The Conspiracy Theory thread

[basilio]

Amen. I'm glad you're on board and excited for Trump Presidency II

Indeed Moxjo. I think Presidency of BridgeWater State Hospital J Ward would be a fitting reward for Don.
Alternatively a long stay in a more conventional jail for his numerous frauds, abuse of office, corruption, assault charges could also be arranged.

 

[macca]

Indeed Moxjo. I think Presidency of BridgeWater State Hospital J Ward would be a fitting reward for Don.
Alternatively a long stay in a more conventional jail for his numerous frauds, abuse of office, corruption, assault charges could also be arranged.

I am Ok with that as long as Mr Biden and his son are in there with him

 

[basilio]

From my POV the spread of the poisonous insanity of Q Anon has become profound. Every person I speak with can tell me stories of friends and family who have gone down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

This article is an except from a book which explores how this has happened in Australia.

QAnon: how the far-right cult took Australians down a ‘rabbit hole’ of extremism​

Conspiracy theories have taken root in Australia, but it doesn’t impact just the converts. For every new believer, there are the friends and family who they’ve shut out

A sign featuring a QAnon conspiracy theory slogan during an anti-vaccination rally in Melbourne in February. Photograph: Erik Anderson/AAP

Van Badham

@vanbadham
Sun 14 Nov 2021 06.00 AEDT
Last modified on Sun 14 Nov 2021 06.11 AEDT

Cam Smith, an Australian researcher who monitors online far-right activity, had first noticed mention of QAnon in the local communities he watched as early as 2018. At the time, it looked like just a few “tiny meetup groups on Facebook” of around 20 people, he told me. “They were talking about, ‘Oh, we’ll meet up at like some pub in Oakleigh, and we’ll talk about this QAnon thing.’ And I didn’t think it was going to be that important.”

Smith’s interest in the local movement was sparked again during the periods of heavy coronavirus public health restrictions in Melbourne, in 2020. To contain an outbreak of the virus within Melbourne’s public housing high-rise towers, local authorities had moved quickly – and controversially – to unilaterally lock down the residential communities in the buildings. In defiance of the restrictions, a group of QAnon believers drove nearly 2,000km from Queensland to protest against the events, filming themselves – and expounding their theories – as they went.

After the US, Britain and Canada, Australia was the fourth largest producer of QAnon content worldwide

Smith was curious, found a way into their Facebook groups and started tracking their conversations. What he noticed was that Facebook’s algorithm was assisting the spread of disturbing content. Smith found that even engagements with Australian Facebook groups that represented softer political positions – like a small anti-vaccine community – quickly pushed him towards extremist content. “The Facebook algorithm was like, ‘I know some other stuff you would be interested in!’” Smith says, and it drove users within Australia’s shallow Facebook pool towards political content that was much more hardcore.

As had happened in Germany, QAnon seeded its Australian iteration through the networks of the wellness community. It was a bourgeois place in which those fearful of “precarity” came to seek comfort. Community values here lay in promoting opportunities for personal healing through “clean eating” and radical diets, alternative medicine, meditation, yoga and new age beliefs. It was also a place where anti-vax conspiracy theories had lurked for some time, and, as the pandemic progressed, became a ripe channel – online and off – for QAnon influence. A personal friend described to me how her first encounter with QAnon belief in Australia resulted from a “rabbit hole” opening for her on Facebook while she searched recommendations of organic food for her dog.

QAnon: how the far-right cult took Australians down a ‘rabbit hole’ of extremism

Conspiracy theories have taken root in Australia, but it doesn’t impact just the converts. For every new believer, there are the friends and family who they’ve shut out

www.theguardian.com

 

[moXJO]

From my POV the spread of the poisonous insanity of Q Anon has become profound. Every person I speak with can tell me stories of friends and family who have gone down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

This article is an except from a book which explores how this has happened in Australia.

QAnon: how the far-right cult took Australians down a ‘rabbit hole’ of extremism​

Conspiracy theories have taken root in Australia, but it doesn’t impact just the converts. For every new believer, there are the friends and family who they’ve shut out
View attachment 132894
A sign featuring a QAnon conspiracy theory slogan during an anti-vaccination rally in Melbourne in February. Photograph: Erik Anderson/AAP

View attachment 132895
Van Badham

@vanbadham
Sun 14 Nov 2021 06.00 AEDT
Last modified on Sun 14 Nov 2021 06.11 AEDT

Cam Smith, an Australian researcher who monitors online far-right activity, had first noticed mention of QAnon in the local communities he watched as early as 2018. At the time, it looked like just a few “tiny meetup groups on Facebook” of around 20 people, he told me. “They were talking about, ‘Oh, we’ll meet up at like some pub in Oakleigh, and we’ll talk about this QAnon thing.’ And I didn’t think it was going to be that important.”

