The baby boomers are going to kill us... Budget Deficit is temporary??

[Soft Dough]

There is probably not much more to add to this, other than if you are unhappy with your lot, DO something about it, and I cannot think of any country that offers the avenues to do that than OZ.
I for one am heartily sick of this divisive Gen X,Y, B/B, bulls-it.

Sure, I can vote against ridiculous healthcare spending and pension increases and services directed at BB in the years to come.

Is it going to make any difference? nope... they will control the vote.

In fact, due to WW2, their generation has controlled the vote for most of their existence, funny isn't it.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Sure, I can vote against ridiculous healthcare spending and pension increases and services directed at BB in the years to come.

Is it going to make any difference? nope... they will control the vote.

In fact, due to WW2, their generation has controlled the vote for most of their existence, funny isn't it.

Your right SD. The grey brigade have tonnes of clout at the ballot box every election. But remember they also paid more than their fair share of taxes throughout the years that followed. I don't think anyone can blame them for the imbalance in the population demographic. What would be funny would involve blaming them for today's family planning practices and modern contraceptive methods too!

 

[Mr J]

Just as you should take my point that going overseas in search of a better life is unlikely to offer any improvement on the lifestyle here in this country.

I never said overseas would necessarily allow for a better lifestyle. I don't know, but I allow for the possibility that a reasonable number of people may be able to live as a good a life in many other places. This is competely subjective, as opinions on what is a good lifestyle varies significantly. You don't seem to allow for this possibility.

It's clear that you and I think very differently on the subject of opportunity. You think in terms of the opportunities available in the workforce. I think in terms of the opportunities to get ahead financially irrespective of your job or your level of income.
I suggest you broaden your thinking to include the concept of making money work for you, as opposed to you working for money.

I don't think that way at all. I work at making money by making my money work for me. By opportunities, I'm including anything from occupations, lifestyle, partners, etc. The fact is that all of these come in a limited supply, and the majority of people are going to have to compomise.

Opportunities are certainly limited, as when one takes advantage of an opportunity, that is one less opportunity for someone else. Perhaps it's the dream house, the job you would love, the woman you love etc. For most, life often comes down to having to settle for what you can have, rather than what you want.

You seem to make an association between wasting money and having quality of life.
I believe you need to renovate your thinking.

Not at all. I've actually stated in this thread that financial success does not necessarily mean quality of life, as it is completely subjective. What makes one happy may not make another happy.

I get heartily sick of people moaning about lack of opportunities in Australia, just as I get heartily sick of the tunnel vision that convinces people that a particular generation is responsible for the woes of the world

No-one here is moaning, and particular generations are responsible for the woes for the world. Each generation in power has a major influences on all events that happen during their time, so they're often responsible. Blaming a generation doesn't mean blaming all individuals within that group, but the group as a whole, even if it's only the powerful minority of that group. It certainly does not mean that all baby boomers are to blame and that they're alone to blame.

 

[Soft Dough]

But remember they also paid more than their fair share of taxes throughout the years that followed. I don't think anyone can blame them for the imbalance in the population demographic. What would be funny would involve blaming them for today's family planning practices and modern contraceptive methods too!

And we will have to pay more taxes. We will have to support a greater proportion of pensioners, and pay for the debt that has been left to us due to the over-consumption over the past 10-15 years.

Reasons for family planning / contraception!! thankyou feminist movement. Thankyou for disregarding THE most important job in the world ( being a mother ) in favour of stupid materialistic pursuits. YES my wife will never work as long as our children are still at home. It is THE most important job that there is, and it is a darn shame that our families today put housing and TVs ahead of their children, and believe that daycare is an acceptable alternative to real parenting.

I find it highly amusing, the shock and horror that my wife encounters when she tells people that she will not be going back to work. She often laughs that women are the biggest problem that women have. I tend to agree.

 

[bunyip]

I never said overseas would necessarily allow for a better lifestyle. I don't know, but I allow for the possibility that a reasonable number of people may be able to live as a good a life in many other places. This is competely subjective, as opinions on what is a good lifestyle varies significantly. You don't seem to allow for this possibility.

