The future of energy generation and storage

[SirRumpole]

It was as recently as 2009 that we closed down our solar panel manufacturing, why would there be a complete change in the way we do things? That isn't the way Australia rolls, we buy manufactured goods from overseas and send the raw materials there so they can make the goods, that's our job.
The funny part is, it all happened on Labor's watch, go figure.
Where's the narrative, when you need it? It was still going on about 'work choices' which had already been thrown out, same as it still is today.
It's time people focused on our financial future and our kids living standards, rather than cherry picking issues and actually doing nothing to stem our slide into a 3rd world nation and both sides of politics are responsible.

This article is from 2012, when the Governments were paying feed in tariffs for people to put rooftop solar on their houses.

Silex Systems closes Homebush solar PV manufacturing plant

Silex says the mothballed plant to be permanently closed because it can no longer compete against cheap Chinese imports.

reneweconomy.com.au

Silex Systems has abandoned plans to revive its solar panel manufacturing plant in Sydney’s Olymic Park, and has announced its immediate closure and decommissioning.

Silex bought the then mothballed plant from BP Solar for $6.5 million in 2009, but ceased production of solar cells in August last year as part of a restructuring. It then mothballed the module manufacturing again in November, but after resuming limited production in February, it has now decided to cut its losses after trading conditions failed to improve.

Goldsworthy said SilexSolar will continue to progress some commercial-scale project work already underway, and will also continue to support existing installed product warranties, but he sounded downbeat about the future of that part of the business.
“It’s still a price driven business, it’s pretty difficult to compete,” he told RenewEconomy. He noted the US anti-dumping action against Chinese manufacturers and said the same thing should happen here.

Goldsworthy told RenewEconomy in February that the company was working on numerous opportunities, including a possible bid into the ACT Government’s large scale solar auction. He would not comment on the result of that bid, although it is thought Silex did not make the shortlist of bidders.
Around 100 people may have lost their jobs all told. The August closure resulted in the loss of about 30 manufacturing jobs, while suspension of the panel manufacturing caused another 45 workers to be retrenched. Around 20 people remained employees of SilexSolar


In 2009, the ACT Government established a scheme for payments to ACT households and businesses generating renewable electricity. This was established under the Electricity Feed-in (Renewable Energy Premium) Act 2008 (the Act). This is referred to as the Small and Medium Feed-in Tariff Scheme.

Well, it's up to the government isn't it ?

If they want manufacturing here then they have to come in with either subsidies or tariffs or both.

No good Albo making grand speeches about local manufacturing and expecting it to come without costs.

 

[sptrawler]

Well, it's up to the government isn't it ?

If they want manufacturing here then they have to come in with either subsidies or tariffs or both.

No good Albo making grand speeches about local manufacturing and expecting it to come without costs.

It's all about the narrative, if they wanted to push that way,the media would be peddling it. Obviously 'the powers that be' don't see that as Australia's future, probably just a mine for the U.S is the future.
It's a bit like the narrative in the U.S pre Biden, tariffs were bad and the U.S was being led by loonies into war, now with Biden the tariffs have increased and the international politics has worsened, yet not a murmur.
We just have to accept, life is smoke and mirrors.

 

[SirRumpole]

It's all about the narrative, if they wanted to push that way,the media would be peddling it. Obviously 'the powers that be' don't see that as Australia's future, probably just a mine for the U.S is the future.
It's a bit like the narrative in the U.S pre Biden, tariffs were bad and the U.S was being led by loonies into war, now with Biden the tariffs have increased and the international politics has worsened, yet not a murmur.
We just have to accept, life is smoke and mirrors.

Well if we are just going to be a mine then we should be bringing in a mining tax so that we get enough revenue to make up for the lack of local manufacturing jobs, otherwise all those minerals profits will just go o/s with the jobs.

 

[sptrawler]

Well if we are just going to be a mine then we should be bringing in a mining tax so that we get enough revenue to make up for the lack of local manufacturing jobs, otherwise all those minerals profits will just go o/s with the jobs.

We have had a royalties system in place for ever, why it can't be tweaked to reflect the current world market price of the commodity, is beyond me.

 

[SirRumpole]

We have had a royalties system in place for ever, why it can't be tweaked to reflect the current world market price of the commodity, is beyond me.