Smith’s interest in the local movement was sparked again during the periods of heavy coronavirus public health restrictions in Melbourne, in 2020. To contain an outbreak of the virus within Melbourne’s public housing high-rise towers, local authorities had moved quickly – and controversially – to unilaterally lock down the residential communities in the buildings. In defiance of the restrictions, a group of QAnon believers drove nearly 2,000km from Queensland to protest against the events, filming themselves – and expounding their theories – as they went.



Smith was curious, found a way into their Facebook groups and started tracking their conversations. What he noticed was that Facebook’s algorithm was assisting the spread of disturbing content. Smith found that even engagements with Australian Facebook groups that represented softer political positions – like a small anti-vaccine community – quickly pushed him towards extremist content. “The Facebook algorithm was like, ‘I know some other stuff you would be interested in!’” Smith says, and it drove users within Australia’s shallow Facebook pool towards political content that was much more hardcore.

As had happened in Germany, QAnon seeded its Australian iteration through the networks of the wellness community. It was a bourgeois place in which those fearful of “precarity” came to seek comfort. Community values here lay in promoting opportunities for personal healing through “clean eating” and radical diets, alternative medicine, meditation, yoga and new age beliefs. It was also a place where anti-vax conspiracy theories had lurked for some time, and, as the pandemic progressed, became a ripe channel – online and off – for QAnon influence. A personal friend described to me how her first encounter with QAnon belief in Australia resulted from a “rabbit hole” opening for her on Facebook while she searched recommendations of organic food for her dog.

QAnon: how the far-right cult took Australians down a ‘rabbit hole’ of extremism

Conspiracy theories have taken root in Australia, but it doesn’t impact just the converts. For every new believer, there are the friends and family who they’ve shut out

www.theguardian.com

I don't think this is typical right vs left stuff. A righty isn't buying "organic dog food". Considering it's from that twit badham, I'd give it even less credibility.

A lot of the people from the Central Coast are caught up in it. A friend's wife actually committed suicide after she was allegedly refused a necessary operation because she wasn't and didn't want to be vaxed. They are far from the right.

It's people that are anti government.

Here's the problem:
Government lies, woke lies, coupled with media lies is a lot more noticeable. That's what left the door open for conspiracy theories.

 

[wayneL]

I don't think this is typical right vs left stuff. A righty isn't buying "organic dog food". Considering it's from that twit badham, I'd give it even less credibility.

A lot of the people from the Central Coast are caught up in it. A friend's wife actually committed suicide after she was allegedly refused a necessary operation because she wasn't and didn't want to be vaxed. They are far from the right.

It's people that are anti government.

Here's the problem:
Government lies, woke lies, coupled with media lies is a lot more noticeable. That's what left the door open for conspiracy theories.

Wait.... Wut?

Refused an operation because unvaxxed?

We have officially entered the Twilight Zone, for real.

 

[basilio]

I don't think this is typical right vs left stuff. A righty isn't buying "organic dog food". Considering it's from that twit badham, I'd give it even less credibility.

A lot of the people from the Central Coast are caught up in it. A friend's wife actually committed suicide after she was allegedly refused a necessary operation because she wasn't and didn't want to be vaxed. They are far from the right.

It's people that are anti government.

Here's the problem:
Government lies, woke lies, coupled with media lies is a lot more noticeable. That's what left the door open for conspiracy theories.

I never suggested this was "Right vs Left stuff" . If you read the article you would have quickly recognised that.
Trashing Van Badham for her story is just rubbish. It does not change one iota of what she has seen. It also doesn't change the analysis of how Q Anon poison has been amplified and spread throughout FaceBook and the Net.

I'm sure there are grey areas and some legitimate uncertainty around how we deal with COVID. In fact if one goes to historical sources we can see some strong concerns about vaccination when earlier diseases were being treated. But in this case the rejection of reality and the creation of the wildest conspiracy ideas around causes of the outbreak and treatment is really concerning.

