The future of energy generation and storage

[basilio]

It's a big deal by Woolies. Fact is, it is simply a good business investment.

FMG initial investments in renewable energy will offer an excellent ROI simply in terms of savings on running costs. The reduction in energy costs from investments in solar panels and a lower power bill from buying renewable energy will improve Woolies bottom line.

 

[sptrawler]

It's a big deal by Woolies. Fact is, it is simply a good business investment.

FMG initial investments in renewable energy will offer an excellent ROI simply in terms of savings on running costs. The reduction in energy costs from investments in solar panels and a lower power bill from buying renewable energy will improve Woolies bottom line.

All new shopping centres should have covered parking with solar panels and battery storage to enable them to supply A/C and refrigeration load overnight. It isn't rocket science and if it is done at the design stage, the cost would be much less than retrofitting at a later date. Westfield, Stockland etc should be stepping and the way things are going, I'm sure they will.

 

[Value Collector]

It's a big deal by Woolies. Fact is, it is simply a good business investment.

FMG initial investments in renewable energy will offer an excellent ROI simply in terms of savings on running costs. The reduction in energy costs from investments in solar panels and a lower power bill from buying renewable energy will improve Woolies bottom line.

Woolies is also starting to install Ev chargers, my local Woolies now has 4 car charging bays.

 

[SirRumpole]

Woolies is also starting to install Ev chargers, my local Woolies now has 4 car charging bays.

What do you think of SA's plans to introduce a road use tax that will apply to EV's ?

"First in world:" South Australia to impose road user tax on electric vehicles

South Australia earns dubious honour of being first government in world to impose a road user tax on electric vehicles.

thedriven.io

 

[Value Collector]

What do you think of SA's plans to introduce a road use tax that will apply to EV's ?

"First in world:" South Australia to impose road user tax on electric vehicles

South Australia earns dubious honour of being first government in world to impose a road user tax on electric vehicles.

thedriven.io

I think its a bit premature, given all the benefits to EV's they should be encouraging take up of EV's and worrying about the road user tax later once there is more EV's on the road.

I mean the Tax is going to collect almost nothing at the moment because there is not many EV's to tax, but knowing that there is a tax on Ev's will probably cause people that are already confused about their costs to avoid them.

And as I have pointed out already they is so many ways that Ev's can save society money like reducing health care costs related to air pollution that I think its a bit short sighted to jump on one area of costs such as road maintenance.

Also as I pointed out earlier, EV owners already do pay more road maintenance through their council rates, car rego and luxury vehicle tax so its only the petrol levy they avoiding which as I said is offset by other factors.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think its a bit premature, given all the benefits to EV's they should be encouraging take up of EV's and worrying about the road user tax later once there is more EV's on the road.

I mean the Tax is going to collect almost nothing at the moment because there is not many EV's to tax, but knowing that there is a tax on Ev's will probably cause people that are already confused about their costs to avoid them.

And as I have pointed out already they is so many ways that Ev's can save society money like reducing health care costs related to air pollution that I think its a bit short sighted to jump on one area of costs such as road maintenance.

Also as I pointed out earlier, EV owners already do pay more road maintenance through their council rates, car rego and luxury vehicle tax so its only the petrol levy they avoiding which as I said is offset by other factors.

I don't disagree with what you said, but at least I'll give credit to the SA government for not fooling people into buying EV's for whatever reason then slugging them with a huge tax.

Point is that with large EV ownership governments will lose billions in revenue in fuel tax and it has to be made up somehow

 

[Value Collector]

Point is that with large EV ownership governments will lose billions in revenue in fuel tax and it has to be made up somehow

The government also spends Billions on healthcare related to air pollution, which ICE Vehicles are a major contributor too, maybe an air pollution tax is in order of the government needs more revenue.

I don’t think any EV owner is against contributing to roads provided it’s not a punitive tax, EVs would still be much cheaper to run, it’s just way to premature at a time when we should be encouraging.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't disagree with what you said, but at least I'll give credit to the SA government for not fooling people into buying EV's for whatever reason then slugging them with a huge tax.

Point is that with large EV ownership governments will lose billions in revenue in fuel tax and it has to be made up somehow

Do you think this should be in the electric car thread?
We did get that moved into the mainstream threads due to it being a new and relevant financial subject.

