The future of energy generation and storage

[sptrawler]

From a purely personal perspective, well I expect that by the time I'm dead the longest hours I'll ever have put in at work will have been for government not private. Government tends to be more laid back on average but when trouble strikes the workers do go to extremes that the private sector baulks at.

Absolutely, when I worked for regional power, the guys same for same were being paid less, than those in major power stations.
When regional power was privatised, the same guys were picked up by the private sector and paid double and so they should have, they were get it done without the drama people.

 

[Smurf1976]

Some things are better done by government, other things are better done by private IMO, these are usually differentiated by whether it is an essential service or a cost driven service.

Where it can go wrong is when the two are combined.

The supply of power to Esperance in WA comes to mind in that regard. Esperance is not on the main grid and is supplied from a privately owned power station using gas produced by other private enterprise, transported in a privately owned pipeline, under contract to a state government owned utility company.

Long story short it has ended up with a rather bizarre outcome involving a new company taking over, replacing the (not worn out) power station with a new one and supplying it with gas not via the perfectly good pipeline which already exists but instead with LNG transported by road from Kwinana, a distance of 700km one way.

It would be hard to come up with a more bizarre solution if you tried given the unnecessary financial cost, gas use in liquefaction and fuel use in transport this entails. What it comes down though to is government awarding contracts which don't align with equipment lifecycles. It ends up with perfectly good equipment scrapped and so on.

But then the "competition" advocates would arc up if government awarded 30+ year contracts.

Some will see it as perfectly sensible and from an administrative or legal perspective it may be but from either an engineering or environmental perspective it's really quite bizarre, especially the bit about road hauling LNG when there's a pipeline already built.

Esperance also has some historical significance in terms of energy, being the site of Australia's first commercial wind farm opened in 1987. The original turbines no longer operate, though are still there as a museum of sorts, but wind energy is still used from a newer wind farm nearby. That's the good bit - just some strange goings on with gas.

 

[rederob]

Why would Canberra(taxpayer) be the coal bank, much better to build a high efficiency gas plant, to hold the coal plants to account IMO.

That's not planning for our probable energy future.
That future in Australia is renewables with storage.
Putting in place policies to achieve this is not that hard.
For example, adopt a levelling of the playing field approach for generators whereby renewables compete on terms that require them to also carry dispatchable power in any of the non-ff storage formats. Amend the RET scheme accordingly.
Lots could be done proactively but, instead, our government has no plan for our energy future beyond a pricing model, so keeps stumping up with stopgap brain farts.

 

[sptrawler]

For example, adopt a levelling of the playing field approach for generators whereby renewables compete on terms that require them to also carry dispatchable power in any of the non-ff storage formats. Amend the RET scheme accordingly.

That is a given, it is crazy to keep building solar/wind farms, without complimentary storage, all it is doing is adding to the problem. The down side is it may well make the project cost prohibitive, but I personally doubt it, the operational savings with renewables would still be attractive IMO.

 

[IFocus]

From a purely personal perspective, well I expect that by the time I'm dead the longest hours I'll ever have put in at work will have been for government not private. Government tends to be more laid back on average but when trouble strikes the workers do go to extremes that the private sector baulks at.

Different from my experience private always worked extreme hours, government (state) long hours as required how ever both groups were committed.

Health and safety act help wind the hours back in later years in the private world.

In terms of risk for the workers most big constructions sites had usually 2 to 3 dead body allowance (mid to late 70's) along with SECWA who accepted around 3 dead linemen a year.

81 I think it was SECWA sacked the safety department heads and decided dying on the job was a bad thing and went on a massive culture change of attitude to risk and live line work thankfully dropping the death rate of its workers.

Smurf worked for SECWA (81) when a young bloke dropped his 12 inch shifter across live terminals at the Esperance power station. Severe burns in hospital and the department management tried to get him to sign a document (in his hospital bed) saying he wasn't instructed to do the work when in fact he had been told to needless to say he didn't sign.

I heard all this second hand but maybe Esperance power station is that sort of place

 

[Smurf1976]

Different from my experience private always worked extreme hours, government (state) long hours as required how ever both groups were committed.

I suspect it's one of those things where a lot depends on the individuals involved, management as well as workers, and their workplace.

