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I would not agree that a house is a consumable. Certainly the population does not feel that way.

Land can also be considered a hedge against inflation because there is a limited amount of it.
 
I would not agree that a house is a consumable. Certainly the population does not feel that way.

Land can also be considered a hedge against inflation because there is a limited amount of it.

The value is in the land, hence the saying"buy the worst house in the best street".
Once a house is built it starts depreciating, initially it is someones dream but eventually it becomes dated and needs money spent on it.
If it wasn't a consumable they wouldn't end up being knocked over. Once the land value exceeds the value of retaining the house it becomes a liability as it becomes an added cost.
I remember purchasing a house and the real estate agent said "it's worth more than that, it has a house on it". I told him I would pay an extra $10,000 if they demolished the house.
Like Glen48 said houses are consumables.
 
Sorry when I said "house" what I really meant to say was "Real Estate". Yes improvements upon land are depreciating items. The value attributed to improvements upon land are not what we are talking about in this thread. If you want a brand new house you will pay the cost of construction plus reasonable profit to the builder, and once you purchase the improvement it will slowly depreciate.

We are really talking about land values here, or in the case of apartments "space" value. It is not a consumable, and it is a hedge against inflation.

In a way improvements are also a hedge against inflation, if there is inflation in the future the replacement cost of your improvements will increase giving you more current bang for your future buck.
 
Any thing is only worth what some one is prepared to pay for it. Would you buy a $10 M mansion in the middle of no where, would you buy a house if the prices are dropping 1% a month like they are in USA or Ireland where there are 130, 000 vacant houses and some thing similar in Spain.
There is plenty of land it is the development cost which is driven up by council fee's , rule's and stupid regulations to justify their council jobs.

Some countries have toll collectors not to help improve the road's but to pay the toll collectors wages.
Most look at a house how much they paid and how much they sold them for with out adding in bank fees, application fees, rates, insurance, time spent on repairs, cost of repairs, agents costs, being stuck in some place you can't leave if you wanted to, agree house's were a good punt but the bubble has popped move on to the next bubble PM's and wait until you see sign's in the corner store saying we buy PM's and then get out and look for the next bubble in about 10+ years.
I have owned 9 houses over 30 yrs and only made money on 1 when the easy money came around one went no where for 10 yrs and cost me $1500 a yr in rates etc, it was on the beach.
I also made money on a $2,500car which went to 200K in the easy credit bubble.
Never believe the RE agent's who say houses double every x yrs and all the other rubbish and ask them to prove it they can't.

The figures are all wrong, look up Money Morning and see what they have to say in today edition.
As the cops said in the movie " When a stranger Calls " get out of the house ir become one of Australia's biggest loosers.
 

The problem is your "improvements "are only improvements in your eyes, to someone else they may be just something else to knock over.
Also where you say apartment '" space" value, it is no different to a house. Eventually the apartment becomes dated and will be knocked over. It only has value while it is seen as a desirable "box"to live in or rent. Once it becomes dated it is just another apartment block that provides cheap housing.
Like was stated, it is land where the value is, unless you are on a riverina flood plain in Queensland.
Actually in your first paragraph you say improvements slowly depreciate.
Then in your last paragraph you say improvements are an edge against inflation.
I guess it will teach me to read more carefully before I wear my finger out with 1 finger typing, replying to contradictions.LOL
 


Improvements are the legal term for constructed buildings such as house, garage, shed, ect.

Improvements are a hedge against inflation in the same way that the purchase of any physical valuable item can be, if the depreciation of the item is less than forecast inflation.

For example if I was expecting high inflation over the next 5 years, perceivably the house I want could cost $250k today, but $300k in two years. However the depreciation to the value of the improvements is going to be negligible. In this case you would have hedged yourself against inflation, saving yourself 50k.

Also clearly apartment "space" value is a valid concept, the consumable proportion of your initial outlay is possibly larger than a house and land package but there is still a value there that is tied to the land value of the apartment block, a value that is tied very closely to the location of the apartment. Even if it becomes economical to knock down an old apartment building (after what, 40 years?) then as a strata title holder you are entitled to a percentage of the land the apartment building is built on.

Don't assume that the only thing you have to learn from others is when to save your finger from the fatigue of dosing out that high quality internet opinion of yours! :
 
I also made money on a $2,500car which went to 200K in the easy credit bubble.
Really? What were the details of the car and over what period of time did you make this profit?
 

Hey tabjockey, don't get out of shape.
What I am alluding to is, if you had a beach front block of land and you are "joe average", you would be wasting your money putting a house on it.
You would make more money by selling the vacant block to someone with a lot of money, that has a dream.
As far as the example of a house costing $250k today and costing $300k in 5 years. That is completely dependent on the market in 2008 brickies were getting $1.50 a brick at the moment they are struggling to get work.
Building companies as with all market linked companies charge what the market will pay.
If you and I won't pay $250,000 for that house the price will drop untill people will buy it. Then that drop in price will be past on as a hair cut to the brickie, grano, plasterer, glazier, brick supplier, cement supplier, tiler, roof carpenter etc.
With appartments, from my take, they have no capital gain value at all. They have a very small footprint i.e no land value. The only thing the landlord owns is the "air space"
and in a complex be it 10 units or 100 units it only takes 1 dissident to stuff up everyone elses good intentions. They are only a rental money stream and a shakey one at that.
My thoughts only from personal experience.LOL
 
Well I am talking from a more theoretical viewpoint, whereas you seem to be talking from a practical point of view.

