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So it would not surprise greatly if it closed them all down.Losses in our Australia business impacted the Group’s results reflecting the challenges of a market in energy transition. Group Operating Earnings before and after EnergyAustralia fair value movements down by 23% to HK$7,560 million and 51% to HK$4,623 million respectively.
How smart are we to allow the transfer of ownership of part of a generating infrastructure to a Chinese owned company?
The shutting down for maintenance and eventual closure of the Latrobe Valley coal fired plants owned by Energy Australia should come as no surprise to anyone.
As a technicality Energy Australia only owns one coal-fired plant in the Latrobe Valley such that closing it will indeed be closing them all.So it would not surprise greatly if it closed them all down.
Trouble is, the extent of the problem.Exactly. This is something the RBA cannot solve. It's up to governments to take the pressure of gas and electricity price increases.
What they have done so far is not enough.
Trouble is, the extent of the problem.
There's a very long period of doing the wrong thing with all this so it's not going to be fixed quickly. Even if someone throws money, it still takes a long time to get things built.
That we'd come to this point is the fear that engineers and others have had in their minds for a long time now and it has indeed been a long time coming.
To fix it is doable, but on a scale of tasks it's not really comparable to (for example) walking from Melbourne to Geelong. It's more akin to saying you're going to walk to Darwin. Not impossible but it's quite a task.
Where would you start ?Trouble is, the extent of the problem.
There's a very long period of doing the wrong thing with all this so it's not going to be fixed quickly. Even if someone throws money, it still takes a long time to get things built.
That we'd come to this point is the fear that engineers and others have had in their minds for a long time now and it has indeed been a long time coming.
To fix it is doable, but on a scale of tasks it's not really comparable to (for example) walking from Melbourne to Geelong. It's more akin to saying you're going to walk to Darwin. Not impossible but it's quite a task.
By getting people who actually now, to sit down and make a flow chart of how to get to the end result and then working out a sensible time frame for each of the steps, taking into account all the system security, procurement and logistics, environmental, funding and labour availability.Where would you start ?
If someone put me in charge with unlimited powers to do whatever's required, then my first steps would be:Where would you start ?
Nailed it smurf. ?In terms of what the options are, there's basically 4 that could plausibly be built (though two of them are pretty unlikely). The figures quoted come from AEMO calculations not mine.
1. Wind, solar, batteries, short duration pumped storage + 19 GW of deep firming capacity, comprising 9GW of existing hydro and Snowy 2.0 and 10GW of intermittently operated fossil fuel plant (in practice gas / diesel).
2. As above but replacing part or all of the gas / diesel plant with more large storage hydro.
3. Nuclear power as a partial or even full alternative to all the above except the existing hydro which would be retained.
4. As per (3) but using coal instead of nuclear. This would represent the abandonment of addressing the climate change issue but technically it's possible so I've included it.
Noting that a combination of approaches is possible. Eg build a bit more hydro to reduce but not eliminate the gas / diesel. Or build a single nuclear power station to reduce the scale of the rest but not eliminate it. Any combination is possible, it's not an "all or nothing" situation since they all produce the same output, they all generate electricity.
That said, realistically, option 1 with perhaps some bits of option 2 is by far the most likely under present circumstances and is the base case scenario. So that is, we build wind, solar, shallow storage (batteries + short duration pumped hydro) and we retain all existing hydro. For long duration storage we might add some more hydro but not to the point of eliminating gas / diesel which does the rest.
Reason to not simply use wind, solar and shallow storage comes down to the problem of multiple consecutive days of poor wind and solar yield. Some will dispute it but suffice to say BOM data, and the real world operating experience of wind and solar installed thus far, both clearly show it to be a problem. That's how AEMO came up with needing 19 GW between large storage hydro and fossil fuels, that's the specific reason for it.
Hydrogen? At some point sure but it's not a commercial off the shelf technology right now and we're unlikely to see a pure hydrogen facility running in the near term. It's still some way off from being a real alternative.
Gas? Beyond a peaking and backup role the basic problem there comes down to a question - what gas? Once we take into account residential, commercial and industrial use of gas "as gas" (that is, not for electricity generation) and we add in committed exports then to be blunt we ain't got no gas. At least not from existing known reserves. It works otherwise but that's the reason it's not seriously on the table as an option beyond a peaking and backup role. Same with oil, it's an imported and fairly costly resource in practice.
4. As per (3) but using coal instead of nuclear. This would represent the abandonment of addressing the climate change issue but technically it's possible so I've included it.
And something that I mentioned would be the probable outcome, to all the pressure being brought to bear on Australian producers, another massive own goal in the making.Speaking of coal, China does not appear inhibited by the CC issue, it's flat out building new coal power stations.
China is building six times more new coal plants than the rest of the world combined, new research shows
China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity last year — the equivalent of two large coal power plants per week — new research shows.www.abc.net.au
Don't worry @sptrawler, its all part of the great master plan.And something that I mentioned would be the probable outcome, to all the pressure being brought to bear on Australian producers, another massive own goal in the making.
Selling off the farm, eventually this has to affect the ability for Australia to fund it standard of living IMO.
Will China be selling the coal it mines in Australia, to its parent company in China, for world market prices, that actually wouldn't make sense, so our net proceeds reduces.
But hey it's all in a good cause, at least we wont be selling it to them, so we can sleep easy. ?
Yancoal seeks to purchase BMA’s Queensland coal mines | Argus Media
Chinese-owned coal producer Yancoal wants to buy BHP Mitsubishi Alliance's (BMA's) Daunia and Blackwater mines to help balance its thermal and metallurgical coal production capabilities.www.argusmedia.com
Like this you mean?Don't worry @sptrawler, its all part of the great master plan.
Sell off all the coal mines to the Chinese, pocket the money, then put massive export royalties on coal to buy Carbon Credits to offset the coal selling.
On a similar note, just heard that a Canadian pension fund has spent about 8mill buying p a series of orchards here in the GV.
We could apply the same principal to apples and pears.
Mick
Speaking of coal, China does not appear inhibited by the CC issue, it's flat out building new coal power stations.
China is building six times more new coal plants than the rest of the world combined, new research shows
China approved the construction of another 106 gigawatts of coal-fired power capacity last year — the equivalent of two large coal power plants per week — new research shows.www.abc.net.au
Yes in this thread a couple of years back, it was mentioned China had 105 coal fired power station announced.
Yes in this thread a couple of years back, it was mentioned China had 105 coal fired power station announced.
It looks like they will be buying up our coal mines to supply them, which is nice of us.
Nah, nothing wrong with that plan from a Chinese or Indian perspective.
mick
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