Value Collector
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What about it?
I am fine with it.
The Xenophobic people who hate or are scared of foreign investment.
The Conspiracy Theory thread
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What about it?
I am fine with it.
The Xenophobic people who hate or are scared of foreign investment.
Was my Harry Dent post more on topic.
Since the US elections will have no impact on markets nor would a carbon tax.
Logically if you no longer control the ranch for example, what if the new owners turn around and decide to feed themselves first literally. Doesn't that bother you, allowing for that to occur.
It is not fear of foreign investment, rather it is selling the farm literally.
For security reasons alone it should bring about some worry surely, the port the ranch, what next the water supplies.
Assuming you have Australia's best interest at heart that is. Not to start an argument here but rather shed light on the situation.
I could post a lot of articles relating to such issues but the moderator is already displeased with my overthinking, at perhaps it is not making sense to others at the moment.
Back on topic, wouldn't you sell the produce to them, not the farm.
Have you done some research into where the money comes from from China? From my understanding it is more often than not state owned. Further if it were the other way around, an we wanted to buy the biggest ranch in the world that was based in China, would they let us? What are your thoughts ?
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The point is not just to post but to engage in discussions. If you are nothing more than a conspiracy theory posting bot then you are simply cluttering the forum with rubbish. If you are here to discuss a range of topics with others then that is different. But something tells me you are just here to push conspiracy theories. It will become clear soon enough.
Will do.
I hope I get the chance to , so far I have been called a loner and they would not waste their time on me.
I am not going to start giving out free financial advice either, nor am I going to ask what is the R2 of my portfolio, or what shares should I buy, or is oil going up. if you get what I mean.
I will try to stay on topic and not go off into a rant into what others consider conspiracy theories.
I personally want in depth discussion about real topics relating to investing, not laggard discussions.
I hope to find it here.
Is there A TPP topic I have to check that our if there is.
Thanks again MOD
Value Collector
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We will have the same level of control over the new owners as we did the previous ones, the new owners will no doubt continue to sell their produce to the highest bidder, exactly the same as the old owners, Australia has no shortage of grazing land, what we have is a shortage of people willing to invest and become cattle producers.
They can't take it with them, the assets will stay here and continue adding to the economy.
Cutting and pasting articles requires little thought, so I don't think you are in danger of over thinking.
Produce requires a producer, we need more producers and more investors, I welcome anyone who wants to make big investments into increasing Australia's production, we are not anywhere close to our capcity to absorb investment, and very few Aussies are willing to take the risk and put their investment dollars where their mouth is.
I don't care if it was state owned, provide they are putting dollars into increasing Australia's production, I am all for it.
Australians do make investments in china, I myself am an investor in Chinas biggest theme park, But either way, whether they let us invest or not is irrelevant to whether it makes economic sense for us to have more investment in the agricultural sector.
CanOz
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The issue i have with the Chinese owning anything, rather than leasing, is that its not possible to own anything in China...other than a trance of bad loans.
Fair is fair, they want to compete on the world stage, owns ranches etc., let foreigners own land in China, not just 100 year leases.
Fair is fair, they want to compete on the world stage, owns ranches etc., let foreigners own land in China, not just 100 year leases.
Value Collector
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Why would you make your foreign investment policy based on what other countries are doing?
Why wouldn't you make your policy based on what is in the best interests for our economy?
you can own all sorts of business interests in china, the fact they have some weird communist type land ownership law shouldn't effect what we do here.
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As I said, Australia has not reached it's max capacity for farming investment, so having foreign investment is a net plus, its not preventing Australians investing.
CanOz
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I would say it needs to be done on both. This is part of world trade. I'm not only against China owning land or utilities here in Australia because you cannot do the same there, its also because they're lousy managers, corrupt, self interested, lawless, abusive thugs...as well:bad:
I'm ok with the Singaporean's, Hong Kongese, Taiwanese, Indonesians, Indians....etc.
I agree that foreign investment is a good thing, including in agriculture. I just don't trust the mainlanders.
This is why I decided to post on investing forums.
Who cares as long as it is increasing GDP, is what I am hearing. That is quite interesting how you are an Investor in China, what theme park is it if you do not mind me asking of course you do not ave to tell me.
However I foresee potential issues once you have sold such assets off. Others appear to have concerns similar to mine why sell them the land when if you were to turn the situation around, it just simply would not happen.
I worry as a nation we are too politically correct and assume everyone will do us no harm. Since you dislike when I point out articles which have lots of information embedded in them, I will summarise best I can.
