The Abbott Government

Smurf1976 · 6 January 2015

It's a state issue but this is the sort of thing that really puts me off the Liberals either state or federal.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/opinion/editorial-a-matter-of-liberty/story-fnj4f64i-1227175282612

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/free-speech-sue-threat/story-fnj4f7k1-1227175410202

I disagree with some of what the Greens and others have to say, but they absolutely do have a right to express their views so far as I'm concerned.

First they wanted to remove the Industrial Commission, then the anti-protest laws, now it's being sued simply for expressing your opinion. It's not hard to see who the Liberals are working for, and it isn't the average citizen that's for sure.

I wonder if comment on this forum to the effect that a company might go broke, be poorly run, produces inferior products or otherwise has problems could become illegal under these laws? That leaves us with only ever saying that share prices go up and all is well. Hmm....

sptrawler · 6 January 2015

Smurf1976 said:
In my present job we do get a number of "certificate optional" sick days each year and personally I've never used anywhere near the lot. Sick leave is for if you actually are sick in my view, it's not an entitlement that should be taken for the sake of it. I suspect that my own view might be biasing my thinking here somewhat, ignoring the extent to which some people probably would rort the system if they could get away with it.

Main reason I mentioned it as an example of inefficiency in the economy, is the difficulty getting in to see a GP when there's a spike in colds etc which happens every winter here. It just seems to be an incredible waste of resources to have people seeing GP's for no reason other than obtaining a piece of paper with no actual medical treatment provided.

Thinking of an other situation with with a similar principle, vehicle accidents. I'm not sure about other states, but in Tas the police have set up an online system for reporting "for the sake of reporting it" vehicle accidents not requiring police to attend. The basic concept is that you phone if you actually do need police to attend the accident scene, but if it's just a minor incident (no injuries, vehicles can be safely driven away) and you're only reporting it in order to keep the insurer happy then you can use the online system instead. It keeps insurers happy without using up police resources with minor incidents.

The medical certificate one might be difficult to address in practice I think, but as a general principle I do think that as a society we do need to be looking at things differently and be willing to accept the removal of unnecessary waste.

The tax system is another one. If an individual with straightforward finances (eg they have a job, a few work-related deductions and a bit of bank interest) feels the need to use a professional to prepare their Tax Return then something is seriously wrong with either the tax system or the individual. I think it was Howard / Costello (from memory) who suggested the idea of just giving everyone an automatic refund of $x and abolishing the minor deductions so as to reduce the administrative burden. In principle that idea seems sensible - same concept as the other things I've mentioned, trying to reduce things which are unnecessary and offer little or no benefit.

Where government comes into all this is leadership. Government really needs to be leading the debate about how to make Australia more efficient and why it needs to be done. At present, we're uncompetitive at just about everything and that's not going to do us any good in the long term.

That ideology really was what Australia was about, only claim it if you need it, now the norm is claim it you may get it.

We really are going down the toilet.IMO

Not wanting to sound like a saint, I'm not.
But, I have had investment properties, I've let them out to "unsavoury" tenants, had a lot of damage and just repaired it.
Always had private health insurance, because I've always had a job and felt I should pay for it.
Always had home and contents insurance and never claimed on it.
Retired from work because of disability, but never applied for disability pension, because I think I've saved enough to support myself. Yet I would have qualified for it.
I guess what I'm saying is, Australia seems to be becoming just like the U.S and U.K, where it is about what I can get for nothing.
The last thing people want to do, is do without.

Those who are working want income tax reduced, those who are retired don't want tax increased and those on welfare want more money.

Work that out.

I guess a lot of the problem today is, people expect to get a lot more out than they put in, they have to realise that isn't the norm.
That is a pyramid scheme.

SirRumpole · 6 January 2015

sptrawler said:
Those who are working want income tax reduced, those who are retired don't want tax increased and those on welfare want more money.

And rich people want their tax dodges continued, businesses want to pay less tax and have more control over their employees and the government yada yada yada ...

Julia · 6 January 2015

sptrawler said:
I guess a lot of the problem today is, people expect to get a lot more out than they put in, they have to realise that isn't the norm.

+1 to your entire post, sptrawler, though on the last above, politicians need to bear some responsibility for the creation of this entitlement philosophy.

Each election there are promises from both sides which give rise to just such expectations. Example from the last election: getting rid of the carbon tax but allowing the compensation to be kept: something for nothing.

We need a leader with a strong enough personality to be honest with the Australian people. I don't think we're bludgers or malcontents by nature, rather need proper explanation of the need to change the prevailing attitude.

Calliope · 6 January 2015

Julia said:
We need a leader with a strong enough personality to be honest with the Australian people. I don't think we're bludgers or malcontents by nature, rather need proper explanation of the need to change the prevailing attitude.

It worked for John Key in the NZ September election. Kiwis are happy with more of same...which includes 15% GST on everything and an $NZ15 co-payment to see a doctor.

