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The future of energy generation and storage

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It looks as though the Newcastle Waters solar farm in the Northern Territory, is going to cover a similar area as the one proposed for the NW of W.A, 12,000 hectares.

Famous cattle station once owned by Kerry Packer earmarked for massive solar farm

An iconic cattle station in the Northern Territory, once owned by Kerry Packer, is revealed as the proposed location for the world's biggest solar farm.
www.abc.net.au
From the article, the elephant in the room, I have mentioned a few times in the past:

Because of its scale, and despite it being a renewable energy project, the Sun Cable proposal will need to address a number of environmental concerns according to Paul Purden, the NT Government's executive director of environmental assessment and policy.

"The NT EPA hasn't assessed many large land clearing proposals [like this one]," he said.

"The reason why the proponent Sun Cable has decided to initiate this referral themselves is because they can see this is a large proposal that includes a large amount of clearing and other components.

"So they're getting onto the front foot to say 'We think these need to be assessed', and allow the environmental impact assessment process to demonstrate they can manage any impacts to an acceptable level."

Sun Cable's referral to the EPA stated the project had "potential for significant impacts on the environment".

Mr Purden said the project would need to address a number of environmental concerns such as the impact of large-scale land clearing, impacts on the marine environment when connecting power to Singapore, and to also address "some potentially big changes to the hydrology of that land [at Newcastle Waters]".

However, Mr Purden said there were also "possibly some very positive environmental benefits from a greenhouse gas emissions point of view more broadly".

Mr Griffin said, when it came to greenhouse gas emissions and the implications of land clearing, the net greenhouse benefit would be "overwhelming for this project".
 

Certainly a promising story. They clearly have to do a thorough Environmental Impact analyis for such a project.


Sun Cable said it considered four areas in the Barkly for its solar farm and chose Newcastle Waters due to a range of factors including:
  • High solar irradiance and low annual cloud cover metrics
  • A long history of ecological disturbance from pastoral activities
  • Low potential for disturbance to surrounding land uses and receptors
  • Proximity to the Adelaide to Darwin railway, which is proposed to be used for component delivery
  • Proximity to the Stuart Highway for vehicle access and fibre optic cable connection
 
The down side IMO, is that is another 12,000 hectares that Australia can't use, I certainly hope we get something from it.
History says we will get very little from it and it can only be used once, when the area is covered they have ownership.
 
sptrawler said:
The down side IMO, is that is another 12,000 hectares that Australia can't use, I certainly hope we get something from it.
History says we will get very little from it and it can only be used once, when the area is covered they have ownership.
Click to expand...

I think that is an unduly bleak and mistaken take on the situation SP. Few points

1) The property is always held by the current owners. They are just offering a long term lease for its use as a solar generating platform
2) There are now plenty of examples of using solar sites with agricultural additions. Check out the URL
3) This project will earn Australia and the company an absolute fortune in terms of foreign exchange. And unlike mining operations it can continue indefinitely as a sustainable business
4) The land itself is not high quality agricultural land. We are talking large cattle stations which earned value from the size of their operations. Newcastle Waters is 1.03 million hectares in size , 12,000 HA is a little over 1% of the property and it was made clear the proposed area would not be on the best land.

Newcastle Waters | Consolidated Pastoral Company

Newcastle Waters is a 1,033,101ha breeding property in the west Barkly region of the Northern Territory. Its open plains, flood country and timbered sand hills can carry 65,700 head of cattle including 20,000 commercial Brahman breeders. The property is home to Newcastle Waters Brahman stud...
www.pastoral.com

Solar farms, land use and the rise of solar sharing

Critics of utility scale solar developments often point to the amount of productive land taken up by solar arrays, but
www.ecogeneration.com.au
 
O.K Bas lets watch this space in 5 years time, the 12,000 hectares in N.T is pre sold to Singapore, the 12,000 hectares in NW of W.A is pre committed to H2 production for export, how long before it becomes an ecological issue and we haven't even started to talk about domestic demand that needs to be covered. Then the additional land for the H2 driven future we are supposed to be expecting, to drive our manufacturing future.
Maybe I'm pessimistic, or maybe I'm just expecting you to be screaming about it, in 5 years time.
Time will tell, but my guess is we will sell the farm, for a handfull of trinkets like has happened with the gas. ?
But as with everything these days, get everyone to focus on the small picture, while the real action is happening behind the scenes.

