The future of energy generation and storage

[SirRumpole]

Power price wars are charging up, and guess who pays? That's right, consumers.

Electricity industry at war with itself as retailers unload on 'perverse, impossible' tariffs

A simmering row between electricity retailers and poles-and-wires companies boils over amid claims consumers are being hurt by "perverse" complex prices.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

On other measures it's considerably less impressive and has some very definite downsides with fuel poverty, the loss of industry and general poverty.

That is an issue most Western countries are facing.

 

[Smurf1976]

That is an issue most Western countries are facing.

A consequence of having adopted the same policies.

Australia's NEM is directly based on the UK market design for example so no surprises it has produced very similar outcomes in terms of price.

Likewise much the same broader economic policies hence very similar outcomes.

 

[qldfrog]

A consequence of having adopted the same policies.

Australia's NEM is directly based on the UK market design for example so no surprises it has produced very similar outcomes in terms of price.

Likewise much the same broader economic policies hence very similar outcomes.

Well EUand UK had to buy overpriced US gas after blowing the Russian pipelines so the fact their power price is not outrageously higher than ours is quite a pathetic saying about Australian management ...

 

[IFocus]

Special report: Five ways the gas cartel is wrecking every Australian​

The gas cartel political entity—for that is what it is—is so central to economic well-being that its distortions are ruining the country in real time.

This destruction takes five forms.

1. Stagflation wrecking living standards.
2. Derailed energy transition wrecking economy and planet.
3. Corruption of Canberra politicians wrecking governance.
4. Tools of macro-management wrecked.
5. Foreign affairs wrecked.

Put simply, the gas cartel is an internal and external threat to Australia as a viable state.

Special report: Five ways the gas cartel is wrecking every Australian

Over the twelve years we’ve run this site, there have been many bad policy decisions, many stupid ideas, and an overwhelming number of greedy little men exploiting the nation. At various times, this has seemed threatening to the future of the country, even if it survived. However, nothing can...

www.macrobusiness.com.au

 

[Smurf1976]

This destruction takes five forms.

An even bigger one is the hobbling of any trade exposed industry.

How on earth is Australian business, especially manufacturing, supposed to compete internationally when they're paying ~triple the US price for gas? Plus high wages, lower productivity and seriously expensive electricity on top.

Plenty of US states where the delivered price of electricity to industry is below the wholesale price in Australia. A situation that's even more shocking when it's considered that 30 years ago Australia easily beat the US on energy costs.

In simple terms we had a key national strength and threw it away completely. Australia was an actual leader with coal and hydro and we had unremarkable but adequate reserves of gas. We were also a leader in solar, albeit of less commercial significance at the time.

So what did we do?

First we put every undeveloped hydro site worth bothering with across 4 states into a conservation reserve of some form. Then we restructured the industry and hobbled the efficient operation of coal plant. Then we exported the gas. In the midst of all that we also abandoned solar manufacturing, indeed we abandoned manufacturing in general.

We also opted out of nuclear which, while it wouldn't have provided economical electricity, would've had value as a single reactor for the scientific and technical competency and so on, keeping options open should it be needed for larger scale use at a future time.

It'd be quite amusing if it weren't so serious.

Meanwhile, in another sign the end for coal is nigh in Australia, AGL has commenced two shifting one unit at Bayswater (NSW). In layman's terms for those unfamiliar, that means intentionally taking it offline completely and putting it back on within a few hours. Eg operating only to cover the morning and evening peak periods, or operating only outside peak solar production times. Eg off at 10am, back on at 3pm, etc. As distinct from simply turning it down but remaining on as such.

Generally speaking, once that starts it's a pretty clear indication the game's about up. Find any coal plant that's moved to that sort of operation and it tends to end up closed completely within a few years.

 

[qldfrog]

An even bigger one is the hobbling of any trade exposed industry.

How on earth is Australian business, especially manufacturing, supposed to compete internationally when they're paying ~triple the US price for gas? Plus high wages, lower productivity and seriously expensive electricity on top.