Perhaps they need some of the perennial knockers and whingers we have on these pages to sort them out

ABC election analyst Antony Green said it was a terrific result for the National Party.

"It's been a ringing endorsement of the national government and John Key and further decline for the Labour Party who have recorded their lowest vote since 1925," he said.

"Essentially this election the government is being re-elected on the basis of its economic performance. The economy is seen as doing well

Julia · 6 January 2015

That's exactly right. John Key has the personality to take the people with him. It was very evident at the time of the Christchurch earthquake where he struck the right balance between practical common sense and concerned compassion.

Mike Baird achieved the same in his 7.30 interview when the Sydney siege was over.

Seems to be a characteristic a politician either has or has not.

John Howard persuaded us that we needed the GST and if he were still around could probably again persuade us to raise it to 15%. Mr Abbott would have the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of doing likewise.

SirRumpole · 6 January 2015

Julia said:
John Howard persuaded us that we needed the GST and if he were still around could probably again persuade us to raise it to 15%. Mr Abbott would have the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of doing likewise.

Howard almost lost the 1998 election which was campaigned on the GST.

What's more, he only won the 1996 election by saying there will "never, ever be a GST". Another Coalition lie.

Had he not had a massive majority at the time, he would have lost. The GST has always been a vote loser since John Hewson lost the 1993 election campaigning on it. I doubt if any politician now has the guts to go to an election proposing to increase or widen the GST.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-partisan-debate/story-fn53lw5p-1227108855477

Logique · 6 January 2015

John Hewson has a tin ear on policy. Paul Keating knew this.

Make no mistake, the Coalition wants both to expand the GST to everything, and to increase the rate. So much easier than making corporate Australia pay it's fair share of tax.

In retrospect Meg Lees, leader of the Australian Democrats 1997-2001, looks like a visionary. No GST on food she said. And that's how it should remain.

Let's not forget that the later leader of the ADs Sen Stott-Despoja crossed the floor to vote against the initial implementation of the GST. She killed off the ADs in my opinion.

noco · 6 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
Howard almost lost the 1998 election which was campaigned on the GST.

What's more, he only won the 1996 election by saying there will "never, ever be a GST". Another Coalition lie.

Had he not had a massive majority at the time, he would have lost. The GST has always been a vote loser since John Hewson lost the 1993 election campaigning on it. I doubt if any politician now has the guts to go to an election proposing to increase or widen the GST.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...-partisan-debate/story-fn53lw5p-1227108855477

Why do you Fabians try to twist things around to make it look worse than it is?

Firstly, Howard did not say "NEVER EVER", it was stated in such a way there would be no GST during that particular term in office....It is folly to say 'never ever' because he may never have won the next election......I should remind you, he was honest enough to go to the next election with the GST on the agenda and won that election, unlike Mis Gillard and I don't have to repeat what she did.

Secondly, Paul Keating wanted to go to an election with the GST as one of their polices and Hawke stopped him, fearing, of course, a back lash from voters.....No guts ...no glory.......KIM Beasley went to the next election after the GST was introduced and pledged to repeal the GST.....What happened to the Labor policy after that is now history.

Thirdly, it was revealed the Labor Party, during the period 2007/2013 had Treasury set up several models to increase the GST of which Labor tried to conceal.....Obviously someone in Treasury leaked the information......Labor has refused to table these models....I wonder why?

SirRumpole · 6 January 2015

noco said:
Why do you Fabians try to twist things around to make it look worse than it is?

Firstly, Howard did not say "NEVER EVER", it was stated in such a way there would be no GST during that particular term in office...

I don't know if you are being deliberately disingenuous or are having a genuine memory lapse, but here is the evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixn9fFatdcs

noco · 6 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
I don't know if you are being deliberately disingenuous or are having a genuine memory lapse, but here is the evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixn9fFatdcs

So What?

I still say it referred to that particular term in office.

So what do you have to say about him being honest enough to take to the GST to following election and won that election with the GST as his policy...Howard could obviously see merit in doing away with the hidden sales tax and replacing it with the GST....So if your comrades did not like the GST, why didn't they repeal it like Beasley said he would?

Also what do you have to say about Keating and Hawke and lately with Swan's secret intentions on his direction to Treasury...Sneaky bit of stuff from the "World's greatest treasurer"..... He has been caught out.

SirRumpole · 6 January 2015

So What?

I still say it referred to that particular term in office.

There is just no point trying to converse with someone so one sided, so your posts will gain no response from me in the future.

noco · 6 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
There is just no point trying to converse with someone so one sided, so your posts will gain no response from me in the future.

And you are not one sided?

I think you are a poor loser...you can't even respond to my question to you about Hawke, Keating and Swan on how they viewed the GST..

Hawke once said there would be no child in poverty by 1990....But of course would certainly would not want to comment on anything adverse to the Labor Party.