I'm well aware that different people have different opinions about what constitutes a decent lifestyle.
I simply say that people are kidding themselves if they think they need to move out of Australia if they want a decent lifestyle. Anyone with the power to think and observe will recognise that Australia offers us the opportunity to live whatever lifestyle we choose. The same can't be said for every country.



I don't think that way at all. I work at making money by making my money work for me.

Pleased to hear it. Your referral to opportunities in terms of jobs, without any reference to other opportunities such as investments, had me thinking that you were one of the many who can't think outside the square of earning money from a job as their only source of income.
I'm pleased to learn that you do in fact have the ability to think outside that square.

Opportunities are certainly limited, as when one takes advantage of an opportunity, that is one less opportunity for someone else. Perhaps it's the dream house, the job you would love, the woman you love etc. For most, life often comes down to having to settle for what you can have, rather than what you want.

When it comes to getting ahead through investment, this country offers virtually limitless possibilities. What's to stop you from owning 15 houses, or 20 or 30? I know people who own more than that.
If you did in fact own dozens of houses, would that limit my opportunity of doing the same? Not at all.
If you built up a half million dollar share portfolio, would that limit my opportunity of doing similar? Not at all.
This country is a land of opportunities for anyone who chooses to grasp them.




No-one here is moaning, and particular generations are responsible for the woes for the world. Each generation in power has a major influences on all events that happen during their time, so they're often responsible. Blaming a generation doesn't mean blaming all individuals within that group, but the group as a whole, even if it's only the powerful minority of that group. It certainly does not mean that all baby boomers are to blame and that they're alone to blame.

Nobody here is moaning? Like hell they're not. Read the first post in this thread that moans about baby boomers not paying enough taxes and what they've done to the economy and what they'll do to it in future, and how they should be subjected to estate tax etc - and various other ill-considered comments.

Read the various comments throughout this forum from people who berate this country for its perceived shortcomings, and vow to move overseas for a better lifestyle.

No one generation is responsible for anything. How can they be.....is society made up entirely of baby boomers, or any other generation for that matter? No. Society is made up a lots of people from all generations, all of whom get to vote and have a bearing on the decisions that are made, and the consequences that result.

.......

 

[robandcoll]

Well this little baby boomer wont be getting a pension because I have been prudent with my investments for the day I retire. Sell funded and will spend the lot, unless ofcourse Labor continues with its policies of taking from those who have and giving to those that havent. I am sure they will spend some of it for me.

 

[Soft Dough]

Well this little baby boomer wont be getting a pension because I have been prudent with my investments for the day I retire. Sell funded and will spend the lot, unless ofcourse Labor continues with its policies of taking from those who have and giving to those that havent. I am sure they will spend some of it for me.

And we respect that, and it is what we all aim for, but you are the minority.

( and btw I am going to die broke too, I'll educate my children, but it will be up to them to earn their lot )

 

[Julia]

And we will have to pay more taxes. We will have to support a greater proportion of pensioners, and pay for the debt that has been left to us due to the over-consumption over the past 10-15 years.

I suppose it's just the dreadful baby boomers who have over-consumed during this period. Fine. Whatever you say.

Reasons for family planning / contraception!! thankyou feminist movement. Thankyou for disregarding THE most important job in the world ( being a mother ) in favour of stupid materialistic pursuits. YES my wife will never work as long as our children are still at home. It is THE most important job that there is, and it is a darn shame that our families today put housing and TVs ahead of their children, and believe that daycare is an acceptable alternative to real parenting.

I do agree about children doing much better when their mother isn't pursuing a career.

But it sounds as though you'd prefer women not to have a choice about pregnancy which was frequently the case before there was reliable contraception. Yep, those were the good old days, back street abortions and all. Great stuff, soft dough.

 

[Soft Dough]

I suppose it's just the dreadful baby boomers who have over-consumed during this period. Fine. Whatever you say.

Of course not the only ones, but the ones with the means to do so more aggressively.

But it sounds as though you'd prefer women not to have a choice about pregnancy which was frequently the case before there was reliable contraception. Yep, those were the good old days, back street abortions and all. Great stuff, soft dough.

not wrt pregnancy, I never said that, and in fact I provide a lot of advice to women about their choices regarding contraception etc.

