The Australian Muslim Party

I don't think this is a good idea at all.

State and religion should be separate.

This new party will gain a seat in the Senate come next election.

DB008 said:

I don't think this is a good idea at all.

State and religion should be separate.

This new party will gain a seat in the Senate come next election.

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Hopefully it will be as popular as Christian Democratic Party

Tisme said:

Hopefully it will be as popular as Christian Democratic Party

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Well thanks to Fred our NSW electricity assets are going to be sold off to corporations who care more about profits than they do about the consumer.

Hopefully the AMP will NOT be as successful as the Christian Democrats.

luutzu said:

You haven't watched the news? If a Muslim, or any Australian, associate themselves with a terrorists, their doors get kicked in and they get picked up. If they commit terrorism or even plan or threatens it, they broke the law and goes to prison.

So trouble makers and friends get rounded up... just we don't shoot them on suspicion or when they're unarmed - we round them up, scared them a bit, let them know we're watching, and let the lawyers do their work.

We can't deport them if they're born here and hold its citizenship. Should we start deporting based on crime or based on crime and ethnicity?

Sharia Law, or cultural practices that go against Australian laws are not permitted. So while some Muslim family may practice sharia law and that law or any of their practices oppress, abuse or otherwise mistreat their wife and children... the Australian law and authority is only a phone call away. So I don't know what you're worried about.

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Refugees do not burden the national treasury. They costs a couple of cents on the grand scale, but those will be returned with interests and ongoing contributions... studies have shown this to be the case, look it up man.

You know what other welfare recipient suck the national treasury dry and we don't know about it? Corporations like Chevron who pay 147 or so dollars, yea, dollars, on some $1.7Billion in profit.... The list goes on and on.

So these corporations take the country's finite natural resources, use some magic accounting that's legal somehow and poof... what profit?


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So is it to our national interests to fly half way round the world and bomb some place we're directed to by uncle sam? We're spending at least $500 million a year - fixed costs, the bombs and fuel are variable costs... So on these ventures, we get to bomb evil doers who are generally bad, but are really bad to us because they kinda not like their country being liberated by foreigners.

Does that serve our interests? I could think of a few schools or scholarships or housing for the poor that $500M could go towards right here at home.

But we have to do it because? Else they will buy a ticket, skirt our seas to get us?

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I am afraid you are completely disillusioned and off the thread as well.:topic

How much influence will the Grand Mufti hold over the AMP after his remarks about the Paris attacks.

There are Muslim Arabs living in Australia who say we won't be taking any notice of this guy as he is not one of us.

So are Muslims united?.....Perhaps we may even see Muslims fighting Muslims in Australia as they are doing in the middle east.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...deal-with-public/story-fnyenpo3-1227614461649

The office of the Grand Mufti of Australia is in need of reform that would make it more consultative and accountable, observers and *Islamic academics say.

Mehmet Ozalp, the executive director of the Islamic Sciences and Research Association in Sydney, said Grand Mufti Egyptian-born scholar Ibrahim Abu Mohammed had good intentions but there was “a communication barrier” that needed to be overcome.

Dr Abu Mohammed, who only uses Arabic in public, has attracted controversy for repeatedly making what can appear to be ill-*advised remarks on terrorism and the Muslim world.

“In an ideal situation, a functioning mufti’s office would have a kind of bureaucracy, a secretariat and different commissions,” Mr Ozalp said.

“Australian Muslims need a well-functioning, well represented Muslim office, and the current Mufti’s office is still developing to get to that ideal state.

“The Mufti is doing his best — he has improved the office. For the first time, he established an actual, physical office, and he’s been trying to get funding and people working for him fulltime.

“Islam is not a religion where there is a church structure, and I don’t think the office of the mufti could ever be like (an) archbishop’s.”

Dr Abu Mohammed, a Sunni cleric, is Australia’s third grand mufti, having been appointed in 2011 to succeed Melbourne Sheik Fehmi Naji, a Melbourne Lebanese imam generally seen as a moderate but who caused controversy when, on assuming the post in 2007, he questioned whether Osama bin Laden had been *responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

Sheik Fehmi succeeded controversial leader Taj El-Din Hilaly, an Egyptian Australian imam who held the honorary post between 1988 and 2007.

Sheik Hilaly repeatedly attracted criticism for comments such as one describing “immodestly” dressed women as “uncovered meat” who were to blame if they were attacked.

The grand mufti is appointed from within the Australian *National Imams Council and speaks on the council’s behalf.

His main function is making fatwas, or determinations on *Islamic law.

