs of the vehicle and getting a better deal as a consumer.

But I admire you for taking a punt on the ev. In 20 years they may be dominant but I doubt if I will still be around to see it.

Oil / petrel has a long way to fall before it becomes competitive with other energy sources, hence why no one is building oil power plants anymore.

But even if Evs did cause the oil price to drop, it would still be more economical to burn it in an efficient power plant than in a ice car.

Hell, if petrel really got cheap I could just buy an efficient little petrel generator and charge my car using that, and then leave it at home, with a hybrid you are forced to carry your fuel tank and generator around with you all the time, even when you just want to run it in ev mode.

By the end of next year you will probably start to see a lot of model 3 tesla a around.

 

[SirRumpole]

Hell, if petrel really got cheap I could just buy an efficient little petrel generator and charge my car using that, and then leave it at home, with a hybrid you are forced to carry your fuel tank and generator around with you all the time, even when you just want to run it in ev mode.

Well lets face it, it's going to be a long time before there are sufficient charging stations around to conquer 'range fear', especially for people like me in regional areas. OK for those in suburbia perhaps.

You make your choice, but it's not for me at the moment.

 

[Value Collector]

Well lets face it, it's going to be a long time before there are sufficient charging stations around to conquer 'range fear', especially for people like me in regional areas. OK for those in suburbia perhaps.

You make your choice, but it's not for me at the moment.

I think you are over estimating how much people will rely on charging away from home, while also underestimating the speed Tesla is building their super charger network.

Tesla is already building out the super charger network in preparation for the model three, you can drive Brisbane to Melbourne no worries already.

You already drive pretty much anywhere across the USA and Europe using the super charger network.



Brisbane to Melbourne - no worries.

 

[SirRumpole]

You can hire a Tesla now, so why not hire one for a month, drive Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane and see if it lives up to expectations ?

https://www.eveeh.com.au/

 

[Value Collector]

You can hire a Tesla now, so why not hire one for a month, drive Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane and see if it lives up to expectations ?

https://www.eveeh.com.au/

The Model I am getting isn't available yet, the first one only came off the production line on Friday.

But there are plenty of videos and reviews online of people doing long road trips using the super charger network.

But for me, I drive Sydney to Brisbane probably twice a year, and the super chargers are placed pretty close to my usual stops, I would have to charge 3 times for 20mins each time and thats about my usual drive rest cycle.

But for the 99% of the rest of the year, starting each day with 400km's of charge is more than enough.

------------------

Old mate here drove from England to Italy in a Tesla.

 

[qldfrog]

But for the 99% of the rest of the year, starting each day with 400km's of charge is more than enough.

I agree with that.More a psychological issue than a real one when your range is >400km

 

[brty]

Every major manufacturer is now throwing billions at EV R&D with many models planned for the near future. VW the world's largest car manufacturer, is planning for a quarter of their fleet to be EVs by 2025.
Yes it has been a slow start over the last 2 decades, but the next decade will reach the tipping point of wide EV adoption.
For governments of oil importing countries (most), it is a godsend for economic reasons, especially if they can produce their own electricity.

 

[SirRumpole]

For governments of oil importing countries (most), it is a godsend for economic reasons, especially if they can produce their own electricity.

Is it really ?

Do you realise how much money governments rip off motorists in fuel excises ?

How are they going to replace that ?

It seems pretty obvious that governments will have to impose some sort of tax on electric vehicles to raise the cost of a charge equal to the same as a tank of petrol, otherwise they will lose billions in revenue. So where has the price advantage of ev's gone ?

 

[Value Collector]

Is it really ?

Do you realise how much money governments rip off motorists in fuel excises ?

How are they going to replace that ?

It seems pretty obvious that governments will have to impose some sort of tax on electric vehicles to raise the cost of a charge equal to the same as a tank of petrol, otherwise they will lose billions in revenue. So where has the price advantage of ev's gone ?

I agree some sort of tax will have to be applied eventually, but it won't have to raise the charge price to the cost of a tank of petrel, it will just have to cover the cost of the 30cent per liter tax.

Evs will still be cheaper to run, coal is about $100 per tonne, unleaded fuel is about $1500 per tonne.

As I said, there is a reason oil power plants don't exist.

Also with the adoption of solar, charging an ev is a good use of the excess power, rather than selling it back to the grid at 6cents a kilowatt.

The grid only pays you roughly $4 for the amount of power it takes to charge an ev, so it's much better to use it to fuel your car than to send it back to the grid.

So what a solar user gets paid $4 for today, can offset a $80 petrel expense, that's lots of room to pay the $15 tax a tank of fuel generates and you are still no where near the cost of a tank of petrel.

 

[Tisme]

I don't watch Sunrise or whatever the other morning show is because I think the level of discussion is an insult to thinking people, but this popped up on my facebook:

https://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/vid...rnment-urged-to-act-over-energy-crisis/#page1

 

[Tisme]

Still gunner do, but still Labor's fault ...always Labor's fault, gunner, gunner, gunner.

Perhaps selling our taxpayer built generation to money making enterprise might a small reason for the situation

https://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/vid...ralians-will-die-as-energy-prices-soar/#page1

 

[Tisme]

ON the otherhand I seem to recall that due to Paul Keating's intrusion into state govt power regulation, the cost of power was the cheapest in the world by 2000.

Then renewable energy became the generation darling and things have headed south for us ever since.

 

[SirRumpole]

Then renewable energy became the generation darling and things have headed south for us ever since.

Privatisation is the reason things are 'heading south'. Governments thought that energy supply was no longer their problem and dropped the ball.

 

[SirRumpole]

Alinta Energy drafting plans for 300MW power plant north of Adelaide

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-14/alinta-energy-seeking-permit-for-300mw-power-plant/8709748

 

[sptrawler]

Privatisation is the reason things are 'heading south'. Governments thought that energy supply was no longer their problem and dropped the ball.

I think you will find the Federal Governments, over the past couple of decades, penalised State Governments which didn't pursue privatisation.
I'm only going from memory, but I can recall, funds being withheld from States that didn't pursue competition through privatisation.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think you will find the Federal Governments, over the past couple of decades, penalised State Governments which didn't pursue privatisation.
I'm only going from memory, but I can recall, funds being withheld from States that didn't pursue competition through privatisation.

Quite right, I've mentioned this before. "Asset recycling" it was called.

I think it started in the Costello days.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think you will find the Federal Governments, over the past couple of decades, penalised State Governments which didn't pursue privatisation.

I'm very sure there has been massive pressure applied.

Here in Tas the Liberals tried going down that track in 1998 and there have been various rumblings on and off since that time.

It wasn't until the mainstream media started referring to Liberal as a "minor party" and with big business and unions both on the same page backing Labor that they realised they'd better bury that idea. 16 years in opposition, at one point being close to total irrelevance, no doubt gave them time for a bit of contemplation.

We've got a Liberal government here now though and there has been some very well publicised "interference" in the power industry which didn't end well. The truth has not been made public, the Treasurer is using every legal trick in the book to try to avoid that, but I think most will have read between the lines and worked it out by now.