Your link summed it up really well:

However, solar farms can be compared favourably to alternative uses such as mining. Not only can solar farm sites be easily rehabilitated at the end of their project life, but it is also possible for solar farms to offer dual purpose land activities, providing land owners with an opportunity to diversify their land use and increase the overall value and productivity.

While solar farms have large land footprints, not all of the land is actively taken up by solar panels or related infrastructure. Typically, modules in solar farms are installed on framing systems mounted on piles or concrete ballasts. Disturbance to the ground is usually less than 5 per cent of the area used, and only around 40 per cent of the surface is over-sailed by solar modules (BRE, 2014). As solar modules are tilted and raised on posts to avoid shading, the land beneath the module, as well as unshaded land between rows, is still available for plant growth, allowing for agricultural activities such as grazing and cropping.

If you can't see the whitewashing in those statements, don't complain when I tell you "I told you so in 5 years time" and I'm not a greenie at all. lol
For one, a mine doesn't cover 12,000 hectares more like 20 hectares and 40% coverage is a lot of U.V that isn't getting to the ground. lol
It sounds like it came from the Trump camp to me. ?
It is a bit like the East Coast gas situation IMO, "this is great, yes tap it, yes sell it, we are making a killing, just do it",
" hang on we haven't got anything for us",
"fluck where have my feet gone".
OMG it is so predictable.
 
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Another Renewable energy project for Oz.
(Would be interesting to see if teh Sun cable project had a look at it as well..)

Iberdrola Developing Its 1st Solar–Wind Hybrid Plant In Australia

October 10th, 2020 by Press Release


  • After the acquisition of Infigen, ground has been broken on its first renewable project in Australia, with 317 MW capacity and A$ 500 million investment
  • Around 200 jobs will be supported during construction until the project is commissioned in 2021
  • Pull effect on Spanish suppliers: Elecnor to build the plant’s transmission line and substation, as well as the storage areas and access roads

  • Iberdrola Developing Its 1st Solar–Wind Hybrid Plant In Australia

    After the acquisition of Infigen, ground has been broken on its first renewable project in Australia, with 317 MW capacity and A$ 500 million investment
    cleantechnica.com
 
BP is rethinking its future as a fossil fuel company.
This article highlights the pressure COVID has put on oil and gas prices.
Also worth noting that final paragraphs in this story. Essentially watch out for stranded assets in the current fuel sector

Looney said in May that the collapse in oil market prices triggered by the coronavirus meant he was “more convinced than ever” that BP’s low-carbon transition was necessary. The company took its first steps into the offshore wind market months later by taking a $1.1bn stake in two US offshore wind projects being developed by the Norwegian state oil company Equinor.

BP’s energy economists have said demand for oil may never recover after the pandemic, which has taken a heavy toll on transport industries, and may be on the brink of an unprecedented decades-long decline.

The company slashed the value of its oil assets this year to reflect its view that oil price forecasts would be below expectations as a result of the pandemic. The write-offs led to a net loss of $16.8bn in the second quarter, but in the absence of further writedowns BP reported a fifth consecutive net loss of $500m for the last quarter.

BP warns of volatile future for oil market as it returns to profit

Firm prepares to cut thousands of jobs worldwide as pandemic creates uncertainty
www.theguardian.com
 
Its a shame, they decided to shut down their solar manufacturing in Australia in 2008, they were actually the World leaders in solar panel design and development back then.
But they sent the manufacturing offshore, now we import the technology we owned, Trump was against this practice.
But as history will show, we are more influnced by media projection of character, than policies the person projects.
So as usual, we will end up with what we deserve.lol
Also before everyone gets out of shape paying out on the Libs, it was on Rudds watch, yes I know hard to believe when he is sprouting as usual.lol
Well that was before the latest stuff up, regarding his think tank, maybe that was the missing link 'thinking'. Lol
It seems to be a very common trait these days, dont think, let the media spoon feed you. Lol
 
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Looks like they are staying with plan A, keep Latrobe valley operational, lucky it is a Labor State or they would be getting trashed by the media. ?
The other thing I find interesting is, the Victorian Government has stated they will reduce their emissions 50% by 2030 and be emission zero by 2050, I guess they had better get a move on.
?