It would be easier just to put an export tax on every shipment as a percentage of the spot price at the time.

If you don't pay the tax, your shipment doesn't leave. Much like the GST, pretty hard to avoid.

 

[sptrawler]

Painting themselves further into a corner and becoming tunnel visioned isn't going to work .

Coalition’s nuclear option would cost $387b: Bowen

The Albanese government is taking the fight to the Coalition over the latter’s campaign to end the moratorium on nuclear energy in Australia.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Sean K]

Punchy Bowen is going to be in trouble once all this gets mapped out.

Really, the writing was on the wall when Bob Brown campaigned against offshore wind farms in Tassie because they 'looked bad'. Who would have thunk? The ones proposed along the east coast have more merit to oppose. Whales, eagles, shipping, etc.

There's a cost-benefit analysis yet to be done with all this. Neither side has made a detailed and coherent argument.

Frustrated Port Stephens residents say their calls for consultation to be restarted over the controversial 5GW Hunter offshore wind zone have been denied and warned that voters in the heartland Labor seats will abandon the Albanese government if the project proceeds.

Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen, who met with a handful of community representatives in a closed-door meeting on Tuesday, received a hostile reception from around 100 protesters holding placards and banners and calling for the offshore wind farms to be axed.

In a meeting with around 12 community members, Mr Bowen was urged to consider a mix of solar and onshore wind farms in place of offshore turbines, which locals say will devastate their coastal economy and marine environment.

 

[macca]

Punchy Bowen is going to be in trouble once all this gets mapped out.

Really, the writing was on the wall when Bob Brown campaigned against offshore wind farms in Tassie because they 'looked bad'. Who would have thunk? The ones proposed along the east coast have more merit to oppose. Whales, eagles, shipping, etc.

There's a cost-benefit analysis yet to be done with all this. Neither side has made a detailed and coherent argument.

View attachment 162653

Frustrated Port Stephens residents say their calls for consultation to be restarted over the controversial 5GW Hunter offshore wind zone have been denied and warned that voters in the heartland Labor seats will abandon the Albanese government if the project proceeds.

Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen, who met with a handful of community representatives in a closed-door meeting on Tuesday, received a hostile reception from around 100 protesters holding placards and banners and calling for the offshore wind farms to be axed.

In a meeting with around 12 community members, Mr Bowen was urged to consider a mix of solar and onshore wind farms in place of offshore turbines, which locals say will devastate their coastal economy and marine environment.

This is right in the middle of an area where coal ships wait at sea for a berth in the Port of Newcastle.

Over the years, there have been two ships go aground because of East Coast Low weather events which intensify in a matter of hours to being very nasty storms.

There have been a hell of a lot more near misses that do not make the general news headlines.

If there is a vast sprawling network of wind turbines protruding from the seabed it is distinctly possible that quite a few could be knocked over by just one, very large, ship being swept along by 120k winds.

It is also a seafood catchment area and a whale main highway, the infrastructure to link all this to the shore will decimate the sea floor and confuse whales so I really see it as very ill conceived with one priority being placed above others that are in fact more deserving

 

[Smurf1976]

Over the years, there have been two ships go aground because of East Coast Low weather events which intensify in a matter of hours to being very nasty storms.

There have been a hell of a lot more near misses that do not make the general news headlines.

It is also a seafood catchment area and a whale main highway

I'm not familiar with the area or issues but someone looking at this from an objective risk management perspective would likely conclude the shipping ought not continue in this manner and poses an unacceptable risk regardless of what is or isn't done with the wind farm.

If the area's full of whales meanwhile they've got a constant stream of ships crossing it, and the ships are in danger of running aground, that seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[macca]

I'm not familiar with the area or issues but someone looking at this from an objective risk management perspective would likely conclude the shipping ought not continue in this manner and poses an unacceptable risk regardless of what is or isn't done with the wind farm.

If the area's full of whales meanwhile they've got a constant stream of ships crossing it, and the ships are in danger of running aground, that seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

The area in question is relatively shallow for the Tasman Sea because it has thousands of years of silt from the Hunter River.

The Hunter Valley is enormous and all the soil that used to be there is now where they anchor the coal boats.

When big swells reach a certain height they interact with the sea floor and become waves, when the Pasha Bulka went aground one wave was 18m high.

