The future of energy generation and storage

[Dona Ferentes]

Executive director at the National Center for Energy Analytics, Mark Mills says the AI revolution is on track to add more net new energy demand per year than either manufacturing or the American car industry.

He says $US1 billion worth of new cars needs about $US200 million of energy purchases over the life of those cars. Compare that with semiconductor manufacturing, where every $US1 billion spent on new computer chip plants leads to $US300 million in energy purchases over a decade.

And that is just for semiconductor chip manufacturing. It does not include demand for energy from the data centres that house chips. Or the energy for the cloud powering the AI boom.

 

[sptrawler]

The fortunate thing for Australia is, there is very little likelehood of artificicial intelligence load demand increasing, as the growth in normal intelligence appears to be decreasing. Lol

 

[investor13]

The fortunate thing for Australia is, there is very little likelehood of artificicial intelligence load demand increasing, as the growth in normal intelligence appears to be decreasing. Lol

Ironic how leftism gains in popularity society before more sheep like, although they think of then self as the intelligent and morally superior as society falls apart

 

[SirRumpole]

Good luck with this.

Students at UNSW are designing and building their own fusion reactor.

So if Kensington suddenly disappears in a fireball we will know who's to blame..

Australian uni students pursue the holy grail of energy generation — a fusion reactor

A group of intrepid UNSW students are hard at work on a project that could solve the world's energy problems, but, as a joke among scientists goes, the technology always seems to be 30 years away.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

This might be all hype and hot air, but will be worth keeping an eye on IMO. One thing with the Chinese money isn't a problem, so if anyone can make an SMR, they can

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-starts-up-worlds-first-fourth-generation-nuclear-reactor-2023-12-06/

Outer dome installed on Chinese small modular nuclear reactor

The outer containment dome has been successfully hoisted into place at the ACP100 small modular reactor demonstration project at the Changjiang site on China's island province of Hainan, China National Nuclear Corporation has announced.;

world-nuclear-news.org

 

[investor13]

Good luck with this.

Students at UNSW are designing and building their own fusion reactor.

So if Kensington suddenly disappears in a fireball we will know who's to blame..

Australian uni students pursue the holy grail of energy generation — a fusion reactor

A group of intrepid UNSW students are hard at work on a project that could solve the world's energy problems, but, as a joke among scientists goes, the technology always seems to be 30 years away.

www.abc.net.au

they will put more effort inm to designing where to put the rainbow and there own pronouns over the 30 year period. when then the funding is pulled or university is shut down they will cry racism and homophobia

 

[SirRumpole]

The politics of pumped hydro in Queensland.

State government not 'fair dinkum' over handling of Queensland pumped hydro projects, LNP claims

But Queensland's opposition faces growing pressure to explain its own policies so voters can decide at October's state election.

www.abc.net.au

More politics of renewables on Four Corners tonight.

 

[sptrawler]

The politics of pumped hydro in Queensland.

State government not 'fair dinkum' over handling of Queensland pumped hydro projects, LNP claims

But Queensland's opposition faces growing pressure to explain its own policies so voters can decide at October's state election.

www.abc.net.au

More politics of renewables on Four Corners tonight.

@smurfs post a while back highlighted the enomity of the issue, the problem is those who are shouting for renewables the loudest, obviously have the least understanding of it.
Another year is rolling by and still no major firming/ long duration storage capacity announcements, it certainly sounds like the whole programe is running on a wish and a prayer, it will end up another NBN fiasco IMO.
The privates will be just sitting back smiling, waiting for the Governmet to hit the panic button, then they will roll up their sleeves and clean out the treasury, situation normal.

 

[sptrawler]

They haven't retired yet, unlike Costello who somehow got himself a lifetime job on the Future Fund. #8,267

God don't you hate Karma, when things come back to bite your political backside.

Will it be a case of the fox, in charge of the hen house, time will tell.

Fund chief has eyes firmly on the future​

Greg Combet said he did not come to the role of chairman of the $223bn Future Fund with any preconceived ideas of what it should do

 

[IFocus]

The politics of pumped hydro in Queensland.

State government not 'fair dinkum' over handling of Queensland pumped hydro projects, LNP claims

But Queensland's opposition faces growing pressure to explain its own policies so voters can decide at October's state election.

www.abc.net.au

More politics of renewables on Four Corners tonight.