 

[mullokintyre]

I never suggested this was "Right vs Left stuff" . If you read the article you would have quickly recognised that.
Trashing Van Badham for her story is just rubbish. It does not change one iota of what she has seen. It also doesn't change the analysis of how Q Anon poison has been amplified and spread throughout FaceBook and the Net.

I'm sure there are grey areas and some legitimate uncertainty around how we deal with COVID. In fact if one goes to historical sources we can see some strong concerns about vaccination when earlier diseases were being treated. But in this case the rejection of reality and the creation of the wildest conspiracy ideas around causes of the outbreak and treatment is really concerning.

"Trashing Van Badham".
Hmm, it seems a common theme here.
We have sources we believe, and we have sources that we do not believe under any circumstances.
It's not so much right versus left, its "what i believe in versus everyone else who is wrong".
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

"Trashing Van Badham".
Hmm, it seems a common theme here.
We have sources we believe, and we have sources that we do not believe under any circumstances.
It's not so much right versus left, its "what i believe in versus everyone else who is wrong".
Mick

That Mick IMO is the whole problem, some people have lost the ability to be objective and rationalise what they read or hear, now they just have black and white, right and wrong, the ability to analyse an issue has gone.

 

[basilio]

We have sources we believe, and we have sources that we do not believe under any circumstances.
It's not so much right versus left, its "what i believe in versus everyone else who is wrong".

Let's not get too rigid. I can see plenty of grey in the world and I can also recognise that with so many potential stories around, the selection of what to print and highlight can shape peoples view of the world.

But going beyond the grey, there is also in my mind, black. Not simply different reporting but misleading, distorting and sometimes unintended or deliberate lies. When I see that sort of stuff then I won't believe anything from that source unless there is other evidence that backs up the statement.

For example IMV Andrew Bolt is one of the most deceptive writers in Australia. I know enough about many of the topics he talks about to recognise just how misleading and dishonest his work is. So he and the publication that actively supports him are ones I don't trust without further evidence.

 

[wayneL]

That Mick IMO is the whole problem, some people have lost the ability to be objective and rationalise what they read or hear, now they just have black and white, right and wrong, the ability to analyse an issue has gone.

Nowhere is that clearer than in the current Rittenhouse trial, and commentary about it.

 

[sptrawler]

Let's not get too rigid. I can see plenty of grey in the world and I can also recognise that with so many potential stories around, the selection of what to print and highlight can shape peoples view of the world.

But going beyond the grey, there is also in my mind, black. Not simply different reporting but misleading, distorting and sometimes unintended or deliberate lies. When I see that sort of stuff then I won't believe anything from that source unless there is other evidence that backs up the statement.

For example IMV Andrew Bolt is one of the most deceptive writers in Australia. I know enough about many of the topics he talks about to recognise just how misleading and dishonest his work is. So he and the publication that actively supports him are ones I don't trust without further evidence.

Bas you really don't see grey and that isn't a criticism, it is just the way you come, embrace it.

I posted this in the CC thread and it really does IMO highlight the problem, that the media has lost its ability to be objective and questioning, on issues that may cause them to lose those who subscribe to their tabloids.
The one thing they will know for sure, is what demographic is buying what they are selling and the post wasn't in any way meant to demean or devalue the fact climate change is happening.
It just highlights it isn't an exact science.

Yet how many times are politicians pulled up, on things not turning out exactly to the letter, on what they said, predicted or indeed speculated?

Ten years is a long time in global warming, the science is in somewhat, things are changing whether anyone can accurately predict what will happen, is another issue .
I guess it does prove it is o.k to be completely off the mark, if you are a scientist, but if you are a politician well god help you if you make a slip up.
No one disagrees with global warming, but only some are allowed the luxury, of claiming to have all the answers, without the resulting public shaming if they are proven slightly off the mark.

The post isn't about global warming, but about the amount of rope some people are given, when they are in synch with the narrative.

Landline - 11/02/2007: Interview with Professor Tim Flannery . Australian Broadcasting Corp

From the article:
First Published: 11/02/2007

SALLY SARA: Well, making good use of water is one of the subjects of this week's interview. Professor Tim Flannery has warned climate change will impact on Australia to the point where Sydney can expect to receive 60 per cent less rainfall than it does at present. If that's the case, what about the bush? What can Australian farmers expect as weather patterns alter? I spoke with Professor Tim Flannery about climate change, water and the intriguing subject of carbon trading. Professor Flannery, congratulations firstly on being named as Australian of the Year.

PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: Thank you very much.

SALLY SARA: What will it mean for Australian farmers if the predictions of climate change are correct and little is done to stop it? What will that mean for a farmer?

PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: We're already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we're getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that's translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That's because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that's a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we're going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.


November 2021:

Forbes residents told to prepare for flooding as deluge swells river to more than 10 metres

Rain keeps pouring and floods worsen for parts of New South Wales, threatening similar levels to the disastrous 2016 floods.

www.abc.net.au

From the article:
A major flood warning is in place for the Central West New South Wales community of Forbes, threatening similar levels to the disastrous 2016 floods.

"We're keeping a very close eye on the Lachlan River."

The Lachlan River runs through part of the town so floods are not unusual for the area.

The last major flood in Forbes was in 2016 when properties were inundated.

View attachment 132916
Overflowing Wyangala Dam, near Cowra, has turned the Lachlan River into a wild stretch of whitewater.(Supplied: John Batcheldor)
It experienced similar conditions in 2012 and back in the '90s.

 

[bellenuit]

Wait.... Wut?

Refused an operation because unvaxxed?

No what was alleged was: "A friend's wife actually committed suicide after she was allegedly refused a necessary operation because she wasn't and didn't want to be vaxed."

That is an interesting situation. Since specific details were not given, it would still be safe to assume that apart from those carrying out the procedure who may have protective clothing and masks, she would also come into contact with many other people that have no such protection. Cleaners, ward nurses, catering, etc. Have they no right to feel safe in their work environment? If she were to acquire covid after the operation and it led to complications that could severely incapacitate her or kill her because of her weekend state due to the operation, where would that place the hospital legally?

Although deciding to commit suicide indicates severe mental trauma, one would wonder why she thought vaccination was more dangerous to her than actual death itself. One would expect that she somehow believes that any possible negative effects of the vaccine would incapacitate her in a way that death would be more preferable and the probability of such incapacitation is so high that certain death is preferable.

I wonder where she is hearing such nonsense?

 

[sptrawler]

Talking to my cousin in the U.K tonight, they are on booster shot, the first two were AZ, the booster was Moderna.

 

[moXJO]

No what was alleged was: "A friend's wife actually committed suicide after she was allegedly refused a necessary operation because she wasn't and didn't want to be vaxed."

That is an interesting situation. Since specific details were not given, it would still be safe to assume that apart from those carrying out the procedure who may have protective clothing and masks, she would also come into contact with many other people that have no such protection. Cleaners, ward nurses, catering, etc. Have they no right to feel safe in their work environment? If she were to acquire covid after the operation and it led to complications that could severely incapacitate her or kill her because of her weekend state due to the operation, where would that place the hospital legally?

Although deciding to commit suicide indicates severe mental trauma, one would wonder why she thought vaccination was more dangerous to her than actual death itself. One would expect that she somehow believes that any possible negative effects of the vaccine would incapacitate her in a way that death would be more preferable and the probability of such incapacitation is so high that certain death is preferable.

I wonder where she is hearing such nonsense?

She was in severe pain and waiting on the op. She is from central coast on a farm miles from anyone. Lockdown saw her son stuck in Melbourne which added to it I would say. She was of Asian decent and in my experience they have tight social and family networks. Lockdowns were extremely hard for a lot of foreign born. To add: she waited for roughly 2 years in agony while covid locked hospitals.

Her partner was into the whole alternative medicine scene.

I'm not sure if they are anti all vaccine or anti covid vax. But they held their views long before QAnon showed up. Anti-vaxxers have been round for a long time.

"Trashing Van Badham".
Hmm, it seems a common theme here.
We have sources we believe, and we have sources that we do not believe under any circumstances.
It's not so much right versus left, its "what i believe in versus everyone else who is wrong".
Mick

Van is a well known muckraking flog. Mainstream media in general is probably (and ironically) the worst place to get informed. Exception is a few unbiased journalists.

 

[wayneL]

No what was alleged was: "A friend's wife actually committed suicide after she was allegedly refused a necessary operation because she wasn't and didn't want to be vaxed."

That is an interesting situation. Since specific details were not given, it would still be safe to assume that apart from those carrying out the procedure who may have protective clothing and masks, she would also come into contact with many other people that have no such protection. Cleaners, ward nurses, catering, etc. Have they no right to feel safe in their work environment? If she were to acquire covid after the operation and it led to complications that could severely incapacitate her or kill her because of her weekend state due to the operation, where would that place the hospital legally?