Look at the South China Sea situation, I thought we were such good trading partners yet, if were able and could afford a large piece of land in China, simply put it would not happen, I would imagine they would suggest it is against their best interest to sell such a large piece of land to us Aussies.
Yet we openly advertise out land for all, not quite but you get my point.
Ending here it would be assume to shoot down an Australian Aircraft seems pretty friendly.
Sorry, had to add more, rare earth and other commodities, powers consumption, we have very strict standards, however, in other nations such as China the regulations are not so strict to say the least.
Their coal power plants versus cleaner burning coal power plants yet cleaner burning ones are being shut down?
This makes no sense. We in Australia are being told to focus on renewable which cost more and produce less. If no that then nuclear, are you kidding me, look at all the coal we have and could export.
Further not to be anti Chinese, but if you make something n another country to me the designs are compromised, look at the apple gadgets, you don't think at some time they might have been copied?
Back to your point they can't take it with them, ok fair call but you really want to sell it off to start with.
Why don't we focus on building our own nation before we sell off our building blocks, literally.
Could you or anyone else really guarantee the same amount of control over an asset once sold, you sound like you enjoy when others are asleep.
I return to the point how much ore has Australia already sold to China, is that going to magically regrow? Is the mining boom over now or is that going to regrow, or is that another one of my conspiracy theories.
I believe Australia and the world is beginning to wake up, to the notion of the more investment the better regardless of national interest.
Sorry about further copying and pasting but I did manage to find an interesting article which does highlight the recognition of national security issues when selling strategic assets abroad.
Treasurer Scott Morrison blocks sale of Ausgrid to foreign bidders
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...sgrid-to-foreign-bidders-20160811-gqq5te.html
As you can see I do have much to explain however the problem is getting an audience who is willing to listen, which is ultimately their own free will to do so.
Is globalisim the answer, or is it the race to the bottom.
Value Collector
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because they're lousy managers, corrupt, self interested, lawless, abusive thugs...as well:bad:
I just don't trust the mainlanders.
Well that's a big generalisation to put over 1 Billion people in.
remember they can't take the assets with them, if they are bad managers let the regulators or the market punish them.
Value Collector
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Its more like this.
if some one wants to put hard cash on the line and invest into Australian agriculture with all its risks (an asset that most aussie would avoid), who cares what race or nation they come from.
Shanghai Disneyland, I am an investor in the Walt Disney company.
So I am an Aussie, that Owns part of an American Company, that is Investing in China, so yeah, I support foreign investment and globalisation.
Do you understand they can't take the assets back to china with them?
They have to stay here, and our government can make or change what ever laws they like to affect the return we receive from these assets.
The average age of Australian farmers in over 60, should we just let their farms turn to weeds as they retire?
That's up to each company to decide what risks they take.
But look there is a lot more money to be made designing, branding and marketing a nike shoe than there is in sewing one together, so things get designed and marketed by American companies, and we export the low value manufacturing jobs, that Aussies and Americans don't want anyway.
No one is stopping a single aussie investing, by all means ramp up aussie investment as much as you can.
How much money have you personal invested into the nation? the Average Aussie doesn't want to buy a farm, are you investing long term into agriculture and infrastructure? if not, why are you trying to cut of one source of investment, when we already have under investment in those sectors.
There is no reason to think we have any control over where the current owners sell their produce, heaps of aussie farmers already export, its a major industry, with more investment, we can export more.
We have more than we can ever use ourselves, and its paying for all sorts of things like healthcare, retirement, public works etc
Yes, if you think 0.3% of the world population (Australia), can sit on such a large endowment of natural resources and not have a moral obligation to share them through trade you are wrong, and if you think that small population can finance all the development of its resources and farmland itself, you also wrong. especially when its a nation of property investors who avoid other asset classes like the plague.
Value Collector
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Take a look at the Walt Disney companies because foreign investment ever, and yes, its an investment in china.
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Kinda makes me wonder under what conditions it was built under.
Also makes me wonder what the pay rates are.
Nothing against the (Communist) Chinese.
Walt Disney,
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-i_fUKQqJVIs/UV3l-WjvzXI/AAAAAAAAAHo/09Ms4Oa3hYU/s1600/wdbrands.png
It is a global multinational isn't it, it could almost be the definition of?
Also,
this article,
Does this Disney tax strategy go too far?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/does-disneys-luxembourg-tax-strategy-go-too-far/
They are a massive company,
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=DIS
Ok I feel this a trap for me to unload the articles about Walt Disney, so I will hold back unless asked by yourself.
More on target I guess is they can have a massive theme park, and organ harvesting vans and threaten our military and yet we are quite willing to sell them our land under, because they quote unquote "cannot take it with them", they also have rampant media and internet censorship, it is unlikely they have every heard of infowars.com, or any other real media, as opposed to the dinosaur media, which in some cases is owned by Walt Disney ironically.
Anyway I will get back to the other responses.
It is a good point I have never thought of, regarding the farmer who are retiring an no new blood taking the reigns.
Surely it could be promoted as a part of the Australian culture and possibly added to an apprenticeship scheme of some sort, or perhaps organising work experience and overall promoting and explaining why this job is essential to Australia.
As for just selling the land hopefully it does gt blocked as a threat to the national interest if deemed so. Why not have a focus of Australians supporting local produces, eg vote with your dollar, explain without trucks and farms Australia stops, could add a few more but sticking to the topic as best I can.
When export the low paying jobs that no one wants, we are part of the problem that is why we must vote with our dollars.
Exporting is great! Just don't sell the farm, at least lease it bear minimum. Russia is currently aiming to be the worlds largest producer of Non-GMO, why not compete with that. Russia has a large land mass, yet does it sell its land off to foreign interest, would they be able to, I think not.
So because we are lucky now we just give everything away and hope for the best, it is called strategic planning. Also it begins with us all, vote with what you believe in.
no we do not have a moral obligation to share, sound like you are pulling on the heart strings of political correctness, is that what you call sharing building unsinkable aircraft carriers right in the middle of disputed territories?
Here is an interesting read,
China : They're Just Not That Into Us Any More
http://www.smh.com.au/business/china-theyre-just-not-that-into-us-any-more-20160415-go770m.html
It is not about right or wrong rather it is about taking information readily available from all source not only from here or only from their, then coming to an informed decision, from which you can critically analyse.
Thank-you for the back and forth, I have also learnt how others are thinking at this important point in time.
Just my thoughts anyway.
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CanOz
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Mmm, no not a generalization, if you understood the culture then you would know that a profitable business is not in the interest of their true business model. Now that could change, but given the debt levels i don't think it will anytime soon.
I 've worked in a senior position in a foreign owned business with dozens of suppliers, as well as a domestic business. You could not get more polarized in terms of goals and objectives.
Everyone just wants the big black car....
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China is a special case when it comes to investment, especially in critical infrastructure like water supplies and power grids and we are simply naive to assume that they will not use their investment for political purposes.
Remember the ASIO building built by Chinese interests that had to be ripped up when monitoring devices were found in the walls ?
If they can control food supplies to us then that is just another notch on their barrel of political control.
There are economics of foreign investment,but there is also politics, and Morrison did the right thing by knocking back Chinese investment in Ausgrid.
Imho, all investments in Australian assets should have majority Australian investment. Then we can have the political advantage of control over our assets while allowing our markets to have an interest as well. Mutual benefit.
Remember the ASIO building built by Chinese interests that had to be ripped up when monitoring devices were found in the walls ?
If they can control food supplies to us then that is just another notch on their barrel of political control.
There are economics of foreign investment,but there is also politics, and Morrison did the right thing by knocking back Chinese investment in Ausgrid.
Imho, all investments in Australian assets should have majority Australian investment. Then we can have the political advantage of control over our assets while allowing our markets to have an interest as well. Mutual benefit.
Rumpy have you converted to Liberal Party?
Value Collector
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It takes more than a good attitude and a strong back to be an agricultural producer, it takes money.
We need Aussies willing to put their hard earned cash into investments.
I asked the question earlier, Have you ever out laid a substantial amount into an agricultural or manufacturing operation? what percentage of your wage do you put back into buying the infrastructure and assets you don't want the Chinese to buy?
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P.S, on you links, if you are linking to many articles, no one is going to read them.
Value Collector
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That just comes down to the number of Australians willing to make investments, when most Aussies only want to invest in real estate inside the capital cities, and hate having more than $10,000 in shares, and will sell at the first hint of market fluctuations, we will never have enough local capital available.
We could be 100% Aussie owned if the average Aussie was as keen to invest and they were at hating on the foreigners investing.
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I think it's a bit pie in the sky to expect mums and dads to become share market experts, they are too busy earning a living and raising families. The bulk of the investment should come by pension funds, the Future Fund for example.
So the Superannuation guarantee levy and such provides the finance for these funds and they should be using their expertise to invest it wisely.