The Australian Muslim Party

[sptrawler]

I was wondering, do the Muslim guys, let the women vote, or do they do the voting for them?

 

[Wysiwyg]

I take it Muslim Australians shouldn't get politically active in a legal, democratic, peaceful way in Australia?

Of course they can though I will not vote for them.

I seriously think you guys are good people, I mean that. You just don't know how to put the shoe on the other foot. And that's a shame.

No shame from me. I choose not to follow their religion (put their shoe on).

You guys are good and decent people because you hate terrorist and terrorism, you loathe a fanatic religion you perceive to be oppressive and murderous; hates it because it want to take over the world and killing innocent people. That's a good and righteous thing to dislike in my book, if that counts for anything.

Every sane civilised being feels this way.

Do we have any idea what has and is being done in our name over there?

Drones taking out targets without really being sure if it is "the target", and everyone around that target is kill and everything around it blown to bits and it's put down as a success against terrorism.

There's an instance in a mountainous region of Pakistan where a drone hit a target they suspect of being an Arab in that region... and obviously any Arab in that region is up to no good. How did they know the target is an Arab? He's taller than the average people in that region. So they blew him and his terrorists up.

Turns out the guy is a teacher surrounded by students... yea, a teacher looks taller than the children around him and "we" blew them up. Oopps. There's no need to guess what the villagers think of western civilisation after picking up their children by the pieces.

This case was not purposeful or premeditated. In war, many innocent people are killed.

Those people deserved it because...? Because some terrorist murder our people?

Those "innocent" people did not deserve to die and were not killed for revenge.

There's this scene in Ken Burn's "The Civil War", towards the end, where a lady in Atlanta cursed General Sherman of the US Union army, blaming him for torching and plundering his way all through her state of Georgia to the Atlantic. To which Sherman reply... it is not I who burn your city, that torch was lit many years ago when your state rebel and fired against the union and you supported it. The flame simply arrive home with me behind it.

They won the war and peace ensued.

The kind of rubbish I hear against an entire people...

Wrong!!! It's the extremism that is spawned from within Islam and the ideologies|practices|teachings that are different to ours.

Do we seriously believe that a people is so bad, a religion is so evil, that all it teaches and all them people do is wake up, pray to their Allah and find ways to murder us because they hate our values? Hate our way of life?

I am sure there are good people within the religion. The task is to weed out the bad ones.

 

[qldfrog]

I
Do we seriously believe that ....a religion is so evil, that all it teaches and all them people do is wake up, pray to their Allah and find ways to murder us because they hate our values? Hate our way of life?

if you seriously can read Luutzu, read the Koran, all the bits even the one you will not like;
then , and then only may you start to understand [ I do not ask you to agree] what I have been ranting here well before Charlie hebdo, or Paris attack.
If a reasonable person, you sjhould agree that this information which is the ONLY knowledge of millions and the reference for a culture should be something you should know.
Then and then only should you be able to make that kind of above statement.

 

[noco]

Well at least the Muslims that feel disenfranchised will get to vent politically, overall i reckon this is a good idea, who knows they may even end up with a few pollys.

Then they will want to take the next step and introduce Sharia law....No thanks.

Some people just don't get it......I have said it before and I will say it again, they are infiltrating the Western World whether they are moderates of radicals for the simple fact of world domination and one of their aims is to destroy the Western World economy.

I was even reprimanded by the ASF moderators some years ago for using the term "INFILTRATION"....I was even accused of being racist....Well, call me what you like but I say lets restore Australia and rid this element of terror out of our country,,...If they want to come to Australia, become an Australian, speak English, accept our way of life and work for a ferkin living instead of bludgeoning off the tax payers generous welfare system.

They have been trying for 1400 years and have failed and they will fail again.

 

[Tisme]

I am sure there are good people within the religion. The task is to weed out the bad ones.

You might need sh17load of Zero Weed Wands for that task!

Seriously, what yardstick do we measure "good" ? I can't put a good tag on people who who won't denounce killers, who would betray our national trust in favour of instruction from missing links extolling rubbish memes, of people who overtly parade a protest uniform that is testament to neandertals walking amongst us, who have a millennial tradition of servitude to viscious overlords ....

seriously these people have been subjugated and conditioned to serfdom for so long they are a drone culture who are likely incapable of breaking away from their spiritual/political/bullying captors. Their idea of good is not the same as our Christian roots "good".

 

[SirRumpole]

You might need sh17load of Zero Weed Wands for that task!

