The Abbott Government

Tink · 9 August 2014

Take Two -

FAMILY FIRST STEPS UP TO DEFEND FREE SPEECH (Media Release)
Saturday 9 August 2014
In response to the Government abandoning plans to reform Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, Family First Senator Bob Day has committed to introduce the free speech protections himself in the Senate.
“The main focus of my first term was going to be solely ‘every family, a job and a house’ and I was very committed to this. However, I simply can not stand by and watch a fundamental principle (as free speech) go undefended,” Senator Day said.
“When the Government announced it was amending Section 18C I was very pleased and fully intended to support the Government.
“Whereas freedom of speech has not been a core Family First policy, it is a principle that transcends all policies. I did not intend to take the running on this but when the Government walked away, someone had to do it,” Senator Day said.
“Someone has to champion the cause of freedom. You can’t allow yourself to be intimidated by any particular group.”
“I agree, no one should be bigoted; no one should be obnoxious; no one should be rude or lewd; no one should be hateful or offensive; but should these things be unlawful? I don’t think so.”
“The Attorney General is far more eloquent and qualified to argue this case than me. However, if he can’t do it, then I guess I will have to.”
“The government has prepared the ground for a debate on free speech and the community is ready for that debate.
I will move ..

SirRumpole · 9 August 2014

“The government has prepared the ground for a debate on free speech and the community is ready for that debate.

;
The debate has been had.

The Senators move will be lost. Labor and the Greens will oppose it, if the Coalition support it they will look even more silly than they have so far.

noco · 9 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
;
The debate has been had.

The Senators move will be lost. Labor and the Greens will oppose it, if the Coalition support it they will look even more silly than they have so far.

Of course the Greens and the Labor Party will oppose it.....they have to protect their Muslim votes.

SirRumpole · 9 August 2014

noco said:
Of course the Greens and the Labor Party will oppose it.....they have to protect their Muslim votes.

The Liberal premier of NSW was televised sucking up to the Muslim vote by taking part in the feast after Ramadin and making soothing noises about "our Muslim friends", blah blah

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

noco said:
Of course the Greens and the Labor Party will oppose it.....they have to protect their Muslim votes.

By that logic the Government was looking to repeal part of the anti discrimination laws to curry favour with their supporter base. I suppose protecting white mainly male votes is all right in your grand scheme of things.

Tink · 10 August 2014

Syd, no one should feel intimidated by anyone, and that is the crux of the whole debate.

Everyone keeps talking about equal but its not very equal if we can't all talk, and that has nothing to do with Bolt.

I said it before, the squealing of the Greens/Labor is getting ridiculous.

You can't even have a conversation without them crying out. Pathetic.

You just have to watch the ABC for five minutes, says it all.

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

Tink said:
Syd, no one should feel intimidated by anyone, and that is the crux of the whole debate.

Everyone keeps talking about equal but its not very equal if we can't all talk, and that has nothing to do with Bolt.

I said it before, the squealing of the Greens/Labor is getting ridiculous.

You can't even have a conversation without them crying out. Pathetic.

You just have to watch the ABC for five minutes, says it all.

I'd argue that it's people self censoring rather than laws that you are refering to. We're in the age of twitter / FB vendedas where som have this desire to see someone turned into a hermit for a silly comment, even if they are probably being more honest making it than when knowing they have an audience. It's like the majority who can't be bothered making a real difference by being constructive within society can now latch on to campaigns to attack anyone, and in the process make themselves feel better. Quid pro quo though, that's the cost of free speech.

That said, I can't really see any of the current laws stopping debate based on verifiable facts about pretty much any topic. It's like those who fear Christmas celebrations will offend other religious groups. I don't know any muslim in Australia, or any of my non Christian friends overseas, who has ever mentioned having an issue about Christmas. In Malaysia one of my friends works as concierge in a big shopping centre and was sending me pictures of his group dressed as santa's elves as they wonder around handing out balloons to children or helping to take pictures with santa. Too many people make up issues when they don't exist.

I do find it funny that you are very pro speech, but very against anyone from making criticisms. You can't have it both ways. If you want to support people having the right to say what they want, then you have to support the right of anyone to criticise them for it, even if their criticisms are at times as equally outlandish as the claims some make.

If free speech is so under threat in this country, how do you explain a Govt minister having the right to make outlandish references to 1950s research and cancer abortion links in a TV interview? Do you believe those criticising him, and they were from the right to the left to the medical professions, should have kept quiet?

SirRumpole · 10 August 2014

It's like those who fear Christmas celebrations will offend other religious groups. I don't know any muslim in Australia, or any of my non Christian friends overseas, who has ever mentioned having an issue about Christmas.

Of course not, Muslims like a good holiday as much as anyone else, Christmas, Easter they will take it.

In fact I think we should observe Islamic holidays as well. How many do they have ? Could we get a week off for Ramadin ?

And so we don't discriminate, Buddhist and Hindu holidays as well. We don't want them to feel left out do we ?

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Of course not, Muslims like a good holiday as much as anyone else, Christmas, Easter they will take it.

In fact I think we should observe Islamic holidays as well. How many do they have ? Could we get a week off for Ramadin ?

And so we don't discriminate, Buddhist and Hindu holidays as well. We don't want them to feel left out do we ?

Careful. You're sounding like those lazy Europeans with all their annual leave and heaps of public holidays.

[video=youtube_share;qGJSI48gkFc]http://youtu.be/qGJSