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The beauty in religion

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peterh said:
Genesis 22: 1-18

Isaac was a young adult when this occurred, and Abraham an old man, so this can't be considered child abuse. Isaac could easily have overpowered his father, but he chose not to. There are clear links in this story to God sending Jesus to die on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice.
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Peterh , i'm not quite sure that because Isaac isnt a young child it justifies this attrocious act, or for that matter makes it right, perhaps one of us should check our "moral compass", i then suppose the rest of the story offends me even more , being against animal cruelty i found it distressing that God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram, if the RSPCA doesn't scream for a jail sentence for this then i give up, and no decent person can find this acceptable.
 
peterh said:
Abraham proved his obedience to, and faith in, God.

Abraham didn't lie when Isaac asked about the sacrifice and he said "God himself will provide one." (v8) Abraham knew that he would have many decendants through his son Isaac (Genesis 17: 2, 16, 18-19), so he assumed he would not have to kill his son, or if he did he would be brought back to life (clearly this is the hardest test a father could undertake). Also in verse 5 he says, "Stay here with the donkey. The boy and I will go over there and worship, and then we will come back to you." He assumed that Isaac would be coming back with him.
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What the posted extracts don't reveal is how God manifested himself to Abraham. I presume it couldn't have been in the form of a person as I was under the impression that Jesus was the first personification of God. Was it a voice from Heaven, like in the movies, or some such supernatural manifestation?

If Abraham was convinced that the person was God (and I assume a voice from Heaven would be pretty convincing), aren't you really saying that Abraham knew he wasn't really sacrificing his son, as he deducted his son would be brought back to life (and knew God had the power to do it) or that God was going to stop him at the last moment. Isn't there a bit of nod nod, wink wink there?

It would be a different matter if it were Jesus who was asking him to sacrifice his son, Isaac. Then Abraham would have had to have enormous faith to believe that the person asking him to do that act is truly the son of God and has the power to resurrect his son after the act. If his faith was misdirected, then he would be making a massive blunder.

As an aside, who was he talking to when he said: "Stay here with the donkey. The boy and I will go over there and worship, and then we will come back to you."
 
bellenuit said:
What the posted extracts don't reveal is how God manifested himself to Abraham. I presume it couldn't have been in the form of a person as I was under the impression that Jesus was the first personification of God. Was it a voice from Heaven, like in the movies, or some such supernatural manifestation?
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Magic Mushies is my hypothesis... presuming said events actually did happen as written. :)

Perhaps a case of Chinese whispers involved too.
 
Bellenuit, apparently, thats how God shows his love , by first off asking you to murder your son, then he does a bit of " tricked you" haha "april fool " but no seriously , i still yearn for the smell of burning flesh , so how about slaughtering a ram and burning that for me.
See how much i love you people, as a matter of fact because you have all been so bad i may even kill my own child , but don't worry too much , he will get better in a few days, then you can go on worshipping him. Yes i can't shoot any holes in that story !!!
 
darkside said:
i then suppose the rest of the story offends me even more , being against animal cruelty i found it distressing that God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram, if the RSPCA doesn't scream for a jail sentence for this then i give up, and no decent person can find this acceptable.
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Completely agree. If adults, young and/or old, want to follow advice from celestial voices to sacrifice themselves, that's fine with me, but don't involve innocent animals. This makes me more sick and furious than pretty much anything. Just as well I believe the Bible is nothing more than a bunch of silly fairy stories anyway.
 
Julia said:
Completely agree. If adults, young and/or old, want to follow advice from celestial voices to sacrifice themselves, that's fine with me, but don't involve innocent animals. This makes me more sick and furious than pretty much anything. Just as well I believe the Bible is nothing more than a bunch of silly fairy stories anyway.
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Yep , only the muff-its & puppets follow the book called the bible , Requiem of the brain dead ... :eek:
 
Julia said:
Completely agree. If adults, young and/or old, want to follow advice from celestial voices to sacrifice themselves, that's fine with me, but don't involve innocent animals. This makes me more sick and furious than pretty much anything. Just as well I believe the Bible is nothing more than a bunch of silly fairy stories anyway.
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Good evening Julia,

Actually the bible has some good stuff to take from. But it comes from a time much unlike the present.

The new religion of man made global warming is the stuff of real fairy tales.
 
bellenuit said:
What the posted extracts don't reveal is how God manifested himself to Abraham. I presume it couldn't have been in the form of a person as I was under the impression that Jesus was the first personification of God. Was it a voice from Heaven, like in the movies, or some such supernatural manifestation?

If Abraham was convinced that the person was God (and I assume a voice from Heaven would be pretty convincing), aren't you really saying that Abraham knew he wasn't really sacrificing his son, as he deducted his son would be brought back to life (and knew God had the power to do it) or that God was going to stop him at the last moment. Isn't there a bit of nod nod, wink wink there?

It would be a different matter if it were Jesus who was asking him to sacrifice his son, Isaac. Then Abraham would have had to have enormous faith to believe that the person asking him to do that act is truly the son of God and has the power to resurrect his son after the act. If his faith was misdirected, then he would be making a massive blunder.