On that same day the PB grounded two other ships almost went ashore, one got away by running with the gale reasonably well out to sea, the other went with the gale, skirted the shore and squeezed past the islands off Port Stephens.

These things are 300m long with flat sides, the wind grabs hold of them and pushed them around so they need Lots of space

No harm done to them or anywhere but if we have a picket fence of wind turbines all of a sudden life gets very difficult

 

[SirRumpole]

Painting themselves further into a corner and becoming tunnel visioned isn't going to work .

Coalition’s nuclear option would cost $387b: Bowen

The Albanese government is taking the fight to the Coalition over the latter’s campaign to end the moratorium on nuclear energy in Australia.

www.theage.com.au

Its almost an insoluble situation.

People want clean energy but they don't want to look at windmills or dont want dams flooding catchments or don't want solar panels going into landfill or transmission lines across their property etc.

The so called 'social license' is going to get harder to obtain.

Nuclear is too expensive and the Greenie's will complain forever.

What's the best alternative that will offend the least amount of people ?

Gas turbines running on hydrogen ? Supercritical coal plants with CCS ? Put solar panels on every house?

Nothing will satisfy everyone, but the government hasn't got the guts to tell people that something has to give. If you want cheap clean energy you have to accept wind turbines in your view or some areas of land being flooded.

Just be honest Chris.

 

[macca]

Its almost an insoluble situation.

People want clean energy but they don't want to look at windmills or dont want dams flooding catchments or don't want solar panels going into landfill or transmission lines across their property etc.

The so called 'social license' is going to get harder to obtain.

Nuclear is too expensive and the Greenie's will complain forever.

What's the best alternative that will offend the least amount of people ?

Gas turbines running on hydrogen ? Supercritical coal plants with CCS ? Put solar panels on every house?

Nothing will satisfy everyone, but the government hasn't got the guts to tell people that something has to give. If you want cheap clean energy you have to accept wind turbines in your view or some areas of land being flooded.

Just be honest Chris.

Maybe we could moor a couple of spare nuclear subs somewhere and run a power lead onshore each night.

There does seem a lot of people in the eastern subs and northern suburbs of Sydney that hate coal, perhaps we could moor at the wharf near there and run a power cable up to the local sub stattion

 

[Smurf1976]

Its almost an insoluble situation.

Go back a decade and there was an argument along the lines that regardless of any uncertainties about climate science, we should just act anyway because there's no downside to doing so.

The few who pointed out there is in fact a very real consequence of doing so, because the alternatives also come with an impact, tended to be shot down in flames.

Now here we are and reality's starting to sink in that no matter what energy source is used, all of them have impacts on something somehow. Indeed I'll go a step further and point out that if we exclude CO2 well then brown coal's not perfect but it's pretty damn good. Lots of it, it's low in toxic nasties, no wars or geopolitical drama with it and it's relatively cheap and easy to extract. Added bonus that it's no in big cities such that the fumes are kept out of the way but it's close enough to keep the transmission costs down. Overall as close to perfect as it gets - that's why Sir John Monash and those who followed were so enthusiastic about it, it was the least bad option available at the time. But then someone mentioned CO2.....

My own view is the only thing that'll sort this out is a serious incident that brings society to its senses. Something that forces the politicians and media to accept that they're way out of their depth and we'd all be better off if they went back to their traditional role of gatekeeping (politicians) and reporting (media) whilst leaving competent people to get on with it.

Serious incident as in serious. Doesn't have to involve putting the lights out, although that's an obvious possible scenario, but it could instead just be a very hard landing recession and a general period, years, of doom and gloom. A climate "incident" is another possibility. Something big and of long enough duration that it forces an acceptance that change is required.

As with most things, it'll probably go from one extreme to the other unfortunately. It'll go from the present situation of nothing being done to one where someone's given basically free reign and there's things being built all over the place. That scenario will inevitably produce its own problems.

This basic scenario isn't unprecedented by the way.

It was WW1 that kick started Tasmanian hydro-electricity in a big way, earlier attempts had been made but that brought government into it, and it was the Great Depression which saw that cranked up to the max.

Same goes for brown coal in Victoria - earlier attempts had been made but it took war to see serious action.

It was WW2 that lead to the Snowy scheme being built, indeed the Australian Government used the wartime powers to get it through parliament, and which ultimately gave rise to the power grids being built in NSW, SA and Queensland.