Plenty of US states where the delivered price of electricity to industry is below the wholesale price in Australia. A situation that's even more shocking when it's considered that 30 years ago Australia easily beat the US on energy costs.

Meanwhile, in another sign the end for coal is nigh in Australia, AGL has commenced two shifting one unit at Bayswater (NSW). In layman's terms for those unfamiliar, that means intentionally taking it offline completely and putting it back on within a few hours. Eg operating only to cover the morning and evening peak periods, or operating only outside peak solar production times. Eg off at 10am, back on at 3pm, etc. As distinct from simply turning it down but remaining on as such.

Generally speaking, once that starts it's a pretty clear indication the game's about up. Find any coal plant that's moved to that sort of operation and it tends to end up closed completely within a few years.

Tell me if i am wrong but that us a sure quick way to destroy the infrastructure as coal burning plants are supposed to run 24/7 and not get thru thermal stress etc.
I believe the operators have given up and just making as much $ out of the asset the assets.nexg breakdown, they close ir ask taxpayers to fully pay repair.
I understand their positions.when you are with a fuxxwit boss, here the government, you try to reason then acceptance and let them die in their own shxt.
Make sure you have a generator..

 

[Smurf1976]

 

[qldfrog]

Tell me if i am wrong but that us a sure quick way to destroy the infrastructure as coal burning plants are supposed to run 24/7 and not get thru thermal stress etc.
I believe the operators have given up and just making as much $ out of the asset the assets.nexg breakdown, they close ir ask taxpayers to fully pay repair.
I understand their positions.when you are with a fuxxwit boss, here the government, you try to reason then acceptance and let them die in their own shxt.
Make sure you have a generator..

quick apologies as I edited the typos but my editions did not seem to have made it..was on phone kb...

 

[SirRumpole]

Multiplied by hundreds of thousands of businesses.

 

[qldfrog]

Multiplied by hundreds of thousands of businesses.

Indeed, none of these slow wits in charge and most of their voters realise the only difference between middle age / roman empire and current society is plentiful cheap energy..not extra brain cells or education but cheap access to energy, the steam engine and then oil to replace and speed man and animan power.
Energy is everything: food, goods, health and lodging..which is why seeing our own suicide is so maddening when we are actually surrounded by cheap energy we have decided to forego in the fanatical pursuit of a cult

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting article, obviously electricity charges over East are rising.

The electricity bill at this South Australian bakery just went up an extra $8,500 a month

Adelaide bakery Vili's is about to renew its electricity contract and the cheapest quote will see them paying an extra $100,000 annually. It's forced the business to pass the rising costs on to their customers to stay afloat.

www.abc.net.au

 

[qldfrog]

And I cry about these generations trying to itch a living under that fraud..
Give up, and when the system collapses, you might have a chance again, in the meantime, run with the tide, do not oppose it .
go on the dole or become GHW consultant for a mine or one of the numerous PS jobs around.good luck

 

[Smurf1976]

Energy is everything

Yep and key bit people miss is the leverage it provides.

We're at a point where practically work, however broadly we define it, uses energy inputs to leverage human capability.

That 100,000 people can watch the same live performance and clearly hear it, that we can travel between cities in an hour or two, that only a tiny portion of the population is needed to work in agriculture through even to how we build houses these days, it all involves machines doing the work. All the humans do is operate and maintain the machines and make sure they're pointed in the right direction.

All of that depends on energy which, at the point of consumption, is predominantly oil, gas and electricity.

There's considerable ability to switch between fuels, and where practical I'll argue that electrification makes massive sense, but ultimately we need a working system. Take the energy out and society falls apart real fast.

That was of course understood very well in the past. That's why so much effort was put into securing reliable and cheap energy.