I said that they should choose to stay at home more often, and sacrifice some materialistic items for the sake of their children ( personally I blame feminists.... and madonna )

 

[Mr J]

I simply say that people are kidding themselves if they think they need to move out of Australia if they want a decent lifestyle. Anyone with the power to think and observe will recognise that Australia offers us the opportunity to live whatever lifestyle we choose. The same can't be said for every country.

I don't think Australia does offer every lifestyle at all. A lot of lifestyle are culture-based, and we can only cover a slice of the cultures represented around the world. Australia offers a good variety, but there is a lot that you can't do here. Examples are a great nightlife, travelling, fashion, many sciences etc. There are also a lot of climate/evironment-based lifestyles that Australia can't provide.

When it comes to getting ahead through investment, this country offers virtually limitless possibilities. What's to stop you from owning 15 houses, or 20 or 30? I know people who own more than that.
If you did in fact own dozens of houses, would that limit my opportunity of doing the same? Not at all.
If you built up a half million dollar share portfolio, would that limit my opportunity of doing similar? Not at all.
This country is a land of opportunities for anyone who chooses to grasp them.

Yes, but most aren't able to and for many reasons. These opportunities are available to the right individuals, but not to the majority. Perhaps they're not knowledgable, intelligent, wise or innovative enough to take advantage of a financial opportunity. Perhaps they're not self-aware or strong-willed enough to take advantage of a lifestyle opportunity. Perhaps they're just not smart enough to compete for that occupation they want. Perhaps they're not good-looking enough to capture that woman's affections. Perhaps they can't afford the education etc. I could go on, the point is that many can't take advantage of many opportunities for many reasons. Some their fault, some are just out of their reach. That's life.

Nobody here is moaning? Like hell they're not. Read the first post in this thread that moans about baby boomers not paying enough taxes and what they've done to the economy and what they'll do to it in future, and how they should be subjected to estate tax etc - and various other ill-considered comments.

I don't recall much ranting and moaning, but I would probably subconsciously skip those anyway.

No one generation is responsible for anything. How can they be.....is society made up entirely of baby boomers, or any other generation for that matter? No. Society is made up a lots of people from all generations, all of whom get to vote and have a bearing on the decisions that are made, and the consequences that result.

I did say that not all baby boomers were to blame, and that they alone can't be blamed. Ultimately, everything affects everything, so it can't be denied that baby boomers, as a generation, are to blame. That does not mean there aren't others to blame!

I do agree about children doing much better when their mother isn't pursuing a career.

I assume it's more important to just have someone there. I think it's less important who, just as long as they are close to the child and can properly fill a parenting role.

I said that they should choose to stay at home more often, and sacrifice some materialistic items for the sake of their children

The same could be said of fathers. Our childhood male and female role models significantly affect our future relationships.

 

[gfresh]

There is probably not much more to add to this, other than if you are unhappy with your lot, DO something about it, and I cannot think of any country that offers the avenues to do that than OZ.
I for one am heartily sick of this divisive Gen X,Y, B/B, bulls-it.

:iamwithst

When did this crap start anyhow? It seems to be a recent phenomena (within the last 5 years unless I am off track), to blame the previous generation, or the next, for the problems of today.

 

[Julia]

:iamwithst

When did this crap start anyhow? It seems to be a recent phenomena (within the last 5 years unless I am off track), to blame the previous generation, or the next, for the problems of today.

Yes, of course it's nonsense. You simply can't categorise a whole generation.
Perhaps it's a phenomenon peculiar to this generation in response to their reluctance to take responsibility for their own outcomes.

(already I can hear the howls of protest at the above.)

 

[Calliope]

I did say that not all baby boomers were to blame, and that they alone can't be blamed. Ultimately, everything affects everything, so it can't be denied that baby boomers, as a generation, are to blame. That does not mean there aren't others to blame!

You keep harping about blame. Blame for what?:dunno:

 

[bunyip]

I don't think Australia does offer every lifestyle at all. A lot of lifestyle are culture-based, and we can only cover a slice of the cultures represented around the world. Australia offers a good variety, but there is a lot that you can't do here. Examples are a great nightlife, travelling, fashion, many sciences etc. There are also a lot of climate/evironment-based lifestyles that Australia can't provide.



