The Albanese government

[JohnDe]

Not really organised labour was in its infancy, note how long the Australian Labor party has been around easily the most stable and reliable political movement ever in the history of Australia that's always acted for the betterment of middle to lower classes of Australians (the vast majority).

"The ALP was not founded as a federal party until after the first sitting of the Australian parliament in 1901. It is regarded as descended from labour parties founded in the various Australian colonies by the emerging labour movement in Australia, formally beginning in 1891. Colonial labour parties contested seats from 1891, and federal seats following Federation at the 1901 federal election. The ALP formed the world's first labour party government and the world's first democratic socialist or social democratic government at a national level.[6] At the 1910 federal election, Labor was the first party in Australia to win a majority in either house of the Australian parliament. In every election since 1910 Labor has either served as the governing party or the opposition. There have been 13 Labor prime ministers and 10 periods of federal Labor governments.

The Labor party is often called the party of unions due to its close ties to the labour movement in Australia, with the majority of trade unions being affiliated with the Labor party. The party is equally controlled by unions and rank-and-file party members through affiliated unions being granted 50% of delegates at each state and national conference.[7]

At the federal and state/colony level, the Australian Labor Party predates both the British Labour Party and the New Zealand Labour Party in party formation, government, and policy implementation.[8] Internationally, the ALP is a member of the Progressive Alliance, a network of progressive and social democratic parties,[9] having previously been a member of the Socialist International."

Australian Labor Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, sorry, wrong wording on my behalf.

I was lucky enough to have had decent history lessons in High school, and I also had Politics as one of my subjects. I was quite fascinated by our history and political parties, gave me a good understanding for all parties, and some compassion for the people that stand up to be our representatives.

 

[Smurf1976]

I doubt if you can blame this all on "progressives". Yes, Hawke and Keating cut tariffs but the others didn't put them back again.

It seems to be a ratchet that only goes in one direction, hence why there's now such resistance to even the slightest change on anything.

Once one side takes a step down, the other does nothing to get back up. Hence the mess society's in.

The Voice was voted down not because Australians don't like Aboriginal people but simply because of the fear it'd end up as another uncontrollable monster.

 

[IFocus]

The Voice was voted down not because Australians don't like Aboriginal people but simply because of the fear it'd end up as another uncontrollable monster.

The fear was a successful negative campaign planted buy the No proponent's, any government of the day had total control or at least the parliament of the day would have as it should.

The question is what allowed the falsehoods that were perpetrated to stand?

 

[IFocus]

Meanwhile back at the ranch

Dutton admits soliciting Rinehart’s private jet for domestic flight​

• McKenzie sidesteps questions over flight upgrades: Bridget McKenzie has refused to say if the country’s three major airlines have alerted her to any flight upgrades.

Flight upgrades: Peter Dutton admits soliciting Rinehart’s private jet for domestic flight

Peter Dutton concedes his office directly asked Gina Rinehart’s office for jet use; Bridget McKenzie side-steps questions over flight upgrades. How the day unfolded.

www.afr.com

 

[SirRumpole]

The fear was a successful negative campaign planted buy the No proponent's, any government of the day had total control or at least the parliament of the day would have as it should.

The question is what allowed the falsehoods that were perpetrated to stand?

No, given the disaster that was ATSIC, I think @Smurf1976 is basically correct. Electing the representatives from 250 tribes would have been a nightmare, and then each tribe would be fighting for their own tribe and nothing would get done. It would have ended up a quagmire.

 

[JohnDe]

The fear was a successful negative campaign planted buy the No proponent's, any government of the day had total control or at least the parliament of the day would have as it should.

The question is what allowed the falsehoods that were perpetrated to stand?

No, just a poorly written proposal to change the constitution, which is a sacred document that has served us well.

 

[wayneL]

No, just a poorly written proposal to change the constitution, which is a sacred document that has served us well.

And it was never demonstrated how the change in the constitution would actually help the people that needed help rather than the elites in the Aboriginal industry. All that would have been achieved is a two tier racial structure to be rorted by those with the education to do so, just like ATSIC and all the other structures previously.

"The Vibe" as promoted by Labor was certainly an extremely disingenuous end transparent campaign to try to gaslight the public, and we didn't collectively fall for it.

Blaming racism for the failure of the voice is offensive in the extreme and does nothing other than to soothe the egos of its proponents.... And medium term, sets back any positive workable solutions by years.

 

[Smurf1976]

The fear was a successful negative campaign planted buy the No proponent's, any government of the day had total control or at least the parliament of the day would have as it should.

In my case the reasoning wasn't about the campaigning by either side.

