Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The Consumer Thread

yeah - about as public as the goings-on in Nauru and other places of "National Security" :1zhelp:
Lawyers! Who needs them! :eek:

Agreed, but there is still the principle that independent countries should be able to make their own internal laws without international busybodies sticking their noses in.
 
Melbourne Uber driver beats fine in landmark case effectively legalising service in Victoria

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-...er-wins-appeal-for-operating-in-state/7425116

This simply highlights another example of the perils of "Big Government".
You simply cannot regulate every facet of public life! Trying to do so will only lead to more bureaucracy, red tape and restrictions that do not contribute anything but higher taxes and charges.

Uber drivers simply prove how much cheaper a "taxi service" could be if Big Government didn't syphon-off hundreds of thousands of Dollars for special licenses, which are then traded even higher by profiteers. If two adults consent to share a drive from A to B in whose car, what more is there to "regulate"?

The only dispute that could possibly concern the Government would arise if one party comes to grief. But we already have laws and procedures covering both criminal and accidental damage. Taking sexual assault or robbery as examples, it should make no difference whether the crime is committed in someone's home or car, nor whether the victim was a friend, relative, or client of the perpetrator.
But Lawyers thrive on artificial differentiation, and our parliaments are dominated by them. Therefore it's unlikely that common sense will ever prevail.
 
This simply highlights another example of the perils of "Big Government".
You simply cannot regulate every facet of public life! Trying to do so will only lead to more bureaucracy, red tape and restrictions that do not contribute anything but higher taxes and charges.

Uber drivers simply prove how much cheaper a "taxi service" could be if Big Government didn't syphon-off hundreds of thousands of Dollars for special licenses, which are then traded even higher by profiteers. If two adults consent to share a drive from A to B in whose car, what more is there to "regulate"?

The only dispute that could possibly concern the Government would arise if one party comes to grief. But we already have laws and procedures covering both criminal and accidental damage. Taking sexual assault or robbery as examples, it should make no difference whether the crime is committed in someone's home or car, nor whether the victim was a friend, relative, or client of the perpetrator.
But Lawyers thrive on artificial differentiation, and our parliaments are dominated by them. Therefore it's unlikely that common sense will ever prevail.

I completely agree.

There are areas where government regulation is necessary to prevent rip-offs, but Uber doesn't appear to be one as far as I can see. I think the consumers are capable of deciding for themselves which service they prefer, all you need to know is whether you got a good deal.
 
Couldn't agree more.

ACCC boss says privatisation costing consumers and damaging economic reform

The whole idea of asset sales is that the private sector can run them more cheaply than the public sector.

That's a theory that isn't always borne out in practice.

The public sector has its productivity downsides but it also does have its good points and they tend to be overlooked in neo-liberal economic thinking which promotes privatisation as the answer to everything.

Public sector - tends to do things properly in terms of the actual physical things being done. Downside is the "cant get sacked" aspect which leads to some "problem" employees if the relevant department isn't well run. Some departments are run well in that regard but others aren't.

Private sector - tends to work efficiently as such (not always) but is often doing things that are fundamentally inefficient to start with because that's the best way to make a profit through generating future work.

Been there, seen both and in my opinion there's good and bad points in both but it was never true that private could always do it cheaper.

A public servant doing physical work is motivated to do it right so that they don't have to do it again. They get paid the same regardless so may as well get it right rather than having to come back.

Private sector makes more profit if the work lasts 5 years instead of 10. That way they get to come back twice as often, doing each job at 20% less than if public, but the end result is it costs 60% more over the long term (figures are hypothetical but are order of magnitude correct in my experience).

Then there's that old trick of pushing the costs up. Private operator approaches government with a promise of huge savings, say 50%. Whatever it is then gets privatised. Then the private operator waits a year or two and starts ratcheting up the prices. A decade later the price is higher than where it started but work that used to last 20 years now lasts half that time at best because they did everything at the lowest possible cost in the short term in order to maximise profit.

With the "in house" experience long gone, government now has no choice other than to keep handing your taxes over to the private "provider" of the service no matter what the cost. And don't kid yourself that competition will keep prices down. Sometimes yes, but it's hard to keep the quality up and if it's something specialised then in practice it ends up with at most two or three private suppliers and they're not going to send each other broke that's for sure. Easy money!

The supposedly "inefficient" state-run utilities gave Australia the third cheapest electricity in the OECD, beaten only by Canada and NZ with their large hydro resources. Now Australia is among the most expensive places on earth when it comes to power and there's more cost rises to come. That's the wonders of competition and privatisation for you right there and it hasn't worked. Theory says it works, practice says it's a disaster that has undermined our entire economic competitiveness.

Don't even mention gas, that's probably the biggest blunder I'll see in my lifetime. A key competitive advantage completely thrown away and the private operators aren't even making much profit in doing so. Incredible. :2twocents
 
The Newman Govt in QLD was appalling in the way it thumped residents with an electricity upward spiral ... the current crowd have had to resort to amalgamation and forced reduction in infrastructure spend on electrical distribution to slow the trajectory. I remember the days of Joh, sure QLD was like a 2nd world country, but electricity was $2/3 of others cheap, water was free, petrol was cheap, hospital treatment was free, weekends were for people and beaches not for retail barons, cops by and large minded their own lucrative business and left the roads to drivers, .....and there were lots of native bears which are now almost extinct.
 