SirRumpole · 6 January 2015

noco said:
Hawke once said there would be no child in poverty by 1990....But of course would certainly would not want to comment on anything adverse to the Labor Party.

I never denied Hawke said that. I hold no brief for him apart from the fact I think he was a good PM for some of the time.

You denied Howard said there would "never, ever be a GST", and when I showed you the evidence you refused to believe it. That's one eyed.

noco · 6 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
I never denied Hawke said that. I hold no brief for him apart from the fact I think he was a good PM for some of the time.

You denied Howard said there would "never, ever be a GST", and when I showed you the evidence you refused to believe it. That's one eyed.

Things can often change in politics when the circumstances arise and that is why Howard decided to run with the GST where every one knew what tax they were paying.....The hidden sales tax was never detailed on an invoice and Governments could increase the sales tax without anyone knowing as was the case when Keating increased the S/T on motor vehicles from 20% to 25%...When the sales tax was dropped, cars were much cheaper with only 10% being added...A can of coke had 22.5% S/T and stationery had an adder of 33.3% S/T.

There was a comment on that U-Tube as herewith.

Mark M
2 years ago
in reply to sherlock747

Saying that it's a lie implies that John Howard was deceiving people when he said that his party had no intention to implement GST. There's nothing to indicate that he in fact did have any intention of implementing GST at that time; it was only later on after he was elected, due to different political circumstances, that GST became appealing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx0IeQQ7WjI

Julia · 6 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
Howard almost lost the 1998 election which was campaigned on the GST.

What's more, he only won the 1996 election by saying there will "never, ever be a GST". Another Coalition lie.

Had he not had a massive majority at the time, he would have lost. The GST has always been a vote loser since John Hewson lost the 1993 election campaigning on it. I doubt if any politician now has the guts to go to an election proposing to increase or widen the GST.

Howard "almost lost" the 1998 election:

He won it, and that's all that matters.

Everything changes in politics. He was foolish to say "never ever," but he had the intestinal fortitude to take it to an election which he won.
That's a damn sight more than Labor did with their carbon tax.

And how is that NZ can get the population on side with their GST which doesn't exempt fresh food etc?
It's much more about leadership and strength of character than it is about the actual few % on the total at the check out.
I'd be happy to pay more if it meant getting Australia back on track financially.

Tisme · 6 January 2015

Just a reminder that come January 19th the Abbott govt's new healthcare rules start to kick in and 10 minute consultation rebates will reduce from $37.05 to $16.95 for everyone, including pensioners.

So make sure you milk the time and to hell with other sick in the waiting room.

Smurf1976 · 7 January 2015

Julia said:
It's much more about leadership and strength of character than it is about the actual few % on the total at the check out.

Australia is seriously lacking in decent leadership at the moment. Certainly that is the case in politics and I think that business leadership quality is declining somewhat too.

I do think that part of it comes down to the broader changes in the economy. A generation ago we were still very much focused on making and doing physical things. Scientists, engineers and so on determined the future and the rest got on and built it.

These days however, it's all about finance and working out how to shuffle the cards and obtain what we want without even knowing how to physically do it. It's hard to imagine such an environment producing quality leadership at any level when there's such a huge focus on the short term and no thought for the future at the very heart of the economy.

Whether we like to admit it or not, slowly but surely we're heading into the ultra low interest rate / outsource and offshore everything / austerity scenario that hasn't really worked anywhere else. I can't see it working too well here either.

SirRumpole · 7 January 2015

And how is that NZ can get the population on side with their GST which doesn't exempt fresh food etc?
It's much more about leadership and strength of character than it is about the actual few % on the total at the check out.

The way to take the population with you on issues such as the GST is to convince them that everyone is paying their fair share.

That's hard to do with a regressive tax like GST, higher income earners will pay a lower percentage of their pay in gst.

So good luck to any politician who proposes an increase on the basis that everyone will contribute equally. It has to be part of a package of tax reform where the tax dodgers are shown to be doing their bit as well as PAYE'ers who find it very hard to dodge tax.

I'd be happy to pay more if it meant getting Australia back on track financially.

Why not just increase income tax rates across the board in that case ?

Tisme · 7 January 2015

Smurf1976 said:
Australia is seriously lacking in decent leadership at the moment. Certainly that is the case in politics and I think that business leadership quality is declining somewhat too.

It's hard to put a finger on what is happening out there, but something has happened to the dynamic in business. There is no doubt Australia has become fixated on the money measure for all things (even tragedies are measured in dollars rather than the social impact these days) and the shineout entrepreneurs seemed to have vanished.

Perhaps we are moving in a conservative cycle. Perhaps we have become used to strong leaders we love or loath and all of a sudden we have had a dud who seems impervious to ridicule or common sense so we have become apathetic and sullen.

Maybe when the next economic report card comes out showing inflation and an economy in reverse someone with some nous will pull out the defibrillator and get some pulse back into the national heartbeat.

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