Also a difference between a state owned corporation versus the public service.

Back to physical energy supply in the short term however, return to service dates for Callide power station in Queensland have been delayed, now as follows:

B station:
Unit 1 = 15 June
Unit 2 = 20 June

C station:
Unit 3 = 2 July
Unit 4 = No date set.

Also CS Energy have appointed an external engineer by the name of Dr Sean Brady to lead a full investigation into the incident.

Of note, from CS Energy's statement

The scope of the investigation will be broad in nature and will assess both technical and organisational factors that could have contributed to the C4 incident.

It will be a highly complex investigation and Dr Brady has been given the authority to expand its scope based on progressive findings. As a result, the timeframes for finalising the investigation cannot be confirmed at this stage and will instead be provided as the investigation progresses and more information becomes available

I'll avoid commenting on the various rumours surrounding the whole thing but I note that Dr Brady has effectively been given autonomy to investigate anything and everything, not limited to engineering and technical matters.

This won't be sorted out quickly.

 

[sptrawler]

Different from my experience private always worked extreme hours, government (state) long hours as required how ever both groups were committed.

Health and safety act help wind the hours back in later years in the private world.

In terms of risk for the workers most big constructions sites had usually 2 to 3 dead body allowance (mid to late 70's) along with SECWA who accepted around 3 dead linemen a year.

81 I think it was SECWA sacked the safety department heads and decided dying on the job was a bad thing and went on a massive culture change of attitude to risk and live line work thankfully dropping the death rate of its workers.

Smurf worked for SECWA (81) when a young bloke dropped his 12 inch shifter across live terminals at the Esperance power station. Severe burns in hospital and the department management tried to get him to sign a document (in his hospital bed) saying he wasn't instructed to do the work when in fact he had been told to needless to say he didn't sign.

I heard all this second hand but maybe Esperance power station is that sort of place

I worked in regional power stations, from 85 to 89, did a couple of jobs at Esperance one when we started using MFO on the diesels, never heard of the shifter accident.
But I do know that exact accident happened in the mid 1970s, at Kambalda, the leading hand and a young sparkie where working in the mill switchroom, I was an Instrument apprentice there at the time.
Over time, I think the story might have changed slightly.
One of the major power stations had a couple of bad electrical incidents too, one an apprentice went into the wrong 3.3kv ACB cubicle to clean the spouts and another an operator when racking in a 6.6 ACB picked up the cubicle heater with the carriage and inserted it into the busbars, very nasty, both incidents really tragic.

 

[Smurf1976]

But I do know that exact accident happened

Always bad to hear of any accident in any workplace no matter who owns it or who's involved.

Meanwhile Yallourn W, second largest power station in Vic, 3 or 4 units now shut down in an orderly manner, other one still on for the moment. Floods.

Yallourn is owned by Energy Australia (not ASX listed).

 

[Smurf1976]

Meanwhile Yallourn W, second largest power station in Vic, 3 or 4 units now shut down in an orderly manner, other one still on for the moment. Floods.

News report here:

In short, 3 units are off and the other is running on previously mined coal.

Short term, there's no immediate threat to supply but it's not sustainable to have it off since keeping the lights on is basically relying on unsustainable use of hydro resources and better than average performance of other plant. No immediate panic but can't do that forever.

 

[sptrawler]

An interesting article @Joules MM1 posted, in another thread, it really looks as though Australia is going to be front and center of the renewable drive in Europe.

Germany, Australia sign hydrogen accord to boost lower-emissions technology

Germany and Australia on Sunday signed a bilateral alliance on hydrogen production and trade to try to facilitate a renewable energy-based hydrogen supply chain between the two countries.

www.reuters.com

From the article:
Germany and Australia on Sunday signed a bilateral alliance on hydrogen production and trade to try to facilitate a renewable energy-based hydrogen supply chain between the two countries.
Economy Minister Peter Altmaier and Education and Research Minister Anja Karliczek signed a letter of intent to set up a "Germany Australia Hydrogen Accord" with Australian Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor, the German Economy Ministry said in a statement.

It said the cooperation was about enabling "the import of sustainably produced hydrogen in relevant volumes, which is an important factor to reach our tighter climate targets."