As an aside, who was he talking to when he said: "Stay here with the donkey. The boy and I will go over there and worship, and then we will come back to you."
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It is not clear in what form God spoke to Abraham in this situation. In the past he had appeared to Abraham as a vision and some sort of angel, as two examples. They had already been communicating for many years. It may well have been a voice from Heaven.

This story is about Abraham's incredible faith in God. Abraham thought that God would save his son, but he could not be absolutely sure. This was an unimaginably tough test, and Abraham's faith proved to be strong enough.

Abraham was speaking to two servants when he said, "Stay here with the donkey. The boy and I will go over there and worship, and then we will come back to you."
 
darkside said:
Peterh , i'm not quite sure that because Isaac isnt a young child it justifies this attrocious act, or for that matter makes it right, perhaps one of us should check our "moral compass", i then suppose the rest of the story offends me even more , being against animal cruelty i found it distressing that God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram, if the RSPCA doesn't scream for a jail sentence for this then i give up, and no decent person can find this acceptable.
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The following comment I found explains animal sacrifice quite well.

"The wages of sin is death. The payment for that sin was the shed blood of the innocent. Since all mankind is inherently sinful, none could qualify as a sacrifice. So the innocent animal became the sacrifice.

When Jesus came on the scene, John the Baptist remarked that He was the lamb who takes away the sin of the world - the only innocent man.

We no longer need to sacrifice animals to cover our sins. Now all we need do is trust in Jesus for our salvation and He washes away all our sins. Good deal!"

I'm certainly far from perfect, but I'm confident that my moral compass is pointing in generally the right direction, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.
 
Peterh , please stop , regardless of beliefs , "John the Baptist" crazy superstitions , voodoo or whatever , there is absolutly no justification for cruelly mistreating any creature.!!

No one honestly in their right mind could subscribe to a God that wants innocent animals sacrificed , or his own "child murdered" and the inhumane treatment of animals was well documented in the babble and used to please God. Tell me how this is not morally reprehensible:

God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10

Or If an ox gores a slave, the owner of the ox must pay the owner of the slave 30 shekels of silver, and "the ox shall be stoned." 21:32 .

So we love both slavery and stoning , it's so wrong and if you can put spin on this to convince me and other decent people otherwise then i will stand corrected, otherwise that compass isn't pointing due north!
 
To lighten to mood:

INTERVIEW WITH GOD :D


George Burns was fantastic.
 
peterh Re: The beauty in religion

The following comment I found explains animal sacrifice quite well.

"The wages of sin is death. The payment for that sin was the shed blood of the innocent. Since all mankind is inherently sinful, none could qualify as a sacrifice. So the innocent animal became the sacrifice.
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What gobbledygook. My experience is that mankind is inherently good. Explains only the interpretation of the scriptures, words which cannot be verified.

And the rest of the post, mere musings based on improbable stories with an intent to brainwash and control the sheeple.

Done a fine job of it too.

It's Snake Pliskin Re: The beauty in religion

The new religion of man made global warming is the stuff of real fairy tales.
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Yeh, need to call it "global overpopulation" cause the Pope does not believe condoms stop aids and another great mantra, "suffer the little children and bring them unto me" wonderful stuff from the pulpit, remember it well in fear as a child and we find out now many are/were PED'S.
 
peterh said:
The following comment I found explains animal sacrifice quite well.

"The wages of sin is death. The payment for that sin was the shed blood of the innocent. Since all mankind is inherently sinful, none could qualify as a sacrifice. So the innocent animal became the sacrifice.
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Oh, what utter twaddle.

I usually try to be polite but this complete rubbish just is too much for me!

I have no idea how any reasonable person can take any notice of such absolute nonsense.

And, Peter, I hope you don't have any pets, given how little regard you have for animals.
 
Julia said:
Oh, what utter twaddle.

I usually try to be polite but this complete rubbish just is too much for me!

I have no idea how any reasonable person can take any notice of such absolute nonsense.

And, Peter, I hope you don't have any pets, given how little regard you have for animals.
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You don't agree with me Julia, that's fine, but why the diatribe? I'm attempting to explain a practice that took place more than 2000 years ago, not something I do in my backyard of a weekend.

I don't appreciate your comment about pets, that is not helpful and just plain wrong.
 
Tink said:
Hail Mary MacKillop, the Australian saint :D
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Tink, can you explain (if you are so inclined) what this means to you?

I understand she is believed to be the source of two 'miracles', both involved in healing cancer.
Where can interested people find documentation about the medical aspects of these cures?
 
Tink said:
Beautiful story this morning :D

Miracle in our midst

http://www.theage.com.au/national/miracle-in-our-midst-says-vatican-20101005-1664k.html
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Ha ha....... yes, another 'god' to add to the thousands you catholics pray to!! Whatever happened to "Thou shalt have no other gods but me"? What utter nonsense!! Such beliefs belong to the age when our primitive ancestors thought the earth was flat and the sky was a dome with holes in it, through which the stars shone at night.
 

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