The politics from all corners is just toxic the Coalition is running really hard against renewables here in WA I assume same elsewhere and now greenys joining them none of which have any alternative other than nuclear which is nuts, nuclear is now looking at least 20 to 30 years away if we are lucky.

Mean while the lights will go out and or prices will go through the roof.

 

[sptrawler]

The politics from all corners is just toxic the Coalition is running really hard against renewables here in WA I assume same elsewhere and now greenys joining them none of which have any alternative other than nuclear which is nuts, nuclear is now looking at least 20 to 30 years away if we are lucky.

Mean while the lights will go out and or prices will go through the roof.

That's interesting, I haven't heard from the coalition in the media, over here in the West.
Jeez I don't even know who the leader of the W.A coalition is.
Sounds like you are lining up an excuse, for the lights going out.
The Feds have put in a target, they are running a budget surplus, they have to own it.
Even today, they said they are going to nail it, don't worry we are in safe hands. Lol
The big problem IMO is, Labor in the past has made great new initiatives like the NBN, NDIS but never had to actually see it through because they lost office.
It is looking like this time they will get to actually implement the initiative with the target transition, but it is proving much harder to meet a target, than make it.
Interesting times, how Australia comes through the brain fart cloud, will be very interesting IMO.

 

[IFocus]

That's interesting, I haven't heard from the coalition in the media, over here in the West.
Jeez I don't even know who the leader of the W.A coalition is.
Sounds like you are lining up an excuse, for the lights going out.
The Feds have put in a target, they are running a budget surplus, they have to own it.
Even today, they said they are going to nail it, don't worry we are in safe hands. Lol
The big problem IMO is, Labor in the past has made great new initiatives like the NBN, NDIS but never had to actually see it through because they lost office.
It is looking like this time they will get to actually implement the initiative with the target transition, but it is proving much harder to meet a target, than make it.
Interesting times, how Australia comes through the brain fart cloud, will be very interesting IMO.

Its not state Liberals it the Federal Coalition local members playing politics as I have said before better for Labor to lose the next election then Dutton can show us all how nuclear power stations are going to save us I honestly cannot believe its gotten this stupid.

 

[sptrawler]

Its not state Liberals it the Federal Coalition local members playing politics as I have said before better for Labor to lose the next election then Dutton can show us all how nuclear power stations are going to save us I honestly cannot believe its gotten this stupid.

Jeezus I hope Labor get in, they will get my vote, I just want to see the transition in action.
It sounds to me, with your background, the penny has finally dropped. Lol
If Labor get back in, we will continue to get the subsidies for another term, yipee.

 

[investor13]

Jeezus I hope Labor get in, they will get my vote, I just want to see the transition in action.
It sounds to me, with your background, the penny has finally dropped. Lol
If Labor get back in, we will continue to get the subsidies for another term, yipee.

unless your from overseas or have all your finances and income set up from overseas and pay little to no taxes aside from GST in Aust its extremely frustrating to see the the the ring leaders of the circus constantly struggle and then believe they are doing a good job. they surely cant be that stupid, then take in to account the people who vote for these people.

 

[Smurf1976]

The politics from all corners is just toxic the Coalition is running really hard against renewables here in WA I assume same elsewhere and now greenys joining them none of which have any alternative other than nuclear which is nuts, nuclear is now looking at least 20 to 30 years away if we are lucky.

Mean while the lights will go out and or prices will go through the roof.

Politically I'll point the finger at all of them and I say that seriously.

People get worked up about the Coalition or the Greens or Labor or whoever but in reality they're all hugely problematic on this issue. They all play politics rather than sticking to science.

All that's really being achieved is to impoverish the masses. Adding electricity to the list of things that becomes unaffordable for most whilst killing of real productive business.

 

[SirRumpole]

Jeezus I hope Labor get in, they will get my vote, I just want to see the transition in action.
It sounds to me, with your background, the penny has finally dropped. Lol
If Labor get back in, we will continue to get the subsidies for another term, yipee.

Can you image what will happen if the LNP get back in ?

They spent 9 years doing nothing , now they want us to wait another 10 years (minimum) for nuclear reactors, and what are they going to do until then?

If they can investment in renewables like the farmers want, the coal stations are going to get older and older trying to keep up with demand util they break and when that happens with insufficient input from renewables, the lights will go out for sure.

I don't think Labor is moving fast enough, but the LNP won't be moving at all, their nuclear plan will be a disaster.