Seriously, what yardstick do we measure "good" ? I can't put a good tag on people who who won't denounce killers, who would betray our national trust in favour of instruction from missing links extolling rubbish memes, of people who overtly parade a protest uniform that is testament to neandertals walking amongst us, who have a millennial tradition of servitude to viscious overlords ....

seriously these people have been subjugated and conditioned to serfdom for so long they are a drone culture who are likely incapable of breaking away from their spiritual/political/bullying captors. Their idea of good is not the same as our Christian roots "good".

"Drone culture". Very well put.

Muslims are not being marginalised BECAUSE of their religion they are being marginalised BY their religion.

By their overlords instructions, refusing to open their eyes to the progress of society and science they are being kept medievialised , slaves to an archaic theocracy that has no relevance today except for a few despots who wield the power of the Koran for their own power and control.

Sad to see so many people culturally and intellectually enslaved.

 

[Tom32]

Muslims are not being marginalised BECAUSE of their religion they are being marginalised BY their religion.

By their overlords instructions, refusing to open their eyes to the progress of society and science they are being kept medievialised , slaves to an archaic theocracy that has no relevance today except for a few despots who wield the power of the Koran for their own power and control.

This is the unfortunate thing: if the ISIS society can be considered any kind of society it would be closest to feudal where the moderate dissenter is put down.

Unfortunately for reasons I don't understand parts of the Middle East only seem work with regimes that rule in this totalitarian fashion whether secular like the Saddam regime or regimes like ISIS.

One thing that worries me about the Wests response though is that as democracies we have much less control over what people see and say. How do we prevent people from turning away from western values in the case of those Western raised terrorists.

I agree completely with this from changing minds (reference below):

"Propaganda happens in societies where people are depersonalized and forced into masses, where their sense of identity comes more from the group than from their own sense of mission or being. Thus people belong to religious, political, work and social groups, from which they take their beliefs and values."

My view is if being part of our democracy makes them feel more like Australians and less like marginalised people than this Muslim party can only be a positive. This does assume the leaders of said party are moderate which is likely given most most Australian Muslims are.

http://changingminds.org/techniques/propaganda/modern_ propaganda.htm

 

[luutzu]

if you seriously can read Luutzu, read the Koran, all the bits even the one you will not like;
then , and then only may you start to understand [ I do not ask you to agree] what I have been ranting here well before Charlie hebdo, or Paris attack.
If a reasonable person, you sjhould agree that this information which is the ONLY knowledge of millions and the reference for a culture should be something you should know.
Then and then only should you be able to make that kind of above statement.

I don't like any religion. They're all crazy to me.

So when the Arab terrorists blew up Beirut, did they do it because their victims are Westerners? Did their motivation came from the Koran to kill their fellow Muslims? Was it a clash of civilisation?

Oh wait, sectarian, Muslim on Muslim killings right?

So when our pilot drop their bombs, was it done out of the Bible and the Western civilisation way or just some commander and president ordered that town be flatten, that target be destroyed and the place "cleaned up"?

If we keep thinking in these simplistic, religious/civlisation clashes, good against evil... sooner or later one of us will get kill by their crazies and our crazies will use our death to kill their crazies along with all the "collateral damage". Keep this up and there won't be any civilisation left to clash with.

 

[luutzu]

"Drone culture". Very well put.

Muslims are not being marginalised BECAUSE of their religion they are being marginalised BY their religion.

By their overlords instructions, refusing to open their eyes to the progress of society and science they are being kept medievialised , slaves to an archaic theocracy that has no relevance today except for a few despots who wield the power of the Koran for their own power and control.

Sad to see so many people culturally and intellectually enslaved.

They're not the only ones enslaved.

Name the last war we fought where we're the bad guys. Maybe Vietnam? But with Vietnam, we weren't bad, we made a mistake or something right?

How come we always fight wars against evil people; people with nothing better to do but will come for all of us... then when we leave them alone, they just stay there, pick up the pieces and go on with their lives?


We feel for the innocent French, the Americans... and we rightly should. But for the 2 million dead Iraqis since Bush and Blair and Howard goes marching from behind... ehhh... The population of all of Sydney got killed and we hardly know about it.

Then people who are fleeing the crazies we're fighting against... most of them are evil, or could be evil... so lock them out, send them back or send a tent or two over.

Mate, if that is not propaganda at its finest, I don't know what is.

 

[luutzu]

Of course they can though I will not vote for them.

No shame from me. I choose not to follow their religion (put their shoe on).

Every sane civilised being feels this way.

