The future of energy generation and storage

[SirRumpole]

All of SA is currently without power if you believe this report.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-28/south-australia-without-power-live-blog/7885972

 

[Smurf1976]

I can confirm that the SA electricity system suffered a total collapse this afternoon.

Vic - SA transmission was completely lost (there are two AC and one DC circuit connecting the two states) and all SA generation shut down.

So there's zero availability of electricity from the grid in SA, to anyone including essential services, at the present time. Anyone who does have power will be using their own generator, batteries etc to get it since the grid is literally dead throughout SA.

It will take quite some time to get the system back up and running since all SA's power stations will need to be restarted from scratch and that's not something that can be done "just like that".

Supply has been unaffected in other states.

Immediately upon the failure generation in Victoria, Tasmania, NSW and Queensland was all reduced modestly with maximum power flow immediately occurring on the Vic > NSW and Vic > Tas transmission lines however reaching these limits this caused no significant problems in those states.

Note that the reduction of generation in other states, and sending power from Vic into other states, are a consequence of the SA system collapse and not the cause of it. You can't put power into the system if there's nowhere for it to go, so with SA disconnected it's a given that generation had to be ramped down elsewhere. So generation was reduced in Vic and as much as possible was sent elsewhere (there's a limit to how quickly any one power station can reduce output in an orderly manner, hence sharing the task).

If you're in SA and reading this then the crux of it is "don't stay up waiting for the power to come back on". Depending on exactly where (electrically) you are in the state will have some influence but for most the answer is likely to be "sometime overnight power will be restored".

Other services:

Water - I'm not an expert on SA's water supply system but ultimately a lot of water pumps will now be completely idle. It's plausible that some areas may run dry or experience pressure drops.

Communications - To the extent that it's working it will be largely running on battery power with some use of diesel generators. Depending on how long the power's out, don't count on your mobile or other means of communications continuing to work.

 

[CanOz]

Wow, an entire state out of power, that's incredible...i hope everyone stays safe!

 

[sptrawler]

I can confirm that the SA electricity system suffered a total collapse this afternoon.

Vic - SA transmission was completely lost (there are two AC and one DC circuit connecting the two states) and all SA generation shut down.

So there's zero availability of electricity from the grid in SA, to anyone including essential services, at the present time. Anyone who does have power will be using their own generator, batteries etc to get it since the grid is literally dead throughout SA.

It will take quite some time to get the system back up and running since all SA's power stations will need to be restarted from scratch and that's not something that can be done "just like that".

Supply has been unaffected in other states.

Immediately upon the failure generation in Victoria, Tasmania, NSW and Queensland was all reduced modestly with maximum power flow immediately occurring on the Vic > NSW and Vic > Tas transmission lines however reaching these limits this caused no significant problems in those states.

Note that the reduction of generation in other states, and sending power from Vic into other states, are a consequence of the SA system collapse and not the cause of it. You can't put power into the system if there's nowhere for it to go, so with SA disconnected it's a given that generation had to be ramped down elsewhere. So generation was reduced in Vic and as much as possible was sent elsewhere (there's a limit to how quickly any one power station can reduce output in an orderly manner, hence sharing the task).

If you're in SA and reading this then the crux of it is "don't stay up waiting for the power to come back on". Depending on exactly where (electrically) you are in the state will have some influence but for most the answer is likely to be "sometime overnight power will be restored".

Other services:

Water - I'm not an expert on SA's water supply system but ultimately a lot of water pumps will now be completely idle. It's plausible that some areas may run dry or experience pressure drops.

Communications - To the extent that it's working it will be largely running on battery power with some use of diesel generators. Depending on how long the power's out, don't count on your mobile or other means of communications continuing to work.

We in W.A had exactly the same problem in the early 1990's, it wasn't fun, the only station that could black start was Kwinana.

Then you have to decide which unit is the quickest and easiest to bring on line, then closing on consumers without overloading the unit and re establishing other units is a real nervous situation.

Can Torrens Island gas units start? or will they require the interconnect to start auxiliaries?

It sounds really interesting, will be a mini series on t.v soon.

 

[Smurf1976]

I wonder if the gas plant can "black start", smurph? That would be a real Faux Pas, if it can't.lol

I'd have to check to see exactly what capabilities they have in SA but yes, they can do a black start with some of their power stations.

Layman's terms explanation for everyone other than Smurf and sptrawler:

Power stations have a lot of electrical systems in them, they need power to operate as well as producing it. It varies with the technology (steam turbines, hydro etc) how much is needed but any power station will consume a bit of what it produces and send the rest into the grid.