Nail in the coffin for coal, or welcome support for emissions limits? Power station review winds up

Environmentalists are hoping the review of Victoria's coal plants' operating conditions leads to pollution limits, but the industry says it could force them to close too soon.
www.abc.net.au

From the article:
Victoria's Environment Protection Authority (EPA) is set to conclude its review into the operating conditions for the state's coal-fired power stations, which could set pollution controls after three years of deliberations.
The EPA started the review into the operating licences for the three brown coal-fired power stations in the Latrobe Valley, east of Melbourne, in November 2017.

But after consulting the community and industry for much of 2018, there has been minimal update about the review since the EPA began drafting new licence conditions for the plants in June last year.

Environmental groups hope new licensing conditions include limits on how much the plants can pollute, while unions and the power stations fear the cost of additional pollution controls could make the plants unviable.

Supporters of the non-government group Environment Victoria recently sent the EPA overdue notices to mark 1,000 days since the licence review began .
"The three coal generators in the Latrobe Valley are responsible for 40 per cent of Victoria's greenhouse gas emissions between them, yet they're subject to no licence limits by the EPA," he said.

The Victorian mining and energy secretary for the Construction, Forestry, Maritime, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU), Geoff Dyke, said the EPA needed to be careful any new restrictions did not make the plants economically unviable.
 
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A good article on ABC fact check about how dirty gas is, when used for power generation. It also explains the different types of generators well.
The only criticism I would have is, the ABC's sympathetic summation "oversimplified', I would have said 'Cherry picked".

We fact checked Adam Bandt on whether gas is just as dirty as coal

Greens leader Adam Bandt has attacked the Government's plan for a gas-led recovery, claiming that gas is just as dirty as coal. Is he correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.
www.abc.net.au
From the article:

Dr Finkel referred Fact Check to the findings of the Scientific Inquiry into Hydraulic Fracturing that was commissioned by the Northern Territory Government.

It's final report found "the best gas-fired generation [combined-cycle gas turbines, CCGT] is approximately 60 per cent as emission intensive as the most efficient coal-fired plant (ultra-supercritical coal HELE generation) based on life cycle [greenhouse gas emissions]".

"Even including upstream emissions, gas is in all cases cleaner than coal," Dr Finkel told Fact Check in his email.

"Comparing the existing coal fleet to the existing CCGT natural gas fleet, gas-fired electricity generation [produces] less than half the emissions of coal-fired electricity generation."
Click to expand...
 
The most recent news on the Pilbara giant solar/ wind project, it looks as though it will be purely H2 production, as opposed to running an undersea cable.
I wonder if the reasoning will put a different light on the Newcastle Waters project, both will have huge implications for Australia's energy future.
https://www.watoday.com.au/business...ower-project-takes-shape-20201028-p569gh.html
From the article:

It sounds like a great idea: convert the Pilbara's beating sunshine and plentiful wind into electricity and send it directly into energy-hungry South East Asia via power cables along the seafloor.

But despite its promise, the minds behind one of the most ambitious power projects in the world have crunched the numbers and found the most economical way of transporting Northern Australia's green energy to the rest of the world is by boat.


Just days after the consortium behind the wind and solar Asian Renewable Energy Hub received environmental approval for the project it submitted a revised plan to the state regulator to replace the power cables with facilities to produce green hydrogen and export green ammonia on a scale never seen before.

With a footprint roughly 10 per cent of the size of Tasmania and a price tag of $US36 billion, the project could become the biggest green power project in the world if it gets the go-ahead.
 