This case was not purposeful or premeditated. In war, many innocent people are killed.

Those "innocent" people did not deserve to die and were not killed for revenge.

They won the war and peace ensued.

Wrong!!! It's the extremism that is spawned from within Islam and the ideologies|practices|teachings that are different to ours.

I am sure there are good people within the religion. The task is to weed out the bad ones.

No one asks you to follow their religion or vote for any political party.

When's the last time you go beat up your neighbour for loud music or beat up someone who look at you funny or do things you don't like?

Somehow, we're told, Muslims and their Koran spawned terrorists to go and take on the might of the deadliest militaries the world has ever seen. All because rock music, women in bikinis and maybe eating pork really really cause them to want to die killing others they don't know doing stuff they don't like.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Unfortunately for reasons I don't understand parts of the Middle East only seem work with regimes that rule in this totalitarian fashion whether secular like the Saddam regime or regimes like ISIS.

http://changingminds.org/techniques/propaganda/modern_ propaganda.htm

When fear has taken hold of a culture, people seek strong leaders. The more fear, the more certain and powerful the leader needs to be.

So when you infect an entire people with a belief in Allah who will inflict the most horrible afterlife misery if you don't pray 5 times a day, then suddenly your whole life seems very wobbly. This sort of hard-to-define anxiety is impossible for any human to tolerate, so a sure-footed totalitarian leader provides a feeling of certainty. Such a leader waltzes into office without resistance.

You can see it in the school environment. Remember back... the teacher leaves the class room for a moment. Certain kids (the ones with less secure parental bonding) can very suddenly go crazy in those moments. It's because that sudden unexpected absence triggers the same painful feelings of betrayal/rejection/loneliness that happens at home. The only way they know how to cope with that lack of certainty and connection is to act out and hope that so much noise is made that the principle comes and sorts things out. It's a way of restoring order. They often do quite hilarious things too, which gets a huge laugh out of everyone, thereby reinforcing the cycle.

 

[Tisme]

You can see it in the school environment. Remember back... the teacher leaves the class room for a moment. Certain kids (the ones with less secure parental bonding) can very suddenly go crazy in those moments. It's because that sudden unexpected absence triggers the same painful feelings of betrayal/rejection/loneliness that happens at home. The only way they know how to cope with that lack of certainty and connection is to act out and hope that so much noise is made that the principle comes and sorts things out. It's a way of restoring order. They often do quite hilarious things too, which gets a huge laugh out of everyone, thereby reinforcing the cycle.

Sounds like a Liberal Party rally outside Parliament House during Gillard's reign.... they felt unloved

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Sounds like a Liberal Party rally outside Parliament House during Gillard's reign.... they felt unloved

On a smaller scale maybe!

The most powerful of leaders provide both the fear and the solution to the fear. It locks everything in place perfectly. In China, if you start questioning the Regime, you could easily end up a missing person. That's the fear. The solution to that fear is to promise the poor masses they will one day be rich... if only they work hard enough. Westerners just assume there's something about the Chinese that makes them "hard workers". Well yeh there is... they bought the lie. Whilst it's true that a middle class has emerged from a largely agrarian society, it's happened through the exploitation of a massive underclass of workers. A North Korean style of National pride is also used as a solution to the fear.

I think I'm done talking religion and fear politics for a while. Making me depressed.

 

[Tom32]

So when you infect an entire people with a belief in Allah who will inflict the most horrible afterlife misery if you don't pray 5 times a day, then suddenly your whole life seems very wobbly. This sort of hard-to-define anxiety is impossible for any human to tolerate, so a sure-footed totalitarian leader provides a feeling of certainty. Such a leader waltzes into office without resistance.

.

How then can we as a Western democracy with free speech (sure with some limits) and open forums for ideas compete with these societies war for the hearts and minds of marginalised people in western countries.

Luutzu brought up an interesting point about Vietnam. Oddly enough throughout this war American journalists were free to publish damning evidence that we were wrong.

These clippings are now on display at the American war museum in Ho Chi Minh. A western soldier sitting / posing in front of a pile of fallen foes heads isn't that far (same?) from the barbarity going on in Iraq now.

My view is that our only weapon if we are to keep our values in tact, is for all of us to, as much as possible make these people in our countries feel like part of australia. I didn't understand why Bob Carr made a speech about inclusion of minorities at the 2012 ANZAC day ceremony in Villers Breteneux (I was even a little dark about it at the time in truth) but I am starting to understand now. If we take every opportunity we can to make all Australians feel like part of our society we might be a chance at least of not breeding up home grown terrorists.

