The beauty in religion

[MS+Tradesim]

World Vision directly confronts humanitarian crises and community development.

http://www.worldvision.com.au/Issues.aspx
http://www.worldvision.org/about_us.nsf/child/history?Open

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Right wing though they were, William Wilberforce and Thomas Clarkson among others, were instrumental in the abolition of slavery in the British Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Clarkson
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/wilberforce_william.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/abolition/william_wilberforce_article_01.shtml

 

[darkside]

I see a lot of beauty in religion, we sure taught those "jews" a lesson, we held onto slavery as long as possible in fact we used it as an excuse to not try and abolish it , and we managed to treat women as 2nd class and use religion as an excuse.Plus it gave us a great book of incredible amazing bizare and sometime downright evil fairy tales with which to scare the kiddies with. So lets all rejoyce in it's beauty.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Which goes to show how much you know or understand. But that is your problem, not mine

Why bother? I mean seriously. If you don't like it, don't read it, you don't HAVE to do anything.....so don't even open the thread with the word "religion" in it. Create your own thread with your own beliefs. Simple.

Why not just let MS have his thread for those that are interested. It's really not that hard I wouldn't have thought.

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Thomas Barnardo, while somewhat sectarian, was nevertheless commited to the welfare of children, especially the homeless and poor. The modern Barnardo's organisations are more holistic but the influence of the founder is there.

http://www.barnardos.org.au/barnardos/html/index.cfm

 

[darkside]

Which goes to show how much you know or understand. But that is your problem, not mine

Why bother? I mean seriously. If you don't like it, don't read it, you don't HAVE to do anything.....so don't even open the thread with the word "religion" in it. Create your own thread with your own beliefs. Simple.

Why not just let MS have his thread for those that are interested. It's really not that hard I wouldn't have thought.

Your kidding aren't you, i followed the thread to the letter, i gave examples ,and yes i" do know and understand", thanks for pointing that out, and yet you chastise me for opening a thread and making a comment, who made you the "ASF Nazi"

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by MS Tradeism

Thomas Barnardo, while somewhat sectarian, was nevertheless commited to the welfare of children, especially the homeless and poor. The modern Barnardo's organisations are more holistic but the influence of the founder is there.

I've found a few more to add to your list MS. Like many you've highlighted some of these people have also been extremely generous to many worthy causes. I am sure that even christians would probably ackowledge their generosity.

Meet A Few Rich Atheists!

“...the God in whose hand THY BREATH IS, and whose are all thy ways, HAST THOU NOT GLORIFIED” (Daniel 5:23).

Bill Gates

Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?

Gates: I don't. I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very, very positive impact.

Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you'd say you don't know?

Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

Gates was profiled by Walter Isaacson in a January 13, 1996

Isaacson: Isn't there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?

Gates: I don't have any evidence on that.

Gates: Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There's a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

George Soros

The multi-billionaire, financier and philanthropist was profiled on the newsmagazine 60 Minutes, broadcast December 20, 1998.

Steve Kroft: Are you a religious man?
Soros: No
Kroft: Do you believe in God?
Soros: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warren Buffett

The multi-billionaire, financier, atheist and business man. The following is taken from--Buffett: The Making of an American Capitalist, by Roger Lowenstein (Doubleday, 1995), page 13...

"He did not subscribe to his family's religion. Even at a young age he was too mathematical, too logical, to make the leap of faith.”

“He adopted his father's ethical underpinnings, but not his belief in an unseen divinity.”

Source: www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's Corner/meet_a_few_atheists.htm

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Religion has a rich history of inspiration for art, architecture and music.
There is simply too much here to cover.

http://www.all-art.org/contents.html
http://www.worldandi.com/subscribers/feature_detail.asp?num=24673

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Your kidding aren't you, i followed the thread to the letter, i gave examples ,and yes i" do know and understand", thanks for pointing that out, and yet you chastise me for opening a thread and making a comment, who made you the "ASF Nazi"

Yes you're right. You have contributed well to this thread.

For some weird reason I thought your post was full of sarcasm, and it definitely wasn't vilifying religion.

How silly of me, my apologies.

End of discussion, keep it up MS. Back on topic.

 

[darkside]

Yes you're right. You have contributed well to this thread.

For some weird reason I thought your post was full of sarcasm, and it definitely wasn't vilifying religion.

How silly of me, my apologies.

End of discussion, keep it up MS. Back on topic.

Sam apology accepted, and yes all i was trying to do was conrtibute to this very informative thread! sorry if i was misconstrued in any way, i love beauty in any form and yes religion certainy has it's place,why who didn't like the holocaust, Christianity was the main catalyst for it, and look how it shaped the countryside, not too mention the Nations, surely that must have some sort of weird beauty about it .

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Martin Luther King Jr was committed to non-violent political activism against racism, and was an advocate for justice and civil rights.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1964/king-bio.html

 

[MS+Tradesim]

The dignity and worth of all human life, as an idea, originates in religion.

In the west it is attributable to Christianity and has its roots in Judaism. The human has inherent value by virtue of being bearers of the image of God. Thus, even immoral and repugnantly behaving people still have as much value as a saint. So we are taught to love and respect all, not just those who love us in return - we have hope for the potential in all, not just those who are already examples of selfless love. All of nature is sacred and to be respected because it is a gift to us. Animals should not be abused because they have their own value, distinct from any "material resource" view for which they are exploited.
http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2009/02/human-value-in-ancient-world.html

Islam has a view of the dignity of all humans, though I have not studied Islam in much detail.
http://www.crescentlife.com/spirituality/muslims_for_human_dignity.htm

In the east, the Buddhist tradition taught that the dignity of the human lay in the ability to choose between right and wrong, to make moral and conscious decisions, not to merely act on instinct. All of life has a sacred spark and humans have a rare privilege to consciously explore divinity.
http://www.sgi.org/buddhismHuman.html

There are similarities and differences between these views.

Modern, secular westerns piggyback off the historic cultural currency provided by religion but as evidenced on a large scale across many cultures and countries through history, the inherent value of a human is not universally believed and practiced.

 

[Julia]

TThus, even immoral and repugnantly behaving people still have as much value as a saint.

Sorry, not to me they don't.
Why would you value some immoral and badly behaved person as much as a saint ?

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Mohandas (Mahatma) Ghandi, was a political and spiritual activist who lived out his beliefs in non-violent resistance during India's struggle for independence. He was an influence on Martin Luther King Jr.

http://www.mkgandhi.org/main.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

 

[MS+Tradesim]

Why would you value some immoral and badly behaved person as much as a saint ?

Because no-one is so hopelessly lost in depravity that they cannot still discover and fulfill their potential. Each person has inherent dignity and value, not just the ones who behave as we would like others to behave.

 

[gav]

its hard to see beauty in religion. i see it in humanity. beautiful acts of kindness inspired by men and women, with a religion taking the credit....

.

Well then, we may as well change the name of the "Religion gone crazy" thread to "Humanity gone crazy", because it is humans that have gone crazy and religion is getting the blame for it...

Well, Metric?

If it is humanity (not religion) that creates these acts of kindness and beauty, then religion cannot be blamed for the atrocities committed by humanity either.

 

[Boggo]

Mohandas (Mahatma) Ghandi, was a political and spiritual activist who lived out his beliefs in non-violent resistance during India's struggle for independence. He was an influence on Martin Luther King Jr.

I do like these by Ghandi...

Mahatma Ghandi's list of seven deadly sins:
1 Wealth without work
2 Pleasure without conscience
3 Knowledge without character
4 Business without morality
5 Science without humanity
6 Worship without sacrifice
7 Politics without principle


There was also this comment attributed to some yank general (who else )

"Dammit boy, there are no atheists here, everyone gets religion in a combat zone"

 

[ColB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Julia:

'Why would you value some immoral and badly behaved person as much as a saint ?

Quote: Originally Posted by MS Tradeism:

'Because no-one is so hopelessly lost in depravity that they cannot still discover and fulfill their potential. Each person has inherent dignity and value, not just the ones who behave as we would like others to behave.'

So there is still hope for Ivan Milat!!

 

[ColB]

Originally posted by Julia

In the interest of supporting the theme of this thread I've been trying to think of something positive or beautiful to do with religion.

Can't say it's been easy but I do have a friend who is devoutly religious.
Somehow we've managed to remain friends over many years, probably because we agree not to discuss religion.

Every Christmas she looks around her neighbourhood, workplace etc for anyone who might not have someone with whom to spend Christmas Day and invites these people to join her and her family. There are often a quite motley collection of people but she makes them all feel welcome and wanted.

So I reckon that's a plus for religion.

Couldn't agree more Julia, but I can't help but feel sorry for that 'Motley Collection' for the other 364 days of the year!

Please tell me your religious friends generosity extends beyond one day a year.

 

[Julia]

Couldn't agree more Julia, but I can't help but feel sorry for that 'Motley Collection' for the other 364 days of the year!

Please tell me your religious friends generosity extends beyond one day a year.

Yes, Col, she's simply a kind and thoughtful person. But no, she can't look after these people every day of their lives. She's a working psychologist with other responsibilities within her own family.

How many people do you know who even gives a moment's thought to those people who might be alone on Christmas Day? I don't know anyone else who does this.