The future of energy generation and storage

[SirRumpole]

Is that a 2017 in the corner of the clip?

Yes, he ridiculed the battery in 2017 because the Labor party were in then but now his lot are in in SA suddenly he thinks it's a great idea.

 

[Value Collector]

As an update on the situation in south-west Victoria and in SA:

*All load is being supplied business as usual. Nobody's in the dark, industry is running and so on. This SA + south-west Vic system represents approximately a one third increase on normal load in SA so combined with the electrical separation of SA from the other states, apart from via a low capacity DC link, is a very significant abruptly forced change.

*This power system is currently in a configuration for which there is zero prior operating experience but so far, so good. AEMO is continuing to monitor and evaluate the situation and may well make changes.

*Compared to normal the current configuration has unavoidable fragility in parts, has a reduced ability to meet peak demands, a restricted ability to utilise wind and solar generation, substantially higher operating costs and higher CO2 emissions. AEMO is looking to see if it can be improved but bottom line is that it was up and running within 3 hours of the unexpected incident on Friday and so far it's working.

*Best estimate is mid-February to return one of the two damaged transmission lines to service. Restoring one line will not resolve all the issues, there's a valid reason for having two, but it'll be a vast improvement on the current arrangement and at least partially resolves every aspect of the situation.

*More work will then follow to make permanent repairs and do the second line. No set date as yet but it's the sort of thing that won't be delayed any longer than it has to be.

*The Bureau of Meteorology has examined the situation and concluded that a "convective downburst" occurred. This is a weather phenomenon not an electrical one so I won't claim to know much about it other than that in layman's terms it means seriously strong wind occurred over a localised area and this wind is the almost certain cause of the towers falling over.

*Analysis thus far shows that a large volume of rooftop solar in SA temporarily shut down on Friday immediately following the incident and restarted later as system frequency returned to normal. This was the desired response, removing supply from the system following the loss of load (flow on the lines was at high levels SA into Vic when it occurred), and it's good to see that these systems worked as intended under a real major incident scenario.

There's a photo showing some of the damage here (link to Channel 10 news Twitter) :

Is Murrylink still operational?

 

[sptrawler]

Pretty much similar to Barnett Gov except for Metronet and a hand full of other issues thankfully no scandals from either governments, shezzas if only the federal government be 1/2 of a Barnett government instead of the over top BS politics played by this mob.

Absolutely, McGowan is doing what Barnett did, says nothing and just gets on with the job. Very little BS, plenty of action, the way Government should be IMO.

 

[Humid]

Collin Barnett (Coalition) also made the gas reservation conditions on the W.A gas discoveries, Alan Carpenter was the Labour Party Premier who introduced the policy.

Here is a old news article for you Rob, just to add a bit of balance, to cover your comment above, that I highlighted.
http://www.miningweekly.com/article...gas-reservation-policy-2016-04-12/rep_id:3650
From the article:
Speaking at the opening of the eighteenth liquefied natural gas (LNG) conference, in Perth, on Tuesday, Barnett noted that gas reservation had been in place in Western Australia since the 1980s, and had more recently been defined as an equivalent of 15% of LNG exports to be made available to the domestic market.

There you go Rob, maybe you can do a bit of checking.

The other interesting thing is Federal Labour didn't back Barnett when he pushed for onshore processing of the Browse Basin gas, so now we have a ship sitting 100klm offshore processing our gas and sending it away.

You might be confusing Woodside with Shell

 

[sptrawler]

You might be confusing Woodside with Shell

No I know they are two seperate gas issues, Allan Carpenter organised the first gas reserve issue with Woodside from memory, then Barnett set up the 15% reserve for the Chevron Barrow Island and Scarborough field in the Kimberly from memory.
I would have to read up on it all to get the exact scenario, but both Carpenter and Barnett, went against big business in the best interest of W.A.
Also because of the gas reserve policy, the coal is shutting down very quickly in W.A, which is becoming a bit of a political hot potato with Collie.
There are 4 large gas turbines at Kwinana, currently Stages A and C steam turbines are being demolished, one would guess another four gas turbines will be installed in their place.

 

[Smurf1976]

Is Murrylink still operational?

Yes - Murraylink (the DC link between Vic and SA) is still in normal operation.

For practical reasons it's running up to about 160 MW most of the time (capacity is 220 MW).

Flow has been in both directions but currently SA to Vic. If the wind stops or demand goes up (eg hot or cold weather) then it would be flowing in the other direction.

 

[Humid]

No I know they are two seperate gas issues, Allan Carpenter organised the first gas reserve issue with Woodside from memory, then Barnett set up the 15% reserve for the Chevron Barrow Island and Scarborough field in the Kimberly from memory.
I would have to read up on it all to get the exact scenario, but both Carpenter and Barnett, went against big business in the best interest of W.A.
Also because of the gas reserve policy, the coal is shutting down very quickly in W.A, which is becoming a bit of a political hot potato with Collie.
There are 4 large gas turbines at Kwinana, currently Stages A and C steam turbines are being demolished, one would guess another four gas turbines will be installed in their place.