So apart from WA and NT most of it was triggered by wars or economic crises although even in those two, radical change and expansion was triggered by the events of the 1970's.

Much the same internationally. Eg French nuclear didn't get far until the Oil Embargo kicked it into overdrive in the 70's.

 

[SirRumpole]

Serious incident as in serious. Doesn't have to involve putting the lights out, although that's an obvious possible scenario, but it could instead just be a very hard landing recession and a general period, years, of doom and gloom. A climate "incident" is another possibility. Something big and of long enough duration that it forces an acceptance that change is required.

I think that the Ukraine war and consequent inflation and cost increases, together with the pandemic's effect on supply lines, plus the climate emergencies around the world and the manipulation of the oil markets by Russia and Saudi Arabia should be enough of a signal that things must change.

 

[sptrawler]

The W.A Bluewaters power station debacle continues.
The W.A Government is already paying Griffin Coal, to supply fuel to the Japanese owned power station, now the lawyers are getting involved.

Power fight turns nasty as US-controlled plant decries efforts to 'destroy' its rights

A high-stakes fight over the future of a failed Australian coal mine descends into acrimony, as a major power station takes legal action against consultancy Deloitte.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Smurf1976]

I think that the Ukraine war and consequent inflation and cost increases, together with the pandemic's effect on supply lines, plus the climate emergencies around the world and the manipulation of the oil markets by Russia and Saudi Arabia should be enough of a signal that things must change.

In various contexts I've used the analogy of someone in poor health.

First they're just a bit out of breath running up the stairs.

Then they're decidedly unfit.

Then comes the doctor giving them a stern warning.

Now they feel chest pains.

Humans are remarkably good at ignoring the warnings until something drastic happens and I do think energy has a decent chance of being another thing like that. It'll take something drastic to shake the complacency.

 

[Smurf1976]

The W.A Bluewaters power station debacle continues.
The W.A Government is already paying Griffin Coal, to supply fuel to the Japanese owned power station, now the lawyers are getting involved.

Meanwhile in Queensland they're going on strike at Kogan Creek (750MW, coal).

Unions vow to 'grind down' Queensland's newest coal-fired power station with warnings of potential blackouts

Workers at the Kogan Creek power station will take industrial action with warnings it could threaten power supplies ahead of summer.

www.abc.net.au

Industrial action to start on Thursday includes limiting the number of conveyor belts transporting coal from the nearby Kogan Creek coal mine to the power station.

In Victoria there's concern about safety at Yallourn (1480MW, coal)

Dark clouds gather over one of Australia's biggest coal plants as El Niño heats the land

There are growing safety concerns at Yallourn Power Station in Victoria, one of Australia's biggest coal-fired power plants. Experts say that could be bad news heading into a long, hot summer.

www.abc.net.au

A union organiser from the site said anyone standing underneath the hangar when it collapsed "would have been punched through the grid like mincemeat".

And in NSW another factory shuts down with energy not the only cause but part of it:

Hundreds of jobs axed as Molycop stops Newcastle steelmaking operations​

Hundreds of jobs axed as company stops steelmaking operations in Newcastle

Molycop is restructuring its Waratah steelmaking plant, cutting 250 of its 540-strong workforce.

www.abc.net.au

So it's all going just fine.

 

[SirRumpole]

Fascinating story.

"Rooftop solar is eating everyones lunch".

The rise of rooftop solar is putting utility scale projects at risk by depressing prices at times of high solar output.

But we still need peaking power to fill in the gaps.

The only solution I can see is for governments to build and run the peaking plants, whether they be batteries, hydro or gas turbines because commercial operators aren't going to make the investment for thin returns.

Generators pay to stay on as dominant rooftop solar 'cannibalises' electricity prices

The rise of rooftop solar in Australia shows no signs of slowing, bringing cheap, clean power. But the technology is also reshaping the power system in some surprising ways.

www.abc.net.au

 

[basilio]

Excellent story on the ABC at the current state of play with solar power.
Essentially roof top solar is killing everything - including large scale solar farms.
The essential need now is ways to smooth, move and store the excess renewable energy being produced.

