The "do whatever you want" approach - how realistic is it?

[Trembling Hand]

I'm just questioning your assumption that it's within the capacity of every individual to come up with some magical life-satisfying dream which they are able to fulfil.

I'm not advocating for everyone to become the next Richard Branson or Cadel Evans. Though I do think that the,
go to school >
get Job>
get Married >
Retire >
Die
Model is the most bizarre use of your limited time. It leaves most people with so little energy that by the time they get to my age (41) they haven't got the get up and go to even think about taking risks or having a shot at their dreams. By the time they retire as per my folks their bodies are too clapped out to do anything productive for themselves. So then what??

 

[McLovin]

I'm not advocating for everyone to become the next Richard Branson or Cadel Evans. Though I do think that the,
go to school >
get Job>
get Married >
Retire >
Die
Model is the most bizarre use of your limited time. It leaves most people with so little energy that by the time they get to my age (41) they haven't got the get up and go to even think about taking risks or having a shot at their dreams. By the time they retire as per my folks their bodies are too clapped out to do anything productive for themselves. So then what??

From my anecdotal evidence, most people's dreams involve a variation on house paid off and two cars in the driveway. I think you overestimate the average person's dreams and ambitions. One thing I don't understand is that people want to save so that they're "wealthy" when/if they make it to retirement, ie once they've well and truly past the prime of their lives.

 

[burglar]

... by the time they get to my age (41) they haven't got the get up and go to even think about taking risks or having a shot at their dreams. ...

My get up and go, got up and went! (I was 45 at the time)

 

[chops_a_must]

My point wasn't your actual list, but rather to suggest that the population is made up of people with high intelligence, drive, imagination and capacity to succeed at whatever they choose, and those at the other end of the spectrum with virtually none of the above qualities. Most of us are probably somewhere in the middle.

I think that's pretty narrow.

Most of the happiest people I know are not the brightest. They just figure out what gets their rocks off.

From my anecdotal evidence, most people's dreams involve a variation on house paid off and two cars in the driveway. I think you overestimate the average person's dreams and ambitions. One thing I don't understand is that people want to save so that they're "wealthy" when/if they make it to retirement, ie once they've well and truly past the prime of their lives.

The problem is people don't know what they actually want or how to go about it.

The house and car and kids thing is a societal and capitalistic expectation that people then seem to think is the secret to their fulfillment and happiness.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I'm not advocating for everyone to become the next Richard Branson or Cadel Evans. Though I do think that the,
go to school >
get Job>
get Married >
Retire >
Die
Model is the most bizarre use of your limited time. It leaves most people with so little energy that by the time they get to my age (41) they haven't got the get up and go to even think about taking risks or having a shot at their dreams. By the time they retire as per my folks their bodies are too clapped out to do anything productive for themselves. So then what??

The research shows that relationships are far and away the biggest cause of happiness in individuals. So one might say that the more pleasant relationships you have, the happier you are. This is why people get married and have kids. And then to give kids some sort of stability, you don't tend to take massive risks with finances. You get a job and a mortgage. Every now and then you have a holiday. There's a very good reason why people follow this model. Happiness.

 

[CanOz]

It leaves most people with so little energy that by the time they get to my age (41)

I thought you were like early thirties!! I recall seeing a photo of you with a snowboard....then again maybe that was 5 years ago!! lol!

I think many people are caught into the debt trap and therefore fail to realise thier dreams, too busy keeping up with the Jones.

CanOz

 

[chops_a_must]

The research shows that relationships are far and away the biggest cause of happiness in individuals. So one might say that the more pleasant relationships you have, the happier you are. This is why people get married and have kids. And then to give kids some sort of stability, you don't tend to take massive risks with finances. You get a job and a mortgage. Every now and then you have a holiday. There's a very good reason why people follow this model. Happiness.

People have kids because they run out of things to do.

They get boring, and then make slightly more ugly versions of themselves for society to look after.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

People have kids because they run out of things to do.

They get boring, and then make slightly more ugly versions of themselves for society to look after.

LOL, yeh I guess there's a fair bit of that going on. Still, a good relationship will be a strong indicator of happiness. It's a rare person who can be happy without it. It's possible I think, but very rare.

 

[Trembling Hand]

People have kids because they run out of things to do.

They get boring, and then make slightly more ugly versions of themselves for society to look after.

Xactly - and bring up kids with the same boring out look on life.

 

[prawn_86]

Xactly - and bring up kids with the same boring out look on life.

Looks like i am stuck in that middle class trap also

 

[McLovin]

People have kids because they run out of things to do.

They get boring, and then make slightly more ugly versions of themselves for society to look after.

Dude, have you been on another coke bender? I like your frankness today.

 

[CanOz]

I think too that Men/Women are heavily influenced by the other partner in their life as well. Sometimes the dreams are in syc., but sometimes not and the marriage/relationship ends and both partners end up pursuing their dreams afterward...

CanOz

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I think too that Men/Women are heavily influenced by the other partner in their life as well. Sometimes the dreams are in syc., but sometimes not and the marriage/relationship ends and both partners end up pursuing their dreams afterward...

CanOz

Yeh sure, but that only happens if there's no love...which is common enough but not *yet* the majority.

 

[chops_a_must]

Dude, have you been on another coke bender? I like your frankness today.

Nah. Just too knackered to beat around the bush.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

from http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/thanks-mom/309287/

In June 2009, The Atlantic published a cover story on the Grant Study, one of the longest-running longitudinal studies of human development. The project, which began in 1938, has followed 268 Harvard undergraduate men for 75 years, measuring an astonishing range of psychological, anthropological, and physical traits””from personality type to IQ to drinking habits to family relationships to “hanging length of his scrotum”””in an effort to determine what factors contribute most strongly to human flourishing.