You will find that apartments do have a significant capital gains profile.
 
Julia
The 70's Muscle cars were all the rage as the lad's who were 20 or so at the time could relive their youth with a cheap extension on their home loan as well as buying things they don't need to impress some one they didn't like with money they could not afford.
I car I had was a Ford 1970 XY GT Falcon new 2,500 XY GT Phase 111 new about 5,800 about 35 yrs later 200 to 250K and 1 Million $ for 111, Holden cars went up the same now worth about 50 K if you can find a buyer so it shows house prices didn't go up cheap money and first homers bribe drove up the prices nothing else most house's increase about 2 % PA on average.
The only way people make money on RE it is forced saving paying off the home loan but if you did the math's and added up the true cost you will find they are a dud.
Now all we have to do is pay for it all for the next 10- 15 yrs until the bad debt is written off.

Remember when USA bankesters were making million in bonus's it was because money was free and every one wanted to cash in on the ponzi scheme now they find the school kids who were signing the mortgage papers at $10 an hour and doing thousands a week and the banks putting the doc's in bundles and selling them to pension funds have lost track of who owns what property the bubble poped just like it is starting to do here now.
 

Totally agree with you, the housing market in Australia is a ponzi scheme that has gone on for far too long. Sometimes it’s hard to believe this ponzi kept going for as long as it did. It should have popped last time but a round of unprecedented stimulus forced a last gasp of air into the bubble.

All they did was kick the can down the road and now the collapse will be even worse. Posters on www.AustralianPropertyForum.com have been predicting this outcome for some time, and now the scale of this coming collapse will surprise the majority of commentators, in the same way the GFC surprised most economists.

Of course, there will be revisionists who will claim they predicted it all along but the truth is the majority of economists are blind optimists who couldn't see a coming train before it plows into them!

Awareness of the bubble is really seeping into the brains of the masses. IMO the biggest driver of house prices is sentiment, when consumers are confident they’ll bid up prices to crazy levels irrespective of fundamentals, but now the tides turning, panic is setting in and they’ll all run for the exits at the same time, especially the overleveraged speculators holding multiple “investment” properties.

I can smell the fear. It’s palpable on all the property forums where the desperate bulls and spruikers are frantically posting threads trying to disparage the bearish sentiment and message. For example...

APF threads - look how bearish the sentiment is right now

Well, I'm sorry bulls and spruikers but the party is over and you know it. No more endless capital gains, no more rents through the roof, no more easy credit, no more lo w interest rates, no more mass immigration. No more stimulus. Nothing left to keep in air in the bubble. The govt is out of ammo. The RBA wants the bubble to deflate. Bulls… you’re on your own.

If you sell now, you just might get out of this with your shirt!
 
So what's your solution for those who are trying to create wealth? Obviously not property. What are the alternatives and how do they stack up?
 
At any given time there is a bubble forming bit like mercury pull it apart and push it back together again and it continues to move around the Globe , the next bubble is Gold and Silver and the Asian markets maybe Green energy follow that until it looks like popping by then a new one will be forming some where. Look back at Enron, Dot com bubble . Just get out of RE at any cost before every one wakes up.
 
So what's your solution for those who are trying to create wealth? Obviously not property. What are the alternatives and how do they stack up?

Have a look at my posts in this thread https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7600

That's how easy it is to make 4.6% in less than a month...and lol its a property stock.

Lots of lower risk money making opportunity's in the stock market, in fact its only the individuals lack of understanding etc that limits the potential, of course returns are also limited by the individuals ability to throw money at those opportunity's.
 
I see that the Flogs on here have gone underground, whilst Aust. Property and Retail Market is crumbling around it. God help those First Home Owners in this crisis, they'll need a bailout just to get through this mess. The Government has blood on it's hands.
 
Well aware of this (although, arguably the "individuals ability to throw money at those opportunities" should be higher since the entry costs are far lower than direct property).

I was merely testing the waters to see if the guy above had any positive ideas (ie solutions) to go with his negative spiel. You know, something constructive that we don't already know?

BTW: I fit in the basket of not having enough money to throw at these short-term opportunities. I plan to build some passive income, by drip-feeding into longer term positions in the mean time.
 

Yes, I can recall a distinguished professor highlighting the scalps he had taken in this forum.


Can't remember his name, as not many posts from him nowadays.

Perhaps taking more shifts at work to make ends meet, or can only afford internet for the first 10 days of the month.

MW

Sunshine and lollipop (can only afford one lollipop with property performing so poorly)
 
There is allot of bearish sentiment around at the moment, but don't get too excited, property markets are still at very high price levels and not exactly "crashing" down in a traditional way.

The heat is leaving the markets but sadly if you look at the markets technically it looks more like a consolidation than a correction!

Real Estate is certainly set to have a flat nominal and negative real period and I will be watching for bargains on the way down, however most likely there are allot of people ahead in the queue willing to buy at higher prices than me!
 
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