Normally, to start a power station power is drawn from the grid (from other power stations already operating) in order to start another power station (or another machine at a power station with multiple generating units).

Now, if the whole grid is completely dead as is the case in SA then obviously you can't do that. Can't draw power from another power station to start one when the whole lot have gone down.

This is where "black start" (and that's the proper term for it by the way) becomes critical. You have backup systems at a few power stations which power only the power station itself. That power is then used to start the normal generating units, bring the grid back up (with all loads still disconnected at this stage) and that then enables other power stations (those which don't have black start capability) to be started. Once they're running, then you put the loads back on gradually (can't do it all at once since it takes time to ramp up generation).

As one non-SA example, Gordon power station (Tasmania, hydro) is a black start power station (we also have others). It can be used to bring the grid back up in the case of a total system failure and then get everything else running.

Gordon has 3 x 144MW units that comprise the power station for normal operations. For black starts there's also a completely separate small hydro turbine which can be started manually without the need for external power. Power from that machine can then be used to start the main generating units at Gordon, and they bring the grid back up and start everything else. And just in case that small hydro unit fails for some reason we've got a permanently installed diesel generator located above ground (Gordon PS itself is underground) which is a second option for doing a black start at Gordon. And if Gordon can't do it (for whatever reason) then there's similar things at some other power stations too.

I'm not sure exactly what SA has in that regard but I'm sure they do have black start capabilities so yes, they'll be able to restart the grid. Simplest option is to get the AC link to Victoria back up and use power from Vic to re-start generation in SA but they do have other options too.

Once generation is up and running, it's then a case of putting loads back on. Assuming the AC link to Vic can be brought back online, that will be a big help since it will enable a more rapid restoration with the Vic system absorbing (and partly passing through to NSW and Tas, with NSW able to pass some through to Qld) the "shocks" to the system as loads are turned back on whilst SA generation ramps up gradually.

In layman's terms, think of turning loads back on as THUMP! A bit like suddenly letting the clutch out on a manual car in top gear - that's a sudden shock to the engine and do it too quickly and it will stall (grid goes dead again, all generation shuts down) but being able to pass most of that through to other states will make it a lot easier since that removes the need to closely balance SA generation (slowly ramps up) and load (which for any given distribution line is either fully on or fully off). So power stations in the other states will assist in putting the lights back on in SA as long as the physical means to do so (Vic - SA transmission) is working.

If no Vic - SA transmission then it can still be done but will take longer to get power fully restored since the boilers at Torrens Island (by far the largest power station in SA) can only ramp up at a certain rate and it's the same for every other power station too.

A system black like SA has right now is the power industry's worst nightmare by any measure. It can be dealt with but will take some time (most of the night realistically).

 

[Smurf1976]

Update:

Vic - SA transmission has been established and some power is flowing from Vic to SA. Also some wind generation back up in SA and a diesel-fired gas turbine has been run also.

Roughly 20% of normal load is now back on.

Still zero output from any major power station in SA at the present time.

 

[sptrawler]

A system black like SA has right now is the power industry's worst nightmare by any measure. It can be dealt with but will take some time (most of the night realistically).

I would hate to be the operations manager at Torrens ATM.

 

[macca]

Thanks for the updates, very interesting

 

[Smurf1976]

A bit under 500 MW is now being supplied in SA. That compares with about 1800 MW at this time yesterday and about 1900 MW immediately prior to the failure.

So allowing for day to day variation (due to heating and cooling etc) it's fair to say that 25 - 30% of "business as usual" load is now back on.

About 60% of that supply into SA is coming from Victoria. The rest is some wind and also generation at partial capacity from Quarantine power station (gas) and Port Lincoln (oil). Both of those power stations are relatively small and normally only used for peak loads however.

At present there is still zero output from any major power station normally used for base load in SA (Torrens Island, Pelican Point, Osborne).

Apparently there has been some physical destruction of the transmission grid with reports that a number of steel towers have physically collapsed due to the storms. Apparently they're bent over about a third the way up such that the wires are lying on the ground. That won't keep the whole state in the dark but might (I don't know for sure) cause a localised problem with restoring power in some parts fo the state if there's no transmission still working in that area.

 

[sptrawler]

A bit under 500 MW is now being supplied in SA. That compares with about 1800 MW at this time yesterday and about 1900 MW immediately prior to the failure.

So allowing for day to day variation (due to heating and cooling etc) it's fair to say that 25 - 30% of "business as usual" load is now back on.