Recently, George Vaillant, who directed the study for more than three decades, published Triumphs of Experience, a summation of the insights the study has yielded. Among them: “Alcoholism is a disorder of great destructive power.” Alcoholism was the main cause of divorce between the Grant Study men and their wives; it was strongly correlated with neurosis and depression (which tended to follow alcohol abuse, rather than precede it); and””together with associated cigarette smoking””it was the single greatest contributor to their early morbidity and death. Above a certain level, intelligence doesn’t matter. There was no significant difference in maximum income earned by men with IQs in the 110–115 range and men with IQs higher than 150. Aging liberals have more sex. Political ideology had no bearing on life satisfaction””but the most-conservative men ceased sexual relations at an average age of 68, while the most-liberal men had active sex lives into their 80s. “I have consulted urologists about this,” Vaillant writes. “They have no idea why it might be so.”

But the factor Vaillant returns to most insistently is the powerful correlation between the warmth of your relationships and your health and happiness in old age. After The Atlantic’s 2009 article was published, critics questioned the strength of this correlation. Vaillant revisited the data he had been studying since the 1960s for his book, an experience that further convinced him that what matters most in life are relationships. For instance, the 58 men who scored highest on measurements of “warm relationships” earned an average of $141,000 a year more at their peak salaries (usually between ages 55 and 60) than the 31 men who scored lowest; the former were also three times more likely to have achieved professional success worthy of inclusion in Who’s Who. And, in a conclusion that surely would have pleased Freud, the findings suggest that the warmth of your relationship with Mommy matters long into adulthood. Specifically:

Men who had “warm” childhood relationships with their mothers earned an average of $87,000 more a year than men whose mothers were uncaring.
Men who had poor childhood relationships with their mothers were much more likely to develop dementia when old.
Late in their professional lives, the men’s boyhood relationships with their mothers””but not with their fathers””were associated with effectiveness at work.
On the other hand, warm childhood relations with fathers correlated with lower rates of adult anxiety, greater enjoyment of vacations, and increased “life satisfaction” at age 75””whereas the warmth of childhood relationships with mothers had no significant bearing on life satisfaction at 75.

Vaillant’s key takeaway, in his own words: “The seventy-five years and twenty million dollars expended on the Grant Study points … to astraightforward five-word conclusion: ‘Happiness is love. Full stop.’ ”

 

[So_Cynical]

Kids and the needs/expectations of others have a lot to do with lowering your own expectations, often happy wife, happy life means that your wants and desires have to wait or be modified...riding across Greenland has to be put on hold while you settle for a ride along the beach front once a month.

 

[chops_a_must]

Kids and the needs/expectations of others have a lot to do with lowering your own expectations, often happy wife, happy life means that your wants and desires have to wait or be modified...riding across Greenland has to be put on hold while you settle for a ride along the beach front once a month.

Sounds like you need to get your balls out of a vice to me.

Get your kids out with you.

As I say to my girlfriend, you can either complain about me playing golf and cricket every weekend, be involved, or find something to do.

Any relationship, whether it be a partner, kids or dog need to be a part of your life. Complementary, not an accessory. And the same is true in reverse.

 

[CanOz]

Any relationship, whether it be a partner, kids or dog need to be a part of your life. Complementary, not an accessory. And the same is true in reverse.

Yeah, its either in sync or its not gonna work and your dreams will suffer. If you both at least share the desire for each to realize ones dreams then you can support each other.


CanOz

 

[Trembling Hand]

the needs/expectations of others have a lot to do with lowering your own expectations,

Thats truly miserable.

 

[Julia]

From my anecdotal evidence, most people's dreams involve a variation on house paid off and two cars in the driveway. I think you overestimate the average person's dreams and ambitions.

This is close to the point I was trying to make.
To go back to the original post where it was suggested the choice was between a "short, happy life or a long miserable life", it's an unrealistic premise. Plenty of people live long and satisfying, contented lives in a framework that obviously some posters here would find miserably narrow. That's not to say any individual is right or wrong.
Personally, I couldn't think of anything less appealing than riding across any country, particularly one that's cold, but if TH gets satisfaction out of doing that, I doubt that anyone's going to question it.
So why question those whose ambitions are more prosaic, whose foundations for happiness are - as GB suggests - built on the giving and receiving of love, along with, perhaps, some modest material comforts.

Beats me why those with different aspirations should be supercilious about such modest aspirations.

The problem is people don't know what they actually want or how to go about it.

Agree. Because they haven't been raised in an environment of expectation for anything greater than that from which they came. Let's not denigrate them for that.

The house and car and kids thing is a societal and capitalistic expectation that people then seem to think is the secret to their fulfillment and happiness.

And for some of them it may well be. Why do we have to mock them for such modest aspirations?

The research shows that relationships are far and away the biggest cause of happiness in individuals. So one might say that the more pleasant relationships you have, the happier you are. This is why people get married and have kids. And then to give kids some sort of stability, you don't tend to take massive risks with finances. You get a job and a mortgage. Every now and then you have a holiday. There's a very good reason why people follow this model. Happiness.

People have kids because they run out of things to do.

They get boring, and then make slightly more ugly versions of themselves for society to look after.

What a poisonous and inaccurate view of people whose choices might differ from yours.
For sure, a few people will drift inappropriately into parenthood, but the majority of people think carefully before reproducing and do a pretty reasonable job of it.

There's an extraordinary exhibition from a few on this thread of an attitude of complete superiority over their fellow human beings. We are not all born with the same genes, and are not all raised with good modelling.
Given all of the difficulties many people face, imo there's plenty of strength of character in the ordinary, average person, despite their apparently woeful lack of purpose when it comes to completing feats of extraordinary endeavour.