Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The future of energy generation and storage

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sptrawler said:
Or the companies are being shonky.
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Yep and then there is the below my favorite bug bear

"Read that again if you have to – most gas is royalty-free.

Iron ore mines pay royalties. Gold mines pay royalties. The vast majority of WA’s gas is extracted and exported without paying any royalties.

Worse, gas companies often pay little, if any, company tax or petroleum resource rent tax. The federal government collects more revenue from university HECS payments than from the PRRT."
 
SirRumpole said:
But it comes back to the politicians for letting them get away with it.

I wonder if there are any pollies in the pocket of the gas companies?
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Only the pollies that have any clout, a lot just fill a seat untill they loose it.
I would have thought the gas companies would pay a lot of tax, but as usual it is difficult to get big companies to pay any, they have whole dept's working on how to shift costs and money around.
They know much gas, iron ore, bauxite etc is sold by the shipping data, a tax by volume should be applied it is the only thing they can't fudge.
 
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SirRumpole said:
Amazing.

A while ago we were talking about WA's gas reservation policy and how there was no shortage of gas in the West.

Someone has dropped the ball apparently.
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Go back a few pages - I posted about this one a while ago with figures. ;)

Trouble is WA like other states has gone down the track of failing to grasp that mineral resources are finite.

The figures haven't changed so far as I'm aware apart from a modest demand reduction due to the closure of the Alcoa plant at Kwinana. Other than that, whatever I posted previously is still the case - there's a significant supply shortfall looming.

Incidentally Saudi Arabia does import oil. They import heavy fuel oil for power generation at a price lower than the crude from which it came. So long as someone else is willing to sell it to them cheap, they're not going to knock back that offer. :2twocents
 
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sptrawler said:
Only the pollies that have any clout, a lot just fill a seat untill they loose it.
I would have thought the gas companies would pay a lot of tax, but as usual it is difficult to get big companies to pay any, they have whole dept's working on how to shift costs and money around.
They know much gas, iron ore, bauxite etc is sold by the shipping data, a tax by volume should be applied it is the only thing they can't fudge.
Click to expand...
And for ore mining, a tax per cubic metre of earth moved from initial state otherwise, we favor the rape of our resources instead of efficiency.
 
SirRumpole said:
Offshore wind farms in Gippsland a step closer?

  • In short: Six offshore wind projects vying to secure a place in Australia's first offshore wind zone have been granted feasibility licences.
  • The federal government's declared offshore wind zone is located in waters off Gippsland in Victoria's east.
  • What's next? Companies behind the proposals now have an opportunity to undertake detailed assessments before submitting final plans.

www.abc.net.au

Australia one step closer to generating electricity from offshore wind farms as projects receive feasibility licences

Federal Minister for Climate Change and Energy Chris Bowen officially unveils the first proponents to receive offshore wind farm feasibility licences.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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What is great with these is that they silently slice the sea birds and migratory birds life and feed the fish below ensuring cheaper seafood for all.
At long last, some green power scheme benefiting the community🤣😂
 
qldfrog said:
And for ore mining, a tax per cubic metre of earth moved from initial state otherwise, we favor the rape of our resources instead of efficiency.
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They only get paid for what they ship and they know exactly how many tons are shipped, so putting a tax commensurate with the raw material shipped is easy.

Then the miners or the LNG producers have to claim back their offsets, which if it is anything like a PAYG taxpayer goes, best of luck with that.

The resource companies will then say it isn't worth developing the resource, we say fine because you pay us flck all for it anyway.
 
sptrawler said:
They only get paid for what they ship and they know exactly how many tons are shipped, so putting a tax commensurate with the raw material shipped is easy.

Then the miners or the LNG producers have to claim back their offsets, which if it is anything like a PAYG taxpayer goes, best of luck with that.

The resource companies will then say it isn't worth developing the resource, we say fine because you pay us flck all for it anyway.
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So, if miners pay a tax on volume, they will pay $x per tonne or cubic metre, how do you determine x?

Should it be the same for coal, iron ore , uranium and lithium?

I suggest x should be based on the spot price of the mineral or gas when the resource is exported. Sure companies can hold up shipments until the spot price falls, but then they could be in trouble with their customers for breach of contract if the shipments don't arrive on time.
 
SirRumpole said:
So, if miners pay a tax on volume, they will pay $x per tonne or cubic metre, how do you determine x?

Should it be the same for coal, iron ore , uranium and lithium?
Click to expand...
By benchmarking what the market price as as opposed to recovery costs.

The companies give the recovery costs in their financials, if they BS them then the shareholders spit the chewy, they have trouble raising capital etc, it just becomes a World of pain for them.

They use benchmarks on tradies etc to make sure they aren't rorting, already

Each material would have to be benchmarked on an individual basis, as the recovery cost per ton is completely different, underground vs open cut, near populated areas vs remote, % of contained ore/ton of material etc.

Then the miners claim variance on the tax for extenuating circumstances, as is happening with nickel at the moment.