 

[Smurf1976]

All new shopping centres should have covered parking with solar panels and battery storage to enable them to supply A/C and refrigeration load overnight.

I’d argue that, in most circumstances, large scale solar / wind generation and pumped hydro storage leaves small scale and batteries for dead on both economic and environmental grounds.

Panels sitting just above ground level in an optimum location with a single axis tracker deliver a far more consistent output versus panels in urban areas without tracking thus reducing the need for storage.

The argument for small scale insted of large is essentially the same as the argument for trucks rather than freight trains. The latter wins if there’s a substantial scale involved which there is if we’re talking about the main grids.

 

[SirRumpole]

Do you think this should be in the electric car thread?

Yes.

 

[basilio]

Excellent overview of a suite of huge renewable energy projects that could transform Australias energy systems and international trade within the decade.
Some interesting investment opportunities here and a clear indication that renewable energy now trumps fossil fuel in the market place.

Green giants: the massive projects that could make Australia a clean energy superpower

The Asian Renewable Energy Hub would have an energy content equivalent to 40% of Australia’s overall electricity generation

www.theguardian.com

 

[sptrawler]

Excellent overview of a suite of huge renewable energy projects that could transform Australias energy systems and international trade within the decade.
Some interesting investment opportunities here and a clear indication that renewable energy now trumps fossil fuel in the market place.

Green giants: the massive projects that could make Australia a clean energy superpower

The Asian Renewable Energy Hub would have an energy content equivalent to 40% of Australia’s overall electricity generation

www.theguardian.com

Yes we have been talking about them on this thread for quite some time, Australia is accelerating the transition from fossil fuel to renewables, not only for itself but also for other countries by exporting green hydrogen.

 

[sptrawler]

I’d argue that, in most circumstances, large scale solar / wind generation and pumped hydro storage leaves small scale and batteries for dead on both economic and environmental grounds.

Panels sitting just above ground level in an optimum location with a single axis tracker deliver a far more consistent output versus panels in urban areas without tracking thus reducing the need for storage.

The argument for small scale insted of large is essentially the same as the argument for trucks rather than freight trains. The latter wins if there’s a substantial scale involved which there is if we’re talking about the main grids.

Fully agree smurf, I was thinking more in the context of shopping centers, they have huge car parks and roof area that if covered with panels could serve the dual purpose of car charging and powering the shopping center out of hours.
The shopping center footprints are huge and it would be easier to orientate the available space for solar radiation collection, at the design stage, rather than just a big concrete heat sink.
I wasn't thinking it could in any way compete with large scale renewables, but the installation would be a lot more efficient and cost effective than the equivalent output, from individual residential installations.

 

[sptrawler]

The two way vehicle to grid chargers are starting to gain momentum, this will be the game changer for electric cars IMO, as we have mentioned previously in this thread.

Smart grid technology to spark savings for electric vehicle owners

New technology to help bring down the cost of electric vehicle ownership is being rolled out to 300 households.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Selected electric car owners in NSW, Queensland and Victoria are taking part in a three-year, $8 million trial run by energy company AGL and ARENA
The batteries in electric vehicles can be hooked up to the grid through charging points. With smart technology, their stored power can be tapped to smooth peaks and troughs in electricity supply across the day and night.
The trial will investigate how electric vehicles can play a part in a smart network. For example, the network operator could pay a vehicle owner to use their battery as a power supply when it was hooked up to the grid in peak times, while ensuring the battery was charged with cheap power overnight.

AGL manager of decentralised energy Dominique Van Den Berg said the trial would provide insights on customer demand, such as when they connected cars to the grid or when batteries could be tapped to help supply peak demand.
"Although the trial is limited to 300 customers, it will help us to shape future energy offers to EV owners," Ms Van Den Berg said


The federal government is working on an electric cars policy that will focus on supporting electric cars through research and development into new technology.

"By trialling new charging technologies within the home, we will better understand the impact EVs could have on our networks and how to save consumers money as they charge," Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor said.

 

[sptrawler]

AGL to install 850MW of battery storage over the next four years.

AGL Liddell plant to be transformed into big battery

AGL Energy will turn its obsolete Liddell coal plant into a giant 500 MW battery as it transitions to renewable energy market.

www.leadingedgeenergy.com.au

From the article:

AGL Energy will turn its obsolete Hunter Valley Liddell coal generation plant into a giant 500 MW battery as it manages the transition to a renewable energy dominated electricity market.