 

[qldfrog]

A special for Monsieur @sptrawler
Come and join the party

WA gas shortage ‘just a few years behind east coast’

WA’s gas supply is just a few years behind the crisis facing Australia’s east coast market, a top energy analyst has warned.

thewest.com.au

 

[qldfrog]

Read the details of the bastardy new FIT plans
Off peak FIT 2c
Peak time 8c !!!
so when you will pay a fortune at peak time, they will force battery and ev owners to feed back at 8c
Ohh what a feeling to be off grid

EnergyAustralia Takes Its Scissors To Solar Feed-In Tariff Rates

EnergyAustralia has snipped its solar feed-in tariff rates across the board - and they've had quite a haircut.

www.solarquotes.com.au

 

[sptrawler]

A special for Monsieur @sptrawler
Come and join the party

WA gas shortage ‘just a few years behind east coast’

WA’s gas supply is just a few years behind the crisis facing Australia’s east coast market, a top energy analyst has warned.

thewest.com.au

Well it is getting more and more interesting in W.A, monsieur frog.

Battery hopeful licks its wounds after missing out on capacity credits as grid shortfall erased | RenewEconomy

reneweconomy-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[sptrawler]

Another nail in the hydrogen super power coffin?
Reality again catching up with ideology, it is starting to happen a lot.

Hopes for green hydrogen fading as energy giant Origin walks away from flagship project

A project held up as a flagship for Australia's fledgling green hydrogen industry loses its biggest backer as Origin Energy abandons plans for the fuel.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

Apparently the penny is dropping, all over the place, we mentioned this could be a problem some time ago.

EVs, process heat and hydrogen: Growing demand needs a targeted policy response | RenewEconomy

reneweconomy-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

The demand forecasts in the Integrated System Plan’s Step Change scenario will not be achieved without more targeted policy, particularly in regard to industry electrification and specifically electrification of process heat.
A large, even dominant area of business electrification would be replacing gas with electricity in process heat. For this to be economic either the gas price has to be much more than it is right now, or electricity has to be cheap. A price of $50 MWh electricity = $13.9/GJ gas (divide by 3.6).

Like other areas, business won’t commit just because the electricity price is low today, they want confidence that prices will be low for long enough to get a return on capital.

 

[qldfrog]

Apparently the penny is dropping, all over the place, we mentioned this could be a problem some time ago.

EVs, process heat and hydrogen: Growing demand needs a targeted policy response | RenewEconomy

reneweconomy-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

The demand forecasts in the Integrated System Plan’s Step Change scenario will not be achieved without more targeted policy, particularly in regard to industry electrification and specifically electrification of process heat.
A large, even dominant area of business electrification would be replacing gas with electricity in process heat. For this to be economic either the gas price has to be much more than it is right now, or electricity has to be cheap. A price of $50 MWh electricity = $13.9/GJ gas (divide by 3.6).

Like other areas, business won’t commit just because the electricity price is low today, they want confidence that prices will be low for long enough to get a return on capital.

While absolutely certain based on science that the c02 chase is absurd and that solar wind switch is not even reducing co2 overall, going renewable would be a great move if it was economic if only due to the finite amount of oil, and drama in supply chain.
I live in a fully off grid battery solar setup because it makes sense economically vs having Energex bringing power to my rural block.
Plenty of such cases even if the overpriced energex setup cost could be debated as well.
When we changed to our Chinese MG as second car, not going EV was a pure economic decision: we had plenty of fully free electricity, range was not an issue.
Both above choices were fully a domestic and Qld affair: looking at local taxes,costs and situation.
If you compete internationally as a business, then you need to add comparison to the rest of the world.
Well, it is clear that the renewable path is not competitive in Australia,where it should be with plenty of open space and sun.
And guess what,facts tend to always win however long you push the narrative as the Renew mob push it.
Note
Hydro happens to be renewable and is one of the best source of energy but has long been used and can hardly be extended, and not really available for us in Australia with the constraints we put on ourselves.. again..
We spend should i say waste hundreds of billions on NDIS,subs, F35, Aboriginal pits but setting up an hydro scheme in Northern Australia with centuries of benefits is too hard, so we spend more billions to buy Chinese panels and Indian giant fans to ensure we destroy our economy....arggggg
But China, India are thanking us..
Now, most of the H2 is moving to blue H2 ..cracking fossil fuels ..as a transition