There is no point in giving the $hit away and if they can't make money out of it and at the same time we don't get any money out of it, well then leave it where it is, let someone else give away their $hit till they can't afford to give it away, IMO we are almost at that point.
Let's be honest Indonesia is doing exactly what we did in the 1960's, when the Govt's demanded blast furnaces and steel mills were built, towns were built FFS, if the companies wanted to mine the ore.

Now after we have closed all that down by removing tariffs to help lift third world countries out of poverty, we look like we are going to change places with them. Lol
Unless you own property in a capital city, then you can just squeeze the juice out of a pleb.😡
The up side is they will get clean air, if we can build a dome over Australia. Lol
Anyway heading up to Sitka, got more to worry about at the moment, staying warm is the first consideration.
 
Is it true Tanya pilbersek gave the go ahead for glencores idea of pumping liquefied carbon dioxide into aquifers?

Are they not worried about the explosive outcomes that may have?
Am I missing something here, because it sounds like Labor are just fully retarded at this point. I had hopes, but they are literally the most stupid pack to date.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Yeah, there's a legal story here hence the cautious wording of my previous post.

It's going to take quite some explaining as to how it went so badly wrong. This wasn't a "normal" breakdown by any means. :2twocents
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From the evil Murdoch press.
Queensland’s Labor government has been accused of trying to cover up the causes of a catastrophic explosion at one of the largest state-owned coal-fired power stations ahead of the October state election.
The government-owned CS Energy has taken Federal Court action to try to block release of documents relating to an investigation by forensic engineer Sean Bradyinto the causes of an explosion that crippled the Callide C power station in May 2021.

Three months after Premier Steven Miles told parliament he looked forward to “making as much of it public as we can”, lawyers for CS Energy argued in court that the report should stay secret because it was commissioned to protect the Queensland government’s legal position.

Liberal National Party energy spokeswoman Deb Frecklington said the government was “hiding behind lawyers’ robes to stop the truth getting out”.

“For more than 1000 days, Labor has done everything possible to cover up what’s happened at the Callide power plant,” she said.
Dr Brady’s full findings may never be made public, after CS Energy and its lawyers, Norton Rose Fulbright, claimed the report’s contents – and correspondence about delays to its delivery – were covered by legal professional privilege and should not be handed over to the private investors in Callide C suing to access its contents.

Energy Minister Mick de Brenni refused to say when he knew CS Energy would be claiming legal privilege, telling The Australian it would be inappropriate to comment on legal proceedings and potentially prejudice the interests of a government-owned corporation.

“The report is not in the possession of government; when the government has Dr Brady’s findings, we will respond to them appropriately.

Transparency.
You can alwys count on it from the governments.
Mick
 
SirRumpole said:
So, if miners pay a tax on volume, they will pay $x per tonne or cubic metre, how do you determine x?

Should it be the same for coal, iron ore , uranium and lithium?

I suggest x should be based on the spot price of the mineral or gas when the resource is exported. Sure companies can hold up shipments until the spot price falls, but then they could be in trouble with their customers for breach of contract if the shipments don't arrive on time.
Click to expand...
Knowing volume of soil moved is possible easily from satellite or drone relief survey, that is the way the miners do already.
Should it be the same for all ore: yes if you matter about ecology, no if about economy..that is where the politicians aka us lol have to chose, plus do you apply same value to primal rainforest, desert dune etc..but the decision is on the owners..us..not a mining plan based on a quarter deadline and in all cases, mining efficiency and no waste would always be a plus..now..efficiency is not really required and we are wasting our country resources.
Link to spot price if you want but what is important is that we optimise recovery of our resources and returns for it to the right owners: australians.it is a wasted argument anyway because we are destroying our resources for hardly any money at full speed and by the time we will wake up it will be too late...
 
moXJO said:
Is it true Tanya pilbersek gave the go ahead for glencores idea of pumping liquefied carbon dioxide into aquifers?

Are they not worried about the explosive outcomes that may have?
Am I missing something here, because it sounds like Labor are just fully retarded at this point. I had hopes, but they are literally the most stupid pack to date.
Click to expand...
The government is allowing CO2 into the artesian basin, so that the CO2 does not go into the atmosphere..everyone knows the CO2 in the atmosphere is leading to acid oceans...
So we save the oceans
And we decided to have acid artesian water instead...
It is one of the most crazy and dangerous idea even suggested in that CO2 scam....
That leads to destruction of agriculture on the west side of the dividing range..no less...
Part of the plan....engineered famine and crisis
While all linked thru this neg zero horror, it is not directly an energy/ grid issue.and so this thread
The trouble is that everything is connected: NetZero, EV, grid, coal, mineral resources, royalties and our economy/China power..hard to split them per thread
 
And if you have any doubt left:
Pigs feeding in the trough, while you pay higher and higher bills..it does explain a lot...doesn't it? Lol
"Annastacia Palaszczuk will join the advocacy group Smart Energy Council (SEC) as an international ambassador in her first role since exiting politics in December."
We often talk about big oil, mining lobby, big pharma..never forget about "big renew"
 

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