Rooftop solar 'cannibalising' power prices as Australian generators pay to stay online​

By energy reporter Daniel Mercer
Posted 33m ago33 minutes ago

Australia is leading the world in the adoption of rooftop solar.(Reuters: Tim Wimborne, file photo)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

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Daytime power prices are plunging into negative territory – meaning generators have to pay to produce – as renewable energy increasingly cannibalises the market, according to experts.

Key points:​

• Wholesale power prices are increasingly turning negative at times of high solar output
• Observers say rooftop solar is "cannibalising" electricity prices and hitting large-scale solar hard
• There are calls for storage and greater daytime demand to help soak up solar production

As the share of green energy in Australia's biggest electricity system momentarily reached a record high of 70 per cent this week, energy software company Gridcog said "price cannibalisation" was becoming an increasingly common phenomenon.

Wholesale power prices in the national electricity market across the eastern states dropped to as low as -$64 per megawatt hour last Saturday, when soaring output from millions of rooftop solar panels flooded into the system.

The phenomenon is particularly pronounced in mild, sunny conditions and especially on weekends, when solar output is at its highest but demand for electricity is relatively low.

In a post to its social media followers, Gridcog said large-scale solar farms were, perversely, being hit hardest by the trend because rooftop solar was generally beyond the control of the market operator.

It noted utility-scale solar plants were having to pare back generation or switch off entirely during such periods to avoid having to pay to maintain production.
"Price cannibalisation is a major emerging feature of the energy transition," the company wrote on LinkedIn.

Generators pay to stay on as dominant rooftop solar 'cannibalises' electricity prices

The rise of rooftop solar in Australia shows no signs of slowing, bringing cheap, clean power. But the technology is also reshaping the power system in some surprising ways.

www.abc.net.au

 

[basilio]

I just saw that one of the critical pioneers of commercialising home solar energy has died.
Peter Pedals was one of the original Nimbin hippies of the early 70's. He moved to Nimbin permanently and created the Rainbow Power Company. A very driven, practical and visionary leader.

The passing of a solar pioneer – Vale Peter Pedals​

September 22, 2023 by Nigel Morris Leave a Comment

Peter Pedals demonstrates pedal-power, Websters Creek, 1993 Image: © Harsha Prabhu
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Three decades ago, I visited Nimbin’s Rainbow Power Company for the first time pondering a change of lifestyle and career. It felt like I had landed in an alternative universe.

I found a ramshackle collective of Aquarius Festival survivors who had built a business out of saving the planet, creating right livelihood and mandating employment equality well before such issues were mainstream.

Hidden behind the bare feet, good vibes and pervasive scent of patchouli, I soon realised I was actually amongst determined, brilliant visionaries who were more than willing to just get on with solving the problem of making renewable energy affordable and accessible. I quit my job making cars and switched to helping to make solar gear.

Recently one of their founders tragically passed away; the inimitable, visionary and wonderfully quirky Peter Pedals. This story is dedicated to Peter, his legacy and his vision.

When the company launched in 1987 there was literally a tiny handful of solar companies selling solar in Australia. The regulations to allow you to connect solar to the grid hadn’t even been created so it was exclusively the domain of homeowners who wanted – or needed – to go off grid.

A single 50W solar panel would set you back around $1500 (plus batteries and control gear) and typically power a few 12V lights and a radio. It was basic, mostly handmade, but it worked.

When I joined Rainbow Power Company (RPC) in 1992 the industry had grown to around 100 companies, costs had come down, the technology was rapidly improving, and Rainbow Power Company had built a huge mud brick solar and wind powered factory on the edge of town at the coolest ever address of 1 Alternative Way.

I was hired because I had been working in the automotive industry, helping to build car parts and servicing equipment. I had done my trade as a Fitter and Turner but grown into roles including metrology, statistical process control and quality management – but was frustrated at “being part of the problem rather than the solution” to climate change.

The passing of a solar pioneer – Vale Peter Pedals - One Step Off The Grid

Peter "Pedals" van der Wik – solar pioneer and founder of Nimbin’s Rainbow Power Company – has died. This story is dedicated to his legacy and his vision.

onestepoffthegrid.com.au

Peter's solar idea now mainstream | Solar News

Almost 39 years since Peter Pedals founded Nimbin-based Rainbow Power Company he reckons society has changed so much that he has become mainstream.

www.rpc.com.au