Nah Carpenter introduced it in 2006 same policy nothing to do with your idol Col
The ship offshore is The Shell Prelude Woodside are bringing Browse through Karratha they didn’t want Cols James Price Point
The Prelude was underway before they abandoned James Price Point

 

[sptrawler]

You might be confusing Woodside with Shell

Actually if you want to go back even further, Charlie Court (Liberal) Premier organised the first gas installation in the late 1960's.
He signed the W.A Government up to a take or pay contract, for gas they couldn't use, then SECWA converted Kwinana power station over from oil fired to oil/gas fired so that some of the gas could be used.
So in reality it isn't which Party is in Power it is the quality and vision of those in the Party that dictate how well they do.
That is why I'm not rusted on anyone, IMO in recent history Federally neither Party has been endowed with good politicians, it is just IMO the Coalition has been the lesser of two evils.

 

[sptrawler]

Nah Carpenter introduced it in 2006 same policy nothing to do with your idol Col
The ship offshore is The Shell Prelude Woodside are bringing Browse through Karratha they didn’t want Cols James Price Point
The Prelude was underway before they abandoned James Price Point

Nah if you want to be pedantic, Carpenters reservation policy, was a copy of Charlie Courts.

Domestic gas reservation policy[edit]
In 2006, the state government announced a policy requiring that future developers of export gas projects set aside 15% of the reserves in each gas field for domestic use within the state.[35] This policy replicated the initial State Agreement for the North West Shelf Project, and was based on a perceived decline in the availability of gas from non-export developments.

 

[Humid]

Actually if you want to go back even further, Charlie Court (Liberal) Premier organised the first gas installation in the late 1960's.
He signed the W.A Government up to a take or pay contract, for gas they couldn't use, then SECWA converted Kwinana power station over from oil fired to oil/gas fired so that some of the gas could be used.
So in reality it isn't which Party is in Power it is the quality and vision of those in the Party that dictate how well they do.
That is why I'm not rusted on anyone, IMO in recent history Federally neither Party has been endowed with good politicians, it is just IMO the Coalition has been the lesser of two evils.

Only when it’s not your party is what you mean
Carpenter legislated it in 2006 end of story

 

[sptrawler]

Only when it’s not your party is what you mean
Carpenter legislated it in 2006 end of story

Yes however that didn't cover Gas in Commonwealth waters from memory. Barnett formalised the agreement with the Federal Government. You really need to lighten up comrade. Maybe a glass of rainex rust converter?

What happens if gas is processed offshore?
New developments in technology mean that:

• gas projects which previously had to be processed onshore can remain entirely in Commonwealth waters; and
• gas can be transported large distances through a subsea pipeline for downstream processing in other jurisdictions.

In these instances the WA Government has no formal ability to enforce the Domestic Gas Reservation Policy.
Premier Barnett has stated that the WA Government has approached the Commonwealth Government to include a domestic gas requirement as a condition for the grant or renewal of offshore petroleum leases in Commonwealth waters. It is so far unclear whether the Commonwealth Government is open to such a requirement.

 

[Humid]

Yes however that didn't cover Gas in Commonwealth waters from memory. Barnett formalised the agreement with the Federal Government. You really need to lighten up comrade. Maybe a glass of rainex rust converter?

What happens if gas is processed offshore?
New developments in technology mean that:

• gas projects which previously had to be processed onshore can remain entirely in Commonwealth waters; and
• gas can be transported large distances through a subsea pipeline for downstream processing in other jurisdictions.

In these instances the WA Government has no formal ability to enforce the Domestic Gas Reservation Policy.
Premier Barnett has stated that the WA Government has approached the Commonwealth Government to include a domestic gas requirement as a condition for the grant or renewal of offshore petroleum leases in Commonwealth waters. It is so far unclear whether the Commonwealth Government is open to such a requirement.

Have you got a link to that agreement
Just wondering how they get 15% of their gas here if it isn’t processed here

 

[sptrawler]

Have you got a link to that agreement
Just wondering how they get 15% of their gas here if it isn’t processed here

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....ate-gets-new-domestic-NWS-gas-commitment.aspx

Here is another Barnett article that is interesting, as IFocus says, we Barnett always had W.A at heart.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-28/colin-barnett-to-eastern-states-copy-wa-gas-policy/8311950

Allan Carpenter was a great Premier, it just shows there are some great reporters, he only stayed for a short period couldn't stomach the BS in politics. Top bloke, a man of principles IMO.

Getting back to the domestic reserve policy, what cracks me up is, the Federal Government is getting the blame for it when it is a State issue.
Some people are just weird.