In a statement, Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said international collaboration was key to getting new energy technologies like hydrogen to commercial parity.
"Our ambition is to produce the cheapest clean hydrogen in the world, which will transform transport, mining, resources and manufacturing at home and overseas," Morrison said.

Big energy firms including German utility RWE (RWEG.DE) and Uniper (UN01.DE) have started looking into possible new trade routes for hydrogen, a cleaner alternative to fossil fuels, from Australia and other places. read more

Germany's 9 billion-euro ($10.9 billion) hydrogen strategy launched last summer, which is embedded in wider European Union strategies, is based on the assumption that some 80% of its hydrogen requirements may have to be imported in the long term.

 

[Smurf1976]

There's power coming out of Callide once again.

B station unit 1 online at 16:35 this afternoon and operating normally.

Rest of it remains off but something's happening at least. B station unit 2 goes on next if all goes to plan then the remaining good machine in C station.

Meanwhile in Victoria, Yallourn's bumbling along running at 12% of capacity using up what's left of the coal in the bunkers then that's it until the mine's back up and running. If not then it'll be going to zero.

A point of perhaps more relevance to the forum however is the financial side. Whilst neither Callide nor Yallourn are owned by listed companies, the market impact is going to be hitting a few.

Average whole of NEM spot prices for the week beginning:

3 May = $53.89
10 May = $63.58
17 May = $136.26
24 May = $183.98
31 May = $178.30
7 June = $183.44
14 June to date = $352.83

For reference, average price for 2020 calendar year was $57.62

Any business, be that an electricity generation business, a retailer or an industrial consumer, who's exposed to the spot price without hedging is going to be making or losing some pretty serious $ with all this and it ain't over yet.

Location is highly relevant there, state by state average 1 June to date:

Qld = $369.46
NSW = $260.33
Vic = $82.42
SA = $81.23
Tas = $53.80

WA isn't affected as being a separate system but for the record, average spot price during June thus far has been $56.30

At those prices in Qld and NSW, any retailer that's unhedged on the supply side and which doesn't own any physical generation could well blow itself up financially pretty soon. There's no coded message there, I'm not hinting at anyone in particular, but if I was considering investing in any such company then I'd be looking very carefully into their business. Versus those who own physical production who are either gaining from the situation or, if they're selling it all under contract, neutral.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm not sure if this is a repeat of the NSW 'renewable roadmap', or a further investment in it, but it sound as though the transmission gridlock in western NSW, is finally going to be sorted.

NSW to invest $380 million to turbocharge renewable energy rollout

The Berejiklian government will spend an extra $380 million to help expedite investment into the state’s five renewable energy zones and smooth the way for an increase in solar, wind and storage projects.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Energy Minister Matt Kean said the package was the biggest state investment in large-scale renewable energy in NSW’s history, supporting “the most ambitious renewable energy policy in the country”.

All the state’s five remaining coal-fired power stations will reach the end of their technical lives in the next 15 years, and NSW was “on the clock to replace them before they close to keep the lights on and prices down”, he said.
The $380 million will partly go to pay for transmission upgrades in the Central West-Orana Renewable Energy Zone so that region can be ready to go by the end of 2022. It will also help pay for the setting up of a Consumer Trustee, Financial Trustee and Regulator to ensure competition in the new zones benefits consumers.

The roadmap aims to bring online 12 gigawatts of renewable energy capacity and 2 gigawatts of storage such as big batteries and pumped hydro projects by 2030.

 

[basilio]

Not a big deal in terms of producing energy .

Or perhaps it could be ? A cheap vertical axis wind turbine that would harvest the air currents created on freeways

 

[rederob]

What ‘vehicle-to-everything’ electric vehicle pilots mean for the grid​

The above article looks at many of the issues facing the use of BEVs to smooth the transition to more widespread electrification as renewables uptake increases.

 

[sptrawler]

It sounds like Yallourn has more problems, than just the catastrophic damage to one unit, it sounds like the whole plant will be under a cloud.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...to-cost-tens-of-millions-20210704-p586nx.html

 

[Smurf1976]

It sounds like Yallourn has more problems, than just the catastrophic damage to one unit

You're mixing up power stations there....