Lucky us we, ( or Victorian's they're sort of like us), they just got a Bigger 'pineapple'; well a pineapple in the minds of some, notable for their verbiage that resembles fruit salad...
French outfit Neoen have inked a piddling $84million contract for a Tesla 3mega/W battery in Geelong, expect a ROI of circa 30% on past experince. Twice the capacity of SA's Hornsdale at a lower cost. Oh The beauty of cost curves.
It won't come in 100 days though as the SA example, more like 400+... appears there's demand out there for some forms of output..
This is all about 'keeping power prices low'. Though Isn't that someone at federal levels job???...But what a far better than a fracking good idea.

Victoria will be home to one of world's largest batteries

Victoria will be home to the largest battery in the southern hemisphere as part of a State Government push to transition to renewable energy.
thenewdaily.com.au
 
Victoria certainly has to start and do something, they are a major emitter and dont appear to be facilitating the deployment of renewables.
SA, NSW and Queensland appear to be much more proactive in their commitment. That SW corner of Aust really needs to beef up it HV transmission infrastructure.
 
orr said:
But what a far better than a fracking good idea.
Click to expand...
I’m not following the connection there.

In the Victorian context the majority of electricity is not produced from oil or gas and the vast majority of oil and gas consumed is not used at power stations.

No amount of batteries are of themselves an alternative to the vast majority of oil and gas used in Victoria. At best they help facilitate a future shift to electricity for heating and cooking which cuts gas and oil consumption (as would electric hot water and of course road vehicles but neither of those require stationary batteries since they are themselves storage devices).

I’m in favour of the new battery, just pointing out that there’s a very limited link between it in the Victorian context and oil and gas and the technologies used to extract them.
 
NSW appears to be becoming very proactive with coal replacement generation over the next 15 years, hopefully others follow the lead.

NSW launches emerging energy program to replace coal generation

NSW launches one of the most significant energy transition projects in Australia, with an Emerging Energy Program designed to help replace most of state’s ageing coal plants with wind, solar …
reneweconomy.com.au
From the article:

The New South Wales Coalition government on Wednesday launched one of the most significant energy transition projects in Australia, with an Emerging Energy Program that is designed to help replace most of the state’s ageing coal plants with wind, solar and storage over the next 15 years.

NSW is the only state in the National Electricity Market without a specific or aspirational renewable energy target. But in its recent Integrated System Plan, the Australian Energy Market Operator highlighted the fact that the state was facing the biggest transition, because most of its 10GW of coal-fired generators were getting to the end of their life.

Within 15 years, AEMO predicts, 70 per cent of that coal capacity will be gone – and it expects this to be replaced by large-scale solar, large-scale wind, storage, and rooftop solar, with the share of gas and hydro little changed from today’s level.



The NSW Emerging Energy Plan is designed to support the commercialisation of new large-scale projects in NSW that use emerging, dispatchable technology.

It is offering up to $10 million per project, for a total of $55 million. But it is not the scale of the initiative that is significant, it is the acceptance that the energy transition is profound, rapid and unstoppable.

“We are not seeking to accelerate the closure of coal-fired generators or delay their closure,” energy minister Don Harwin told RenewEconomy. “The transition is happening, this helps prepare us.”
 
In that earlier post ‘fracking’ should have been in Italics…that said;
Now I could be wrong…

But when I look out ten years to how new many vehicles being sold world are going to be electric? I see it as most. The dictates coming from Governments world wide aren’t pointing any other way.

Crush that as a principal and my argument falls mostly to dust.
and so; Vehicle to Grid VTG
If I’m correct; How much storage capacity is sitting in those vehicles that will have been manufactured and delivered 2030. And that ‘Latent’? capacity will just keep growing. Plus what continues at grid scale.
Currently we have situation where wholesale Electricity prices on more and more occasions goes negative due to excess renewable generation. No market for it. And thus the value proposition for grid scale Hornsdale and proposed Geelong, noting Geelong is a 50% price reduction on Hornsdale r.e. capacity… And that is a continuing cost curve.
Solar feed-in incentives, twice (2x a 100% better) existing current market deals to domestic participants are rolling out in the UK now curtesy of a tie up between Octopus Energy and Tesla. To the owners of Tesla products.