 

[Humid]

It’s not like Woodside had an option it was legislated in 2006
Where’s the link to Cols commonwealth agreement?

 

[sptrawler]

It’s not like Woodside had an option it was legislated in 2006
Where’s the link to Cols commonwealth agreement?

Jeez talk about rusted on, you even said yourself, how could you reserve gas if it isn't processed onshore three posts ago. Just can't bring yourself to give any credit to anyone but Labour, you need to open up a bit, one side of politics doesn't have the monopoly on quality people, both sides have them.
Anyway back to the offshore gas, Barnett wouldn't let them develop it unless they agreed to his demands, a shame Eastern States didn't have the same attitude.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/wa-deal-lets-browse-project-process-lng-offshore/news-story/af0944896331e9002ed86c60b1987348&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

Also with regard the gas reservation policy, like I said Charlie Court started the reservation and it was formalised by Carpenter in 2006, but that was due to run out in 2020 when the last of the gas contracts was due to expire.
Barnett renegotiated an agreement in 2014, that included new gas fields, gas contracts and offshore processing, if you want any more info, look for it yourself it isn't that hard.
https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Hansard/hansard.nsf/0/7263acb6e65e387948257dc8000d9178/$FILE/A39 S1 20141126 p8830c-8832a.pdf

You know you can google the information yourself, while you're sitting in the donga.

On the same subject this is also why it is a State issue to reserve gas, they use it, the contract for gas reservation is between the supplier and the user.

 

[Humid]

Have you got a link to that agreement
Just wondering how they get 15% of their gas here if it isn’t processed here

So you obviously made this agreement up

 

[sptrawler]

So you obviously made this agreement up

Paragraph 6 in the Hansard report, you can use your fingers, if required.
You certainly are a strange person.
Been in the 'wet' canteen have you?

 

[Humid]

Jeez talk about rusted on, you even said yourself, how could you reserve gas if it isn't processed onshore three posts ago. Just can't bring yourself to give any credit to anyone but Labour, you need to open up a bit, one side of politics doesn't have the monopoly on quality people, both sides have them.
Anyway back to the offshore gas, Barnett wouldn't let them develop it unless they agreed to his demands, a shame Eastern States didn't have the same attitude.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/wa-deal-lets-browse-project-process-lng-offshore/news-story/af0944896331e9002ed86c60b1987348&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

Also with regard the gas reservation policy, like I said Charlie Court started the reservation and it was formalised by Carpenter in 2006, but that was due to run out in 2020 when the last of the gas contracts was due to expire.
Barnett renegotiated an agreement in 2014, that included new gas fields, gas contracts and offshore processing, if you want any more info, look for it yourself it isn't that hard.
https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Hansard/hansard.nsf/0/7263acb6e65e387948257dc8000d9178/$FILE/A39 S1 20141126 p8830c-8832a.pdf

You know you can google the information yourself, while you're sitting in the donga.

On the same subject this is also why it is a State issue to reserve gas, they use it, the contract for gas reservation is between the supplier and the user.

Jeez talk about rusted on, you even said yourself, how could you reserve gas if it isn't processed onshore three posts ago. Just can't bring yourself to give any credit to anyone but Labour, you need to open up a bit, one side of politics doesn't have the monopoly on quality people, both sides have them.
Anyway back to the offshore gas, Barnett wouldn't let them develop it unless they agreed to his demands, a shame Eastern States didn't have the same attitude.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/wa-deal-lets-browse-project-process-lng-offshore/news-story/af0944896331e9002ed86c60b1987348&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium

Also with regard the gas reservation policy, like I said Charlie Court started the reservation and it was formalised by Carpenter in 2006, but that was due to run out in 2020 when the last of the gas contracts was due to expire.
Barnett renegotiated an agreement in 2014, that included new gas fields, gas contracts and offshore processing, if you want any more info, look for it yourself it isn't that hard.
https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Hansard/hansard.nsf/0/7263acb6e65e387948257dc8000d9178/$FILE/A39 S1 20141126 p8830c-8832a.pdf

You know you can google the information yourself, while you're sitting in the donga.

On the same subject this is also why it is a State issue to reserve gas, they use it, the contract for gas reservation is between the supplier and the user.

There’s a paywall on you Link which means you obviously subscribe to it

Explains everything

 

[sptrawler]

There’s a paywall on you Link which means you obviously subscribe to it

Explains everything

No I don't subscribe, but if you open the link and wait 5 seconds, there will be a brief summary which explains the issue.
It must be lonely up there.
By the way, I don't subscribe to any newspaper or any other material, also don't watch the news, I read and gather information then work out the $hit from the clay. It would be great if everyone did it.

 

[Humid]

Paragraph 6 in the Hansard report, you can use your fingers, if required.
You certainly are a strange person.
Been in the 'wet' canteen have you?

Ffs
Do you understand the difference between the north west shelf and browse