Although deciding to commit suicide indicates severe mental trauma, one would wonder why she thought vaccination was more dangerous to her than actual death itself. One would expect that she somehow believes that any possible negative effects of the vaccine would incapacitate her in a way that death would be more preferable and the probability of such incapacitation is so high that certain death is preferable.

I wonder where she is hearing such nonsense?

I don't care about the woman's mental state or beliefs... and Mo has answered that to the best of his knowledge.

My query is about her being refused medical attention, regardless of the above... Hippocratic oath, legislation, an' all that.

Sweden took their course of action for the benefit of societal cohesion; our approach is causing division and as has been argued, medical apartheid.

 

[bellenuit]

I don't care about the woman's mental state or beliefs... and Mo has answered that to the best of his knowledge.

My query is about her being refused medical attention, regardless of the above... Hippocratic oath, legislation, an' all that.

Sweden took their course of action for the benefit of societal cohesion; our approach is causing division and as has been argued, medical apartheid.

She wasn't refused unconditionally. She did have the option to get vaccinated.

The hospital's duty of care extends beyond that of the immediate patient and also encompasses their staff and other patients. Were another patient or member of staff to get covid and have severe complications due to this patient being unvaccinated, even if there were no signs of this patient having covid on admittance, the hospital could face legal repercussions. If this patient were to get covid when under hospital care, even this patient might be able to sue the hospital. The best scientific knowledge, whether one agrees with it or not, is that an unvaccinated person is more likely to get infected with covid and, if infected, more likely to spread it. The hospital couldn't genuinely claim it took all necessary precautions, when they ignored this one obvious precaution which was to ensure all people admitted were vaccinated.

Ultimately this person made a decision that she knew would jeopardise her chances of receiving a necessary operation. The hospital is not at fault.

 

[wayneL]

She wasn't refused unconditionally. She did have the option to get vaccinated.

The hospital's duty of care extends beyond that of the immediate patient and also encompasses their staff and other patients. Were another patient or member of staff to get covid and have severe complications due to this patient being unvaccinated, even if there were no signs of this patient having covid on admittance, the hospital could face legal repercussions. If this patient were to get covid when under hospital care, even this patient might be able to sue the hospital. The best scientific knowledge, whether one agrees with it or not, is that an unvaccinated person is more likely to get infected with covid and, if infected, more likely to spread it. The hospital couldn't genuinely claim it took all necessary precautions, when they ignored this one obvious precaution which was to ensure all people admitted were vaccinated.

Ultimately this person made a decision that she knew would jeopardise her chances of receiving a necessary operation. The hospital is not at fault.

Let's just say I profoundly disagree and you will be on the wrong side of history on this.

 

[mullokintyre]

She wasn't refused unconditionally. She did have the option to get vaccinated.

The hospital's duty of care extends beyond that of the immediate patient and also encompasses their staff and other patients. Were another patient or member of staff to get covid and have severe complications due to this patient being unvaccinated, even if there were no signs of this patient having covid on admittance, the hospital could face legal repercussions. If this patient were to get covid when under hospital care, even this patient might be able to sue the hospital. The best scientific knowledge, whether one agrees with it or not, is that an unvaccinated person is more likely to get infected with covid and, if infected, more likely to spread it. The hospital couldn't genuinely claim it took all necessary precautions, when they ignored this one obvious precaution which was to ensure all people admitted were vaccinated.

Ultimately this person made a decision that she knew would jeopardise her chances of receiving a necessary operation. The hospital is not at fault.

That logic opens up a can of worms about disease. and duty of care.
What if the COVID was replaced with the Flu, or Hep A, or HIV, or ......
Mick

 

[bellenuit]

Let's just say I profoundly disagree and you will be on the wrong side of history on this.

You profoundly disagree that the refusal was unconditional?

 

[bellenuit]

That logic opens up a can of worms about disease. and duty of care.
What if the COVID was replaced with the Flu, or Hep A, or HIV, or ......
Mick

Yes, it is a can of worms either way. But the hospital has to decide what is best for everyone, not just that one patient.

Let's suppose it was a highly infectious version of the flu and she was required to wear some sore of protective mask and take certain medicines to allay symptoms during het stay, but she refused to comply. It's the same situation. As a duty of care to everyone, the hospital may be obliged to refuse her admittance.

You can't simply make your own rules and insist the hospital treat you regardless. She had the option to get vaccinated and chose not to do it.