Catastrophic damage occurred to a unit at Callide C station in Queensland.

Yallourn mine is in Victoria. There's a problem with the mine but not the power station itself.

No relation between the two incidents other than both involving power generation and being within a short period of each other but they're otherwise unrelated.

Present status:

Callide B = Has returned to full operation of both units. 2 x 350 MW.

Callide C = Not operating at all. One unit is catastrophically damaged, the other also hasn't run since the incident. 2 x 420 MW

Yallourn W = Coal mining has resumed and all 4 units are presently in full operation but the ability to continue doing so depends on the ongoing supply of coal. If it starts raining heavily well then there's a big problem if the river diversion fails and it ends up flowing into and thus flooding the mine. Note there is no other use of coal from the mine, and no other source of coal for the power station, the mine and power station being effectively the same operation. Capacity is 2 x 360 MW and 2 x 380 MW.

 

[sptrawler]

My mistake @Smurf1976, getting the two stations confused.

 

[sptrawler]

More pressure on the coal generators, as battery storage prices tumble.

Big $300m battery to be built without government aid in market first

Australia will get its first grid-scale battery built without government support by the end of 2022, marking what its proponent says is a tipping point in the electricity sector as storage prices tumble.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Victoria will get Australia’s first grid-scale battery built without government support by the end of 2022, marking what its proponent says is a tipping point in the electricity sector as storage prices tumble.
Lumea, the commercial arm of TransGrid, began taking expressions of interest on Monday for a giant 300-megawatt battery to be built at its Deer Park substation, west of Melbourne.
Lumea’s head of infrastructure, Nigel Buchanan, said the array of lithium-ion batteries would be able to supply 580 megawatt hours of electricity, enough to power about 1 million homes for half an hour before needing to be recharged.

It would come online in 12 to 18 months at a cost of $270 million to $300 million. In a first, the venture would be fully financed by the private sector.
Plans for the Deer Park battery come eight months after the Victorian government announced plans for a 300-megawatt large-scale battery for Geelong to be operating from this November. The government’s plan to draw half of the state’s power from renewable energy by 2030 will likely require a large increase of energy storage options.
While the early market for batteries has been dominated by the supply of frequency controls and other so-called ancillary services, those opportunities will diminish at least until the next coal-fired power plant closes, he said.

Rather, the main market opportunity for batteries will be to take advantage of tapping low-cost electricity and then releasing it during higher-cost periods.

The introduction of five-minute settlement periods within the National Electricity Market in October to replace the current 30-minute period also means “there will be plenty of arbitrage to go around” for suppliers such as battery owners, Professor Mountain said.

 

[Smurf1976]

I've previously mentioned the price of gas surging and the problems that's causing.

It seems to be in the media now: https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-a...s-prices-alarms-manufacturers-20210706-p587b4

“Twenty-eight dollar gas is not OK. This is wreaking havoc with industry and jobs.”

I'm generally a tad more reserved on the political side but in this case I'll be blunt and say that this was entirely foreseeable and actually foreseen but simply ignored by successive governments.

 

[sptrawler]

AGL to close one of the S.A based Torrens Island B station gas fired turbines, I presume they are steam units, so basically suffer from the same issues as the coal fired units do. They don't like being cycled.
As per usual, the media has to load the article with their bias and misinformation, comparing a proposed new generation HEGT station, with coal and gas fired boilers driving old steam turbines, the muppets will have something to tutt tutt about over their lattes. ?
Talk about comparing apples with avocado's.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...s-renewable-energy-soars-20210707-p587jb.html
From the article:
Energy giant AGL is preparing to mothball one of four units at South Australia’s biggest gas-fired power station as the influx of large-scale renewable energy and rooftop solar power continues to price fossil fuels out of the market.

AGL has notified the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) it will take the unit at its Torrens B power station offline in October, citing “challenging conditions” that do not support the viability of operating all four generation units.

AGL’s move is the latest sign of the accelerating clean-energy transition driving down wholesale electricity prices to the point where coal and gas are unable to complete, and comes as the federal government presses on with plans for Snowy Hydro to build a $600 million taxpayer-funded gas-fired power plant at Kurri Kurri, NSW.