Unlike in other countries where the position exists, the Australian grand mufti receives no government funding and has no input into government policy.

In the Muslim world, the title dates back to the late 16th-century Ottoman Empire with the grand mufti of Istanbul, who was the first to be recognised as being senior to all other muftis.

Critics of the system in Australia point out that Dr Abu Mohammed does not even represent all Australian Muslims.

Islamic academic Raihan *Ismail said there were a range of Muslim communities, including the nation’s small Shia population, who did not come under the Mufti’s sway.

“We don’t really have a leader, someone like the Pope, that can issue a fatwa,” Dr Ismail said.

“It’s a problem when you have religious leaders and muftis not necessarily accepted as (everyone’s) representative. (There are) different ethnicities too. Those who are not Arab can say he doesn’t really speak for us. It’s a bit difficult.”

Mr Ozalp said yesterday that two statements issued by Dr Abu Mohammad after the Paris *attacks, the first of which *described “racism, Islamophobia and duplicitous foreign policies” as “causative factors” for terrorist *attacks, “could have been *expressed better”.

“To explain that complex idea in one sentence was ambitious,’’ Mr Ozalp said.

noco said:

What a lot of rot you speak...Is this only dirt you can come up in the reference to "Nazi" and ethnic cleansing...That is the Islamic method of intimidation and fear.

Australia has opened their hearts to a lot people who in many cases are ungrateful for what has been done for them.

This is why I say if you are not happy with the Australian way of life...if you are not prepared to stand up and fight for this country's freedom...if you are not prepared to assimilate and accept the Australian laws and regulations....if you are not prepared to sing our National anthem instead of turning your back, then you are not one of us.

You are not welcome.

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You do a lot of "chest thumping" but have few ideas, except the usual clichés like "sing our National anthem" with GUSTO.

See if you agree with this idea Noco? Ban ALL religious based schools, muslem, catholic, anglican, the whole bloody lot of them.

As DB008 pointed out "State and religion should be separate".

noco said:

I am afraid you are completely disillusioned and off the thread as well.:topic

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Might not fit with your worldview but doesn't mean it's wrong noco.

Look up the TPP... see how that trade agreement will affect Australian workers, food safety and a speed up that race to the bottom.

Macquack said:

See if you agree with this idea Noco? Ban ALL religious based schools, muslem, catholic, anglican, the whole bloody lot of them.

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Not ban, but certainly not fund.

SirRumpole said:

Not ban, but certainly not fund.

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I don't see it quite like this.

They should be funded but at a rate below what public schools get funded at which is what happens at present.

My mother described to me what happened in the 60s (I think?) when the catholic schools lost their gov funding.

The catholic schools told parents to send all of their children to the nearest state schools till it was sorted.

Check mate for the gov at the time.

Some parents want their kids brought up in a religious environment. I am not saying the following to be argumentative as I understand different people have different views and I don't know with any certainty but: religious education in my view does have a propensity to imbue kids with a moral compass.

I also understand that I have to pay a premium for this due to both losing some gov support and giving my kids access to indoor basketball courts / good sports equipment / grand pianos etc which I see as fair.

Take the gov support away though and given my fees would double (guessing?) that would be three kids back in 100pc state funded schooling. At a guess I would not be the only person at this margin.

Edit to add: I should say I went through state schooling and am a supporter of it. It was actually my missus who pushed for private education. I now see the value in it to be fair to her.

Edit 2: yeh it prob still has grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. Wonder if that's the schooling.

Macquack said:

You do a lot of "chest thumping" but have few ideas, except the usual clichés like "sing our National anthem" with GUSTO.

See if you agree with this idea Noco? Ban ALL religious based schools, muslem, catholic, anglican, the whole bloody lot of them.

As DB008 pointed out "State and religion should be separate".

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I don't hear the Catholic and Anglican schools preaching hatred to their students....Do the Catholics preach to the kids, ha, if you are not a Catholic we are going to kill you.......It only happens in the Muslim schools.

If the AMP do get a seat in the lower house or the Senate, which is most unlikely, they will have very little muscle to thump the table....Not forgetting of course we already have a Muslim in the lower house under the LUG party banner....It will be interesting to see if Ed Kuseck jumps ship from the ALP to the AMP?


The state has a curriculum to follow and the Islamic schools thumb their noses at it.....If the Islamic movement want to continue with their tirade teachings then go back to your Muslim country of origin irrespective whether you are a refugee or a second or third generation....There is no tolerance for this caper in Australia.....Join us in our way of life or move out.