 

[sptrawler]

Can you image what will happen if the LNP get back in ?

They spent 9 years doing nothing , now they want us to wait another 10 years (minimum) for nuclear reactors, and what are they going to do until then?

If they can investment in renewables like the farmers want, the coal stations are going to get older and older trying to keep up with demand util they break and when that happens with insufficient input from renewables, the lights will go out for sure.

I don't think Labor is moving fast enough, but the LNP won't be moving at all, their nuclear plan will be a disaster.

You nailed it.
Neither have a cohesive plan IMO, nuclear will take way too long to get up and running, just clearing an existing site and preparing the ground work would take years, with renewables the ground work is light as it isn't weight bearing so much faster.
The problem with renewables, is the actual physical amount needed is mind boggling and the time frames for procurement and red tape is huge, therefore they also will take a long time.
So at the moment the only way I can see it moving ahead is, a realisation by both parties that we have a problem and it needs some realistic short term options put into play very quickly.
Meanwhile the finger pointing and tongue poking at each other goes on and the existing coal gets hammered to a certain death, IMO at this point in time fast tracking some GT's is the only option but that will also take time.
It all boils back to time and as you say, not much is happening.

 

[SirRumpole]

On nuclear energy.

"
You decide what these numbers mean. For Dr Finkel, however, it boils down to this – we should be open to the technology, but it’s not going to help us in the next 20 years.

“As I said, from an engineering point of view nuclear power is an excellent form of energy,” Dr Finkel said.

“What we can’t do is say, ‘Oh, nuclear is easy, therefore let’s stop all the wind and jump on to nuclear.’

“It just can’t possibly happen in the time-frame that we need. But that doesn’t mean we should rule it out because there’s that long term benefit.” "

Would a nuclear power plant fit Australia's needs? These numbers cut through the debate

As the shift away from fossil fuels gathers pace, the Coalition has turned to an emissions-free technology with a long and contentious history — nuclear fission. These are the numbers you should keep in mind when thinking about its place in Australia's energy transition.

www.abc.net.au

 

[IFocus]

On nuclear energy.

"
You decide what these numbers mean. For Dr Finkel, however, it boils down to this – we should be open to the technology, but it’s not going to help us in the next 20 years.

“As I said, from an engineering point of view nuclear power is an excellent form of energy,” Dr Finkel said.

“What we can’t do is say, ‘Oh, nuclear is easy, therefore let’s stop all the wind and jump on to nuclear.’

“It just can’t possibly happen in the time-frame that we need. But that doesn’t mean we should rule it out because there’s that long term benefit.” "

Would a nuclear power plant fit Australia's needs? These numbers cut through the debate

As the shift away from fossil fuels gathers pace, the Coalition has turned to an emissions-free technology with a long and contentious history — nuclear fission. These are the numbers you should keep in mind when thinking about its place in Australia's energy transition.

www.abc.net.au

Didn't see anything about size (current stations being built range from 1 to 3gw )using the current tech, but realistically using the current tech nuclear power size wise is only good for your minimum base load (1 to 3gw is too big?) however even if it did fit its leaving a massive hole to be filled during peak demand with something else. (Smurf correct me if wrong)

My assumption is if they can get smaller SMR's that are either variable or can be shutdown, started up easily then all good but that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Smurf1976]

Didn't see anything about size (current stations being built range from 1 to 3gw )using the current tech, but realistically using the current tech nuclear power size wise is only good for your minimum base load (1 to 3gw is too big?) however even if it did fit its leaving a massive hole to be filled during peak demand with something else. (Smurf correct me if wrong)

The big problem is that no matter what the technology, at some point there's going to be a failure and the machine's going to trip offline.

That limits the practical size of individual generating units so as to not bring down the entire system when one fails. That is of course calculated but as a rule of thumb, the upper limit will be close to 10% of peak demand.

So for Qld and Vic the limit would be just on 1GW for an individual machine and for NSW about 1.5GW. For all other states very much less.

Tasmania does have a complex workaround that enables Basslink, a single point of failure, to at times supply a large portion of total load but that's not something that's easily replicated, it works only because there's enough heavy industry that can be tripped with minimal consequence.

No chance 1GW units are being installed anywhere in Australia outside the big 3 eastern states unless someone's crazy. SA and Tas just don't have enough interconnection outside the region, and other systems including WA just aren't large enough to do it.