That's a theory that isn't always borne out in practice.

The public sector has its productivity downsides but it also does have its good points and they tend to be overlooked in neo-liberal economic thinking which promotes privatisation as the answer to everything.

Public sector - tends to do things properly in terms of the actual physical things being done. Downside is the "cant get sacked" aspect which leads to some "problem" employees if the relevant department isn't well run. Some departments are run well in that regard but others aren't.

Private sector - tends to work efficiently as such (not always) but is often doing things that are fundamentally inefficient to start with because that's the best way to make a profit through generating future work.

Been there, seen both and in my opinion there's good and bad points in both but it was never true that private could always do it cheaper.

A public servant doing physical work is motivated to do it right so that they don't have to do it again. They get paid the same regardless so may as well get it right rather than having to come back.

Private sector makes more profit if the work lasts 5 years instead of 10. That way they get to come back twice as often, doing each job at 20% less than if public, but the end result is it costs 60% more over the long term (figures are hypothetical but are order of magnitude correct in my experience).

Then there's that old trick of pushing the costs up. Private operator approaches government with a promise of huge savings, say 50%. Whatever it is then gets privatised. Then the private operator waits a year or two and starts ratcheting up the prices. A decade later the price is higher than where it started but work that used to last 20 years now lasts half that time at best because they did everything at the lowest possible cost in the short term in order to maximise profit.

With the "in house" experience long gone, government now has no choice other than to keep handing your taxes over to the private "provider" of the service no matter what the cost. And don't kid yourself that competition will keep prices down. Sometimes yes, but it's hard to keep the quality up and if it's something specialised then in practice it ends up with at most two or three private suppliers and they're not going to send each other broke that's for sure. Easy money!

The supposedly "inefficient" state-run utilities gave Australia the third cheapest electricity in the OECD, beaten only by Canada and NZ with their large hydro resources. Now Australia is among the most expensive places on earth when it comes to power and there's more cost rises to come. That's the wonders of competition and privatisation for you right there and it hasn't worked. Theory says it works, practice says it's a disaster that has undermined our entire economic competitiveness.

Don't even mention gas, that's probably the biggest blunder I'll see in my lifetime. A key competitive advantage completely thrown away and the private operators aren't even making much profit in doing so. Incredible. :2twocents

:xyxthumbs
 
How airlines are ripping us off

Australia's domestic airlines ripping consumers off, Choice says
By Lily Mayers

Consumer group Choice has listed six ways it believes Australia's domestic airlines have been ripping off their passengers and has called on the consumer watchdog to intervene.

Choice said it had identified "systemic breaches" of the Australian consumer law and called on the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) to launch action.

So, what sort of things are airlines doing that has Choice so upset?
1. No refund policy

Three out of four major domestic airlines have a blanket no refund policy, contradicting consumer law that gives everyone the right to a refund, the group said.

It is a practice Choice director of campaigns and communications Matt Levey said had gone unchecked for too long.

"We often see other businesses in other industries held to task for exactly these sorts of practices; it's time that airlines cleaned up their act," he said.

2. Exorbitant cancellation fees

Airlines are charging cancellation fees of up to 100 per cent of the ticket, or up to $550 per ticket.

However, Matt Levey said changing airline fees, such as excessive credit card surcharges, was more difficult than in other industries.

"Even in recent days we've seen Jetstar reluctantly remove the pre-ticked boxes from its booking process," he said.

"They [the airlines] are not responsive to consumer needs in the way that other industries are."

3. No accountability

Customers are not being offered any compensation for having their flights cancelled or delayed.

Choice said its investigation found Australians were not being offered fixed compensation if their flight was cancelled or delayed within the airline's control.
4. Zero responsibility

Airlines are dodging responsibility to deliver flights on time despite charging premium prices for peak flight times.
5. No access to credit

Passengers who are given credit on future flights are not being given access to the credit, Choice says.
6. Ticket voids

People who miss a leg of a flight are having multiple tickets voided.

Matt Levey said these cancellations had been banned in other countries, such as Germany and Spain.

He said airlines could act immediately without any action by the ACCC.

"So it's not all about the regulator getting involved. If the airlines wanted to actually start treating their customers better they could get rid of the blanket no refund sign," he said.

"They could make their terms and conditions way clearer and simpler to read, they could clearly communicate their cancellation fees and actually reduce them to reasonable levels that reflected the cost of reselling that flight."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-...nes-ripping-off-customers-choice-says/8095010
 
Buyer beware or lack of regulation ?

Aviation expert warns travellers to think twice before booking with "budget" airlines.

I'm sure most travellers think that if an airline is allowed to fly it is therefore safe, but apparently not so.

Are the regulators falling down on the job ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-...-rethink-on-budget-air-travel-airasia/8653278

The airlines are not in the maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) business and tend to outsource as much of it as they can. MRO is broken down into heavy maintenance, engines, components and line maintenance.

Unfortunately Australia seems to be shy when it comes to gearing up as an outsource destination, so companies like HAECO in Hong Kong cleanup

I would hazard a guess that AirAsia is not unlike Qantas and exposed to the same quality of condition monitoring and prescribed maintenance task, by the same suite of providers.
 
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