Wonderful, great, nice and all that but it beggars belief why Governments are paying for what private (or not so private) enterprise should be doing. I am a simpleton but if Governments pay for it, they should own it. Sufficient storage to power one-third of Canberra for two hours.
Big battery project gets a big battery | Canberra CityNews
The ACT government will spend $300 million to $400 million on a large-scale battery storage facility in Williamsdale, south of Canberra, in the next stage of the Big Canberra Battery project.citynews.com.au
I don't claim to be an expert, but one thing in the article caught my eye.A $...fight is evolving among industry 'experts' and AEMO on plans to build new transmission infrastructure in Western Victoria.
Who is right ?
Maybe ASF's experts can make it clearer for us.
Damn, its those bloody models again. You cam make them tell you want you want to hear by determining what parameters go into the model, what loading you put on each one, and what ones you leave it.An AEMO spokesperson said the western Victorian transmission plan would "help share low-cost, diverse electricity from multiple renewable energy zones with consumers across several states".
"Extensive modelling shows that VNI West delivers benefits to consumers in meeting energy reliability and security as ageing coal-fired power stations close," the spokesperson said.
Yep, there are experts and there are "experts"."It has plenty of spare capacity now and can be expanded at a low cost because the easements already exist.
"Why are we not utilising that? AEMO has put various constraints in it's model so that it's not used. It makes no sense at all."
Gippsland lines basically run Latrobe Valley - Melbourne.AS the Electrical Engineering prof suggested when the AEMO rejected using the existing Gippsland Transmission lines.
I'll be extremely cautious in what I say for various reasons but let's just say the inevitable has happened.A $...fight is evolving among industry 'experts' and AEMO on plans to build new transmission infrastructure in Western Victoria.
Who is right ?
Maybe ASF's experts can make it clearer for us.
Thanks Smurf, I have learned more from you about HV power distribution than the time i spent at Uni.I'll be extremely cautious in what I say for various reasons but let's just say the inevitable has happened.
Most political movements tend to split into factions. Labor has its Left and Right factions, the Liberals have their Moderate, Center-Right and Right factions and so on.
It seems that the broad environmental movement, not specifically referring to The Greens but the overall conservation and movement, has finally gone the same way.
One one side are those who'll be protesting something, anything, until the day they die. It's an all or nothing approach which rejects the notion of "better" and seeks perfection at all costs.
On the other side are those who've had enough of that and are seeking ways forward. That is, they consider that actual solutions, even imperfect ones, to the various problems are far better than forever marching down the street waving placards and reliving the only real success that approach had which is 40 years ago now.
Now to the transmission line, from a technical point it addresses the problem of insufficient capacity between NW Victoria and the rest of Victoria, in doing so bringing benefits for SA and NSW as well. Because at present, we have the rather unfortunate situation of forced flow, via a single circuit DC link, from NW Vic into SA on a routine basis.
Opposing the line are (1) farmers not generally opposed in principle but concerned about practical impacts which come down to the specific location of the line (2) farmers who in truth are worried about it impacting their ability to subdivide their farm for residential building land and (3) hardline protestors and activists.
In favour of the line are (1) renewable energy advocates (2) AEMO, engineers, governments and anyone else simply wanting to keep the lights on (3) what I'll term the pragmatic faction of the environmental movement that sees big electrical projects as perhaps not ideal, but a lot less bad than climate change.
From a technical perspective quite simply no, there is not a single circuit transmission line being built from Tasmania to Townsville as Professor Mountain claims. Individual lines are built as single or dual circuit yes, and a group of lines is commonly shown on a map as a single line for simplicity, but the bulk transmission routes are 2+ circuits in the context of running between states.
Qld - NSW is 2 x 330kV AC lines and there's the DC line as well.
NSW - Vic there's 3 x 330kV, 1 x 220kV and also via Hume power station there's a connection that's 66kV on the Victorian side and 132kV on the NSW side.
SA - Vic there's 2 x 275KV, which connects to 2 x 500kV lines not far into Victoria, plus there's the separate DC line as well.
Tas - Vic is the exception, that is a single circuit DC line. Hence the proposal to build a second and ultimately third cable across Bass Strait.
Within the states it gets more complicated but bottom line is the bulk transmission system generally comprises 2+ circuits from A to B. though not always following the same physical route. Some exceptions do exist, for example the line from Mildura to Broken Hill is single circuit and likewise the smaller hydro, gas turbine and wind / solar generators are often connected via a single circuit line simply because there's no real need to do otherwise.
Those single circuits don't threaten the entire system, worst case if they fail then a mine or low population area loses power or they take a small power station offline but they don't threaten the system overall. Larger stations are all on multiple circuits for reliability.
Vic - Tas being the exception but even that won't matter most of the time. There are circumstances where it would, it could cause some blackouts in Vic during periods of extreme demand and it could require more gas to be used for generation in Tas, but ultimately society won't crash and burn. Bearing in mind that Tas was a completely isolated system, not connected to any other state, until late-2005 anyway.
So I really don't know what he's on about there but it's simply not a correct statement.
Transmission maps as below.
Note there's nothing further west in SA so I've cut that off. Map source = AEMO and noting this is all freely available to anyone who wants it, there's nothing hidden or confidential about any of this stuff.
Voltages:
Yellow = 500kV
Orange = 330kV
Pink = 275kV
Blue = 220kV
Red = 110 and 132kV
Brown 66kV and lower
View attachment 155714
View attachment 155713
View attachment 155706
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As a technicality it's 2922 MW at the limitShut down 2,000MW at call station and put in a 700MW 4hr duration battery, that's going to fix it.
Yeh but we are getting a battery, I mean everyone wants one. ?As a technicality it's 2922 MW at the limit
4 x 720 MW steam units if they're pushed hard enough using the best coal but they get to ~695 - 700 MW more easily. Original nameplate rating and how the former Electricity Commission of NSW ran them was a maximum of 660 MW each, they did that reliably on any available coal and weren't being stressed too hard.
Plus a gas turbine that can be pushed to 42 MW in theory though in practice 40 MW would be more usual. Might get all 42 if it's cold enough.
That's being pedantic though.....
A related issue with batteries is how to use them.Yeh but we are getting a battery, I mean everyone wants one. ?
Did you ever work there ?All done now, last generation from Liddell just before 10:30am this morning. It's now at zero.
No.Did you ever work there ?
Not only is it a small grid but it has even smaller industrial components..than the rest of Australia..which does not say much...The reality of what is really required is starting to be acknowledged.
W.A is a very small grid, compared to the East Coast, so it is feasible IMO.
WA plans huge switch to solar and storage as part of stunning 50GW green energy boom | RenewEconomy
Western Australia unveils stunning plan to build more than 50GW of new capacity, with a focus on solar and storage, to meet electrification and green industry needs.reneweconomy.com.au
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