You seem to be an advocate of the Islamic movement from the way you sympathize with them.....Perhaps you are one of a kind.

Tom32 said:

Some parents want their kids brought up in a religious environment. I am not saying the following to be argumentative as I understand different people have different views and I don't know with any certainty but: religious education in my view does have a propensity to imbue kids with a moral compass.

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OK , maybe a compromise.

Cut funding to non government schools who don't achieve a 10% better pass rate in STEM subjects than state schools.

The taxpayer should fund skills that are useful to society as a whole, not for passing on archaic teachings.

I say no government funding to Muslims schools unless they follow the state curriculum and drop their hatred preaching of Christians and infidels with strict monitoring but that will never happen.......

The Koran is the Koran and must be followed whether you are a moderate Muslim (sleeping cells) or a radical......The Koran will never be rewritten in Australia or any where else in the world.

SirRumpole said:

OK , maybe a compromise.

Cut funding to non government schools who don't achieve a 10% better pass rate in STEM subjects than state schools.

The taxpayer should fund skills that are useful to society as a whole, not for passing on archaic teachings.

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Sounds good except it would be best they factor in the kids background / parents income / English second language / disabilities etc of all students. Then perhaps fund based on results calibrated for what they started with.

This is pretty much what the gonski review came up with. Funding more for those in need, don't think there is a reward for good achievement though?

I reckon that would make sense.

Liberals already have it covered:

http://australiafirstparty.net/mike-baird-convinced-hes-muslim-western-sydneys-liberal-mufti/

noco said:

The Koran is the Koran and must be followed whether you are a moderate Muslim (sleeping cells) or a radical......The Koran will never be rewritten in Australia or any where else in the world.

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I am no religious scholar but the little I understand from this book I think may sway your view?

Look at What was happening when the Koran was written:

This was written at a time that tribes enslaved / killed children. Tribals led extremely debaucherous lives. No regard to their fellow human.

This was not a culture like that of the Jews or the Romans where a new religion could be practiced from within albeit with significant danger. Less danger for Christians to turn the cheek though than warfare against the Jews / Romans.

Early muslims had to carve out their niche in the world and they did this initially through mass exodus where Christians offered them protection for which they get kudos for.

They then invaded their old lands and got rid of the tribal rules and implemented new laws which protected the weak from strong / women from men among other things. They Brought civilising forces to barbaric people.

They would never have achieved what they did by turning the other cheek like our disciples did etc. rather like the Jews rise to a kingdom it came about partly through warfare.

Their holy book like the Old Testament reflects this violence as you would expect it to.

A second point rather like the bible there are scholars who study the Koran for much of their lives and still do not agree on what is metaphor and what is to be taken literally. Even what it means. Context is often important.

So i don't think it's as simple as the Koran is the Koran. I think we do ourselves no favours as the west to say: "our understanding of this religion of yours is that you are not a Muslim unless you protest violently against all non-Muslims."

Tom32 said:

I am no religious scholar but the little I understand from this book I think may sway your view?

Look at What was happening when the Koran was written:

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As you say, the Bible and Koran were both written in different times and for different times, but religious people blindly assume that they both must apply today as much as they did then.

That is the intellectual roadblock that must be overcome, convincing religious people that the world has moved on, and so should they.

SirRumpole said:

As you say, the Bible and Koran were both written in different times and for different times, but religious people blindly assume that they both must apply today as much as they did then.

That is the intellectual roadblock that must be overcome, convincing religious people that the world has moved on, and so should they.

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That's it.

I think if you look at the context you can take what was written and still use it as a positive influence but if you just use the ordinary meaning of the words isolated from why they were said / written it doesn't work.

Even the thoughts around cloven hoofs etc. this all made sense when some animals carried disease. Is it relevant today? I'd say not, but some Jews still adopt this because it is written.

That said there are of course some Christians who justify their intolerance on scriptures and Muslims who justify their violence on scriptures so how you break down this intellectual roadblock as you put it is key. Maybe time will sort it, however it appears fundamentalism / literal interpretation is becoming more popular in religion as time passes rather than less so.

Looks like Islam and Muslim will have to evil and barbaric until their oil runs out.

luutzu said:

Looks like Islam and Muslim will have to evil and barbaric until their oil runs out.

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A bit off topic but nevertheless interesting...I did watch it through to the end.:topic

I believe the USA now only import 10% of their needs from the middle east......The Americans have enough of their own oil reserves to last 1000 years......Perhaps they are hanging onto it until the middle east oil runs out whenever that may be.