Again why I think a Muslim political party is a good idea if it makes them feel like part of our democracy even if it is only a tiny incremental step on the way to inclusion.

 

[qldfrog]

So when the Arab terrorists blew up Beirut, did they do it because .....? Did their motivation came from the Koran to kill their fellow Muslims?

OF COURSE, they consider the shiites infidels and they should either convert or be slayed, as you or I in the view of a religion which is not only a religion, but also a culture, a set of laws governing every aspect of a strict muslim.

Whether you like religion or not does not matter; you can not talk about Islam and muslims if you have not at least tried to read the Koran to understand then you can make your own mind.
You want to see the current war as a parallel of the US vs communism or similar war, you parallel the hords of invaders in Europe to what your family or nears have done in the past: did your father left Asia leaving behind kids and wives.I doubt

As to a muslim party, if they have the number and if this can jolt the masses to react why not.
As said before islam is more than a religion and no strict muslim will rest until the Sharia is in place and the infidels slain, be it on the north pole, in Australia or in Europe/middle east.

 

[Tom32]

As said before islam is more than a religion and no strict muslim will rest until the Sharia is in place and the infidels slain, be it on the north pole, in Australia or in Europe/middle east.

I think your choice of the words "strict Muslim" might envelope too many people and is unfair on many people frankly.

While their values seem old fashioned in some ways, and a literal reading of parts of the Koran may paint a grim picture, other parts contradict this rather like our own good book.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't doubt that many would consider themselves strict Muslims And yet do not endorse the violence of ISIS.

 

[noco]

I think your choice of the words "strict Muslim" might envelope too many people and is unfair on many people frankly.

While their values seem old fashioned in some ways, and a literal reading of parts of the Koran may paint a grim picture, other parts contradict this rather like our own good book.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't doubt that many would consider themselves strict Muslims And yet do not endorse the violence of ISIS.

Would you really expect them to endorse violence?.....Of course not.

If it walks like a duck, it is a duck.

If it quacks like duck, it is a duck.

A Muslim is a Muslim...they all read from the same song book.....the kids in Muslims schools are brain washed 5 times a day....If you are not a Muslim you must be a Christian or an infidel and the latter two should be eliminated....So in their minds we must go out and kill those who are not Muslims.....What will those kids be like in 10 or 15 years time when their heads are full of inbred hatred.?

 

[luutzu]

Would you really expect them to endorse violence?.....Of course not.

If it walks like a duck, it is a duck.

If it quacks like duck, it is a duck.

A Muslim is a Muslim...they all read from the same song book.....the kids in Muslims schools are brain washed 5 times a day....If you are not a Muslim you must be a Christian or an infidel and the latter two should be eliminated....So in their minds we must go out and kill those who are not Muslims.....What will those kids be like in 10 or 15 years time when their heads are full of inbred hatred.?

So who do you walk like and quack like noco?

I'm sure there's a bunch of "white" people you don't like either; a bunch of greenies, lefties, commies who may walk and talk like you but whose beliefs and actions you don't agree with too. No?

 

[luutzu]

OF COURSE, they consider the shiites infidels and they should either convert or be slayed, as you or I in the view of a religion which is not only a religion, but also a culture, a set of laws governing every aspect of a strict muslim.

Whether you like religion or not does not matter; you can not talk about Islam and muslims if you have not at least tried to read the Koran to understand then you can make your own mind.
You want to see the current war as a parallel of the US vs communism or similar war, you parallel the hords of invaders in Europe to what your family or nears have done in the past: did your father left Asia leaving behind kids and wives.I doubt

As to a muslim party, if they have the number and if this can jolt the masses to react why not.
As said before islam is more than a religion and no strict muslim will rest until the Sharia is in place and the infidels slain, be it on the north pole, in Australia or in Europe/middle east.

Come on qldfrog.

I might be better placed to talk about Muslims than most since I went to school with a few of them; had HS class mates who are Muslim and Arabs; and where I live is full of them. They don't have fangs or horns man.

I understand your outrage, but you know you shouldn't direct at an entire people. I mean no one is making excuses for the terrorists and their crimes, no one is a friend of ISIS... but cursing people who look like them or are running away from them is misredirected and I don't think will answer or solve the pile we find ourselves in.

 

[MrBurns]

Fat chance starting a Muslim party here.....

Haven't seen this in the mainstream media - but for what it's worth.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pu...is-financed-40-countries/#tvgJXhuP6h3oLLcF.01