It's more that I'm fed up with governments, of both persuasions, coming up with constant distractions to avoid focusing on the wellbeing of the mainstream working and middle class.

Get that sorted, sort out the housing mess, put some constraints around globalisation, and refocus the economy towards more local production, then I'll be willing to hear about social issues. Not before.

Because this stuff has been ignored for decades to the detriment of mainstream society. Look at what we had and compare that to today - someone starting out at age 18 today is effectively stuffed in comparison to their own parents or grandparents, doubly so if they're male.

So in my view the rejection of the Voice wasn't about Aboriginal people at all, it's something far deeper than that.

For the past few decades, successive governments of both persuasions have all done exactly what the academics, activists, think tanks, media and global institutions told them to do and the results are it's stuffed a good portion of society. Hence we're now seeing a push against anything else they propose no matter what it is, the mainstream middle are just fed up with it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Because this stuff has been ignored for decades to the detriment of mainstream society. Look at what we had and compare that to today - someone starting out at age 18 today is effectively stuffed in comparison to their own parents or grandparents, doubly so if they're male.

Hence the popularity of someone like Trump (sorry for the thread drift), but our two countries are pretty similar in that regard.

People are sick of identity politics. They want reward for effort and achievement and the best people for the jobs, not based on race, gender or perceived discrimination.

If Trump was a decent human being instead of the ahole that he is, he would romp in. Same with Dutton. Although he isn't the poor excuse for a human being that Trump is, he is perceived as being too extreme and aligned too much with the rich and powerful. Even so, he is gaining traction by disaffection with the other side rather than anything really positive in his favour.

There is no centre party that is not in cahoots with or owing allegiance to the vested interests of unions or business. Which is why Australia will continue the downwards slide.

 

[IFocus]

It's more that I'm fed up with governments, of both persuasions, coming up with constant distractions to avoid focusing on the wellbeing of the mainstream working and middle class.

Are they really?

They are by far better off than my parents and in a general sense better off than me in my 30's / 40's.

Just a few things I never had after marriage, paid TV, mobile phones, new car or 4 wheel drives, caravans or campers, rarely ate out, never bought a coffee or take away, no computer, no day care, no government support, no solar to reduce power bills, never bought lunch for work, never drank much alcohol, both my wife and I never had the means or opportunity to go to Uni etc.

Work was remote and very hard until mortgage paid, when working in Perth phone rang 24hrs a day 7 days a week, had a hail damaged car for work, I started work at 5.30 and hoped to get out by sun down never had a lunch break, smoko SFA.

My kids today have all of the about while living pretty good lives, all of the younger surfers in my area are all doing very well along with those with young families.

Edit: one thing I do see is lack of employment security.

 

[sptrawler]

It may have escaped your attention that the CFMEU is in the process of being wound up by the Albanese government.

Why didn't the Coalition do this in their nine years in power?

If the Coalition did it, the country would be out on strike.
Labor are the only ones that can take on the unions, same as Hawke deregistered the BLF from memory.
The reason being a lot of the head honchos of the union have political aspirations, so they have to back Labor, or they have no chance of a political career The rank and file are just cannon fodder. Lol

 

[IFocus]

If the Coalition did it, the country would be out on strike.

Nah they set-up Royal Commissions etc found a couple of corrupt organisers but overall very little everyone knows the big money is the other side builders / developers / councillors / state politicians etc.

Having said that looks like the CFMEU got infected by heavies still their members are doing alright money and conditions wise unlike a lot of subbies and contractors..

 

[SirRumpole]

Having said that looks like the CFMEU got infected by heavies still their members are doing alright money and conditions wise unlike a lot of subbies and contractors..

I wonder what can be said about the quality of the constructions if contracts were granted on the basis of bribes rather than competence?

 

[SirRumpole]

If the Coalition did it, the country would be out on strike.

That's a risk they should take if they really feel there is corruptions in unions.

The ALP take on businesses if they reckon the public is getting a rotten real. (mostly)

 

[IFocus]

I wonder what can be said about the quality of the constructions if contracts were granted on the basis of bribes rather than competence?

Read somewhere construction where unions were involved were better quality but more expensive.

 

[JohnDe]

Read somewhere construction where unions were involved were better quality but more expensive.

Where did you hear that?

I heard that the Royal Adelaide Hospital building had major issues, incorrect room sizes, over budget and over time, and a death on the work site.

Calvary Adelaide is the state's largest private building at 57,000 sqm and at a cost of around $1 million per bed. It compares with the $2.4 billion Royal Adelaide Hospital which cost more than $3 million per bed. There is speculation the new 330-bed WCH will end up costing taxpayers around $5 million a bed.​

‘We can build new WCH in budget, on time’

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...l/news-story/27d15330c0040010ae27ed8940bcdc73

 

[sptrawler]

Nah they set-up Royal Commissions etc found a couple of corrupt organisers but overall very little everyone knows the big money is the other side builders / developers / councillors / state politicians etc.