Yes, but most aren't able to and for many reasons. These opportunities are available to the right individuals, but not to the majority. Perhaps they're not knowledgable, intelligent, wise or innovative enough to take advantage of a financial opportunity. Perhaps they're not self-aware or strong-willed enough to take advantage of a lifestyle opportunity. Perhaps they're just not smart enough to compete for that occupation they want. Perhaps they're not good-looking enough to capture that woman's affections. Perhaps they can't afford the education etc. I could go on, the point is that many can't take advantage of many opportunities for many reasons. Some their fault, some are just out of their reach. That's life.

I did say that not all baby boomers were to blame, and that they alone can't be blamed. Ultimately, everything affects everything, so it can't be denied that baby boomers, as a generation, are to blame. That does not mean there aren't others to blame!

If you think travel, a great nightlife, fashion etc are not available in this country then you must be living under a rock out in the central Australian desert somewhere.
Maybe you have one of those half dead personalities that prevent you from ever utilising what's on offer anyway.
But since you seem to think that Australia falls short in so many areas, I suggest you take yourself over to some other country that you think will be an improvement.
I'll stick with my view that you and most other people who try it will return to Australia.

It's pretty darned silly to suggest that opportunities are not available to the majority.
We have free education and a generally high employment rate, even now in this economic recession.
The majority of people can work and save money if they set their minds to it. They can invest their savings in growth assets if they wish to. In so doing, they have the potential to improve their lives and even become financially wealthy, with the improved lifestyle and higher living standards that usually accompany an improved financial situation.
Sure there are people who, for whatever reason, are not going to take advantage of their opportunities.
But that doesn't alter the fact that good opportunities are available to the majority of us in this country.

It's pretty feeble the way you're dodging and weaving and twisting on the subject of baby boomers and generations as you try to lay blame.
Get over your obsession with blame, forget about categorising generations, open your eyes and start realising that rather than blaming anyone, you ought to be commending society for the tremendous advances we've made, the country we've all helped to shape, and the free and wonderful lifestyle we've created in the best country on Earth.

And if you disagree that Australia is the best country on Earth, then as I said earlier, see if you can find a better place by taking yourself off to some other country. Perhaps you'd be doing Australia a favour.

 

[bunyip]

You keep harping about blame. Blame for what?:dunno:

Calliope

It's difficult for us normal people to undertand how some of these characters think.

Maybe he wants to blame us for......

Creating all the opportunities we have.
The freedom we enjoy.
The laid back Australian lifestyle we cherish.
The fact that we're weathering this recession better than most countries.
The freedom of speech we enjoy.
The Australian spirit that's responsible for so many of our men and women answering the call to defend our country whenever our freedom is threatened by war.
The development of technology that's made our lives easier.
The shorter working hours that gave us more leisure time with friends and families.
Our free education and health systems.
Our social welfare system that looks after those who can't look after themselves.
Or for a hundred other benefits we take for granted in this country.....benefits that are absent in many other countries.

I get heartily sick of these people who moan and whinge and try to lay blame. I wish they'd piss off and go somewhere else to live.

 

[enigmatic]

When you think about it though it is a scary thought.

In the year 2010
2010-1945 -65years of age
so in a very short period of time we are going to have a larger number of people starting to retire thus the money which the BB will be placing into our future fund will be minimal..

However I guess you could always be an optimist which i prefer and look at the benifits.. There are going to be alot of highly qualified personal leaving many industries soon providing opportunities for those willing to grab it to move up in the ranks and earn more money. Our youth will have job opportunities.. atleast they can look after the pensioners.
Pensioners will still spend there money, unfortunetly we will have to put up with 10-25years of slow driving while there is still a large portion of oldies on the road.. Possiblity better then the crazy teens although atleast there going the speedlimit or faster.

I think in the long run you will find many pensioners will return to work or stay part time as they won't be able to afford to live the expensive lifestyle that we younger Generations have to pay for day in day out.

So i dont see why there is to much stress Were all going to be old one day and we will want to get as much cash of our hard working youth as possible and be able to complain about how reckless they are.

Oh and about the Generation complaining about each other, I dont think it has always happened it seemed to start with the BB parents complaining about there kids and the BB complaining about there kids and there kids complaining about there Parents and so on..