AGL will install a total of 850 megawatts of big battery storage within the next four years.

AGL Energy will turn its obsolete Hunter Valley Liddell coal generation plant into a giant 500 MW battery as it manages the transition to a renewable energy dominated electricity market.

AGL will install a total of 850 megawatts of big battery storage within the next four years.

 

[Smurf1976]

AGL to install 850MW of battery storage over the next four years.

250 MW / ~1000 MWh going in SA at Torrens Island power station too.

The only gripe I have, is that for some rather strange reason the article you linked which is about batteries being installed at Liddell power station includes a great big photo of Bayswater power station which is neither closing nor having batteries installed. AGL does own it however.

To clarify the closure dates of existing related plant:

Liddell unit 4 closing in 1 April 2022.
Liddel units 1, 2 and 3 (and thus the entire power station) closing on 1 April 2023.
Liddel units were originally 500 MW each but are now de-rated to 420 MW. Fuel is coal.

Torrens Island A units 2 & 4 are now permanently closed and deregistered.
Torrens Island A unit 1 closure planned for 30 September 2021
Torrens Island A unit 3 (and thus the entire power station) closing on 30 September 2022.
Torrens Island A units are 120 MW each. Fuel was originally fuel oil later changed to natural gas.

Torrens Island B station, which is physically right next to A station, is not closing and has a nominal remaining life of ~15 years.

The above is all owned by AGL.

 

[sptrawler]

The only gripe I have, is that for some rather strange reason the article you linked which is about batteries being installed at Liddell power station includes a great big photo of Bayswater power station which is neither closing nor having batteries installed. AGL does own it however.

Well that is par for course with the media, when they want to bag coal fired power stations, they usually supply a photo of the cooling towers which as you know emit steam not smoke.
But as the chimney stacks have very little visible emission due to precipitators, there is more visual impact showing the steam, another example of fake news.
But all is fair in love and media, plus the loonies lap it up.

 

[sptrawler]

Another major solar/wind farm to built in W.A for hydrogen production, this time near Kalbarri in the mid west.
That makes about 30GW of new renewables proposed for W.A alone. As I said in the early stages of this boom, I hope we don't make the same mistake we did with natural gas and save some for ourselves.

Massive W.A. renewable hydrogen project signs up Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners

Plans for hydrogen production facility near Kalbarri, supplied by 5,000MW of solar and wind projects, wins backing of Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners.

reneweconomy.com.au

From the article:
Plans to develop a massive new renewable hydrogen production facility near Kalbarri in Western Australia, with up to 5,000MW of combined solar and wind projects to supply it, have won the backing of Denmark’s Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, or CIP.

Hydrogen Renewables Australia said on Monday that it had agreed to partner with CIP on the massive project, which is proposed for the Murchison House Station on the state’s mid-west coast – an area identified by engineering firm AECOM as a prime position for the co-location of wind and solar projects in Australia.

The goal of the project is to use these premium solar and wind energy resources, along with desalinated sea water, to produce renewable hydrogen for export to Asian markets, with an eye to Japan and Korea.

 

[sptrawler]

While on the subject of large scale renewables, Victoria looks like it may get a 2GW offshore wind farm.

Australia’s first offshore wind project moves forward with labour market study

Proponents of 2,200MW Star of the South project begin labour market study for first offshore wind farm in southern hemisphere.

reneweconomy.com.au

From the article:

Plans for Australia’s first offshore wind farm have taken a step forward, with the project developers launching a labour market study to identify the capability of the Australian market to deliver what would be one of Australia’s largest renewable energy projects.

The Star of the South wind farm, which is being pursued by the Danish fund management company Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners would be the first offshore wind farm in the southern hemisphere, requiring the first of its kind deployment of wind turbines off the Victorian coast.

The project proposed off the Gippsland coast in the south of Victoria has a planned capacity of up to 2,200MW and would be expected to produce roughly the same amount of energy each year as the now de-commissioned Hazelwood brown-coal power station.

 

[Smurf1976]

Looks like the Narrabri gas project is a goer:

Narrabri gas project clears final hurdle, work to begin in the new year

A controversial multi-billion-dollar coal seam gas project in north-west NSW, which has been touted to meet half the state's gas needs, has cleared its final hurdle and work will commence in 2021.

www.abc.net.au