Having said that looks like the CFMEU got infected by heavies still their members are doing alright money and conditions wise unlike a lot of subbies and contractors..

Yeh, I've been around the traps long enough and personally seen enough, to know how it works.

 

[Smurf1976]

Are they really?

They are by far better off than my parents and in a general sense better off than me in my 30's / 40's.

Just a few things I never had after marriage, paid TV, mobile phones, new car or 4 wheel drives, caravans or campers, rarely ate out, never bought a coffee or take away, no computer, no day care, no government support, no solar to reduce power bills, never bought lunch for work, never drank much alcohol, both my wife and I never had the means or opportunity to go to Uni etc.

Work was remote and very hard until mortgage paid, when working in Perth phone rang 24hrs a day 7 days a week, had a hail damaged car for work, I started work at 5.30 and hoped to get out by sun down never had a lunch break, smoko SFA.

My kids today have all of the about while living pretty good lives, all of the younger surfers in my area are all doing very well along with those with young families.

Edit: one thing I do see is lack of employment security.

This one's complex and it's a discussion I've actually had with a few younger people in recent times.

A few comments:

Technology would've happened regardless, it was a product of science and business not politics.

As adults people get on with their lives, they adapt to the circumstances and make it work as best they can. That doesn't stop them being aware of what those circumstances are however.

Young people aren't as keen on university as you might be assuming. For those not actually working in a recognised profession, they're seeing it as more akin to extortion - pay the uni a fortune to get a degree in order to do a job that any previous generation could've obtained and done without the degree. They see it as a complete waste of 4 years and a lot of money, forced upon them by society. The exception being those who actually are working in a profession that requires a degree

Beyond that it's a general sense of malaise, a sense that everything's just all a bit weak, a lame, slow and really quite second rate compared to the past.

There's a lot of awareness gained via the internet of just how much previous generations got done despite lacking any modern technology to do it with, having to endure really quite miserable circumstances in order to make things happen. Against that backdrop, there's a real sense of disappointment that society isn't progressing, that things aren't being done, and that even the simplest things end up mired in politics and bureaucracy.

Same personally. The previous generations got a house with a big backyard, two cars and a big Hi-Fi in the lounge room. Whilst they might accept it out of necessity, the younger generation knows they've been done over when they end up with an apartment, one car and can't even turn the music up loud or host a party without breaching strata rules. They recognise shrinkflation when they're literally surrounded by it.

That's not to say it's all terrible, I mean people aren't starving and of course there are some who never wanted a house anyway, but there's a definite perception that society's going backwards on various measures.

This survey's from the US but while the issues are different, the overall theme is much the same:

66% of Americans surveyed said their own life is heading in the right direction.

But 72% of Americans said they think national politics is heading in the wrong direction. 70% said the same about their cost of living, it's heading in the wrong direction, whilst 65% are unhappy with immigration and 60% are unhappy with the economy. Even with foreign policy there's a broad feeling that it's going wrong, with 56% of Americans saying it's going in the wrong direction.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-are-divided-top-priorities-next-president

So on one hand people get on with their lives, they don't sit around wallowing, but that doesn't mean they're happy with the situation or the performance of government.

Also from that survey, 35% of Americans surveyed said immigration should be the new president's top priority for their first 100 days in office with the next three highest priorities being income inequality, taxes and health care. In contrast 5% said the environment is the priority, 1% said race relations should be the priority, while gender didn't rate a mention as a separate issue. Therein lies a huge disconnect between the activists, think tanks etc versus the mainstream.

 

[Smurf1976]

I heard that the Royal Adelaide Hospital building had major issues, incorrect room sizes, over budget and over time, and a death on the work site.

And $53k from memory for a basic trades job that took less than a day, almost all that payment being for labour not materials.

But before anyone gets too excited......

That money was almost entirely gobbled up by a big name primary contractor. Not the tradie doing the work and not the union. And it was done after the hospital was open.

Back to my oft made point that government's better off employing it's own trades for maintenance and minor works directly and cutting the contractors out completely, because they always get ripped off.

Like another project not far away where the electrical was done incorrectly and has never been fixed. It works but it'll eventually fail that's a given, it's not up to scratch.

 

[Smurf1976]

A simpler way to look at all that is to ask a question:

How did we get to a point where race, housing, gender or how to generate electricity are even issues?

Rationally they just shouldn't be problems needing public debate and it's only politics that's created that situation in the first place.