About 60% of that supply into SA is coming from Victoria. The rest is some wind and also generation at partial capacity from Quarantine power station (gas) and Port Lincoln (oil). Both of those power stations are relatively small and normally only used for peak loads however.

At present there is still zero output from any major power station normally used for base load in SA (Torrens Island, Pelican Point, Osborne).

Everything coming back under control, at ease everyone, just another day in paradise.

 

[sptrawler]

Well maybe some questions will be asked.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/s...ance-on-renewable-energy-20160928-grqq9k.html

 

[noco]

Well maybe some questions will be asked.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/s...ance-on-renewable-energy-20160928-grqq9k.html

If the South Australian Government had a least one coal fired or one nuclear power station instead of relying upon the inefficient renewables and Victoria, they would not be in the situation they now find themselves.

The South Australian government should start thinking for themselves instead of being influenced by their Green coalition partners.

 

[sptrawler]

So now all we need to do over on the East Coast, is shut down Hazelwood and Loy Yang coal fired power stations, then we can really see how renewable energy works.

At least Labor are prepared to put it on the line, no point in being half ar$ed about it, shut them down then sort out the outcomes.
Labor were going to buy them and shut them down, with the carbon tax years ago, when Ferguson was wearing a guernsey.

Positive reinforcement, that's what we need, some seat of the pants planning.
Necessity is the mother of invention, go Billy.

My laugh of the day.

There is nothing like mother nature, to give humans a reality check.

 

[Smurf1976]

About a third of supply in SA restored now.

About two thirds of that supply is coming from Vic and the rest from generation in SA. One of the 120MW units at Torrens Island is now up and running so that's a good sign.

There's two things I'm pretty sure will come out of all this:

1. A lot of political witch hunting.

2. A lot of children will be born in SA about 9 months from now.....

More seriously, hopefully everyone in SA is OK. There's been a massive storm it seems, quite a lot of damage, and in that context having no power for a lot of people isn't going to be their only problem right now. So hopefully no lives have been lost with the weather.

 

[sptrawler]

About a third of supply in SA restored now.

About two thirds of that supply is coming from Vic and the rest from generation in SA. One of the 120MW units at Torrens Island is now up and running so that's a good sign.

There's two things I'm pretty sure will come out of all this:

1. A lot of political witch hunting.

2. A lot of children will be born in SA about 9 months from now.....

More seriously, hopefully everyone in SA is OK. There's been a massive storm it seems, quite a lot of damage, and in that context having no power for a lot of people isn't going to be their only problem right now. So hopefully no lives have been lost with the weather.

It just goes to show how dependent we are on reliable power, because we have so few of these events, we become complacent.

As you say smurph, all's well that ends well, hope all you crow eaters are doing o.k.



The Bass Link failure and now this extreme S.A storm, just shows how fragile the the link, between our wish for renewables and our reality is.

I think it will be a reality check for a lot of people.

 

[Smurf1976]

The Bass Link failure

Storage presently at about 38% (from an all time low of 12.5% during the recent crisis) and the Tamar Valley CCGT (gas) will be fired up next month to run base load until sometime in Autumn.

Once bitten.....

 

[Smurf1976]

Last update on the situation in SA at least for today:

About 60% of load is restored now.

Approximately 36% of supply is coming from Victoria, about 8% from SA oil-fired generation and about 56% from SA gas-fired generation. Wind farms are still all off since the last thing anyone wants when trying to restart the system is intermittent generation.

And just for you sp, there's two 120 MW steam units at Torrens Island sitting on just over 100% of rated capacity at the moment. Not a bad effort on the part of the operators to get plant of that age (1960's) up and running and at full capacity pretty quickly under rather difficult circumstances. There's a 200 MW unit at TIPS now ramping up too.

 

[macca]

Hi Smurf,

A bit off topic but I don't understand how a problem in Pt Augusta stops the flow of power from Victoria to Adelaide.

Pt A is 300kl, the other side of Adelaide.

if you have the time, could you explain that please

thanks

 

[sptrawler]

And just for you sp, there's two 120 MW steam units at Torrens Island sitting on just over 100% of rated capacity at the moment. Not a bad effort on the part of the operators to get plant of that age (1960's) up and running and at full capacity pretty quickly under rather difficult circumstances. There's a 200 MW unit at TIPS now ramping up too.

There would have been some busy boys on shift.

 

[sptrawler]

This article gives a very good comprehensive outline of S.A electricity issues, as is said it isn't a report on the failure, but a very well written article.IMO

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...-reputation:-uhlmann/7888290?section=analysis

The layman should be able to get their head around it no problem, which is good, because too many people are making silly assumptions regarding renewables.IMO