It’s my contention that Federal politics aided by Murdoch’s News Corp is a protection racket for fossil fuel interests, James Murdoch agrees on that subject. That's worked in Australia up until now...We can have a ‘Gas led Recovery’ Today, but the upgrade to Bass Link to accommodate pumped Hydro in Tas is some where off in post 2027? ffs!… There has been no national energy policy giving investment parameters since the day of Abbot’s election. No domestic Gas security on the east coast.
But the international political wind has just turned significantly, And I doubt that it will turn back.
For those with investments in carbon emitting extractive industry, the likes of say Mark Vaile(what position did he hold in Federal politics? ) now chairman of Whitehaven Coal, who’s share stake in the company has diminished from $7mill to $1.5( or was it $14m into $100k ) and last weeks write down by Exxon of $25 Billion on their Shale gas assets … In there may be a cautionary tale .

Paris commitments ??? Schmo is practicing a crab walk now…Today Saudi Arabia is our only like minded friend.

What does the scramble to sell into a shrinking mid term market Internationally look like? All your Petro States holding hands singing Khum-Biha…I’m lighting the joss sticks now….
Malcolm Turnbull's criticism of fracking expansion on the east coast was commercial; the cost of the product!…. the math is hard to argue with.

This next bit is a leap because it’s a thing people have never done before;
*Make money from their electricity connection
*Make money from their car sitting Idle in the garage
*Selling stuff that falls free on their roof
*Fuelling their car on sunlight

Will the people do it? I don’t know…. But I know what I’ll be doing.

Fortuitously this following YouTube went up a day or so back explaining some math and Technology(US centric). I don’t agree with some predictions included but broadly it’s pointing to where things are going; It’s a cheesy intro, start at around 3:30…try and last at least the next ten mins..
appreciate your effort Smurf…

 
I may be wrong but it appears from what I've read that the States have the major say in what happens to their electricity grid, as shown above with the NSW forward looking plan, the Federal Government own the Snowy and are currently expanding it and giving grants for the Tassie link and State based projects.

Victoria has committed to 0 carbon by 2050, but aren't doing much about it, S.A charged ahead and are well on their way, as stated NSW has committed to phasing out coal, Queensland is making major changes to the Northern HV grid to facilitate further expansion of renewables, W.A has no target but does that matter really I don't think so as long as the intent is there and is closing down coal as practicable..

It is all a bit like the bushfires issue, the Federal Government get the blame when it is a State function, yet when the Federal Government sticks its nose into a State issue like the virus and borders, the States tell the Federal Government to butt out.
Great to have a scape goat on the back burner, for when you need one, it's about time some grew up.lol
 
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FMG Annual Report highlights an exceptionally wide range of BIG renewable energy projects. Good investment opportunity and represents a corporate commitment to this field.

The Newcastle Waters project is one of their deals.

The renewable energy projects will firstly reduce to zero all the current costs associated with their Iron Ore projects venture. After that they are looking at exceptionally large export markets of Green hydrogen, H2 produced ammonia, green fertilisers.

https://cdn-api.markitdigital.com/apiman-gateway/ASX/asx-research/1.0/file/2924-02307419-6A1006704?access_token=83ff96335c2d45a094df02a206a39ff4
 
Woolworths to power all its operations with renewables by 2025.
This sort of investment by big consumers, similar to the Fortesque mining post by Bas, will accelerate the closing of coal generation IMO.

Green power: Woolies, Fortescue signal renewables shift

Australia’s largest retailer will power all its operations – including almost 3300 stores – with renewable energy by 2025, putting pressure on rival retailer Coles to follow suit.
www.smh.com.au
From the article:

Australia’s largest retailer, the Woolworths Group, will power all its operations – including almost 3300 stores – with renewable energy by 2025.

The company, which says it uses 1 per cent of Australia’s electricity, will get energy from sources such as wind and solar through power purchase agreements and will expand its use of rooftop solar panels, which are currently installed on 150 stores and provide about 13 per cent of those sites' energy needs.

Woolworths is Australia’s sixth-largest energy user. The top five are Rio Tinto, aluminium smelters Pechiney and Alcoa and gas producers QGC and Origin.
"We use around 1 per cent of Australia’s national electricity, so we have a unique opportunity to use our scale for good and make a real impact," he said.
 
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