It all goes back to the 60's

 

[kincella]

bit off topic..I just like some of the smilies..wish I could re arrange my choice in the list...instead of having to scroll through everytime

oh and yes I am a boomer....I believe it can be construed as racism...this blame game going on...

:iamwithst:bowser::horse::thankyou:

 

[Mr J]

If you think travel, a great nightlife, fashion etc are not available in this country then you must be living under a rock out in the central Australian desert somewhere.

It's relative, as what you or we may consider great may be relatively weak compared to other nations. You must be taking this personally if you're trying to defend Australia on these points. Travel, all I will say is that we're one continent, country and culture, and that there is an entire world out there. Nightlife, it pales in comparison to many other countries if you're looking for a long night, party, clubbing etc atmospheres. We do pubs well. Fashion? If you really want to travel the fashion circuts, you wouldn't spend much time in Australia.

It's pretty darned silly to suggest that opportunities are not available to the majority.

You still don't get it. I'm not going to get into it in depth, as I'm sure I made sense earlier. All opportunities are limited, whether it is by intelligence, willpower, supply and demand, socio-economic status, or many, many other reasons. Not everyone can own your 15 houses, I'm not going to say why as it should be obvious. Not everyone can save $100 per week or even wants to save $100 per week. Hoarding cash isn't necessarily an opportunity, as it may out-weigh any change in standard of living.

The majority of people can work and save money if they set their minds to it. They can invest their savings in growth assets if they wish to. In so doing, they have the potential to improve their lives and even become financially wealthy, with the improved lifestyle and higher living standards that usually accompany an improved financial situation.

You're concentrating on the individual rather than the big picture. An individual has the opportunity to do as you say, but people as a whole do not, whether it's due to personal limits, human nature, compromise etc.

Sure there are people who, for whatever reason, are not going to take advantage of their opportunities.
But that doesn't alter the fact that good opportunities are available to the majority of us in this country.

This is most people. Opportunities also come in all shapes and sizes, so the opportunities available to one person may be completely different to those available to another. You seem to be quite dismissive or out of touch with human nature and our thought-process at this time.

It's pretty feeble the way you're dodging and weaving and twisting on the subject of baby boomers and generations as you try to lay blame.
Get over your obsession with blame, forget about categorising generations, open your eyes and start realising that rather than blaming anyone, you ought to be commending society for the tremendous advances we've made, the country we've all helped to shape, and the free and wonderful lifestyle we've created in the best country on Earth.

Again, you're completely misinterpreting what I have said. I'm not blaming the baby boomers in the way that you think I am. I don't have an obsession with blame. I'm not categorising generations.

Commending society? The country we've all helped shape? Free and wonderful lifestyle? The best country? That's all subjective, but if you don't understand that then you're not going to understand most of what I say.

And if you disagree that Australia is the best country on Earth

I haven't, and I never suggested it wasn't. You have just been hearing what you want to hear so you can argue with it.

Calliope

It's difficult for us normal people to undertand how some of these characters think.

It's difficult only because you can't see beyond your own perspective.

I get heartily sick of these people who moan and whinge and try to lay blame. I wish they'd piss off and go somewhere else to live

I haven't been moaning or blaming anyone, at least blame in the way you think of blame.

 

[robots]

Calliope

It's difficult for us normal people to undertand how some of these characters think.

Maybe he wants to blame us for......

Creating all the opportunities we have.
The freedom we enjoy.
The laid back Australian lifestyle we cherish.
The fact that we're weathering this recession better than most countries.
The freedom of speech we enjoy.
The Australian spirit that's responsible for so many of our men and women answering the call to defend our country whenever our freedom is threatened by war.
The development of technology that's made our lives easier.
The shorter working hours that gave us more leisure time with friends and families.
Our free education and health systems.
Our social welfare system that looks after those who can't look after themselves.
Or for a hundred other benefits we take for granted in this country.....benefits that are absent in many other countries.

I get heartily sick of these people who moan and whinge and try to lay blame. I wish they'd piss off and go somewhere else to live.

hello,

top post man,

yes we living the life here in this country alright

sure are different to the rest of the places around the world

thankyou
associate professor robots

 

[Glen48]

Would the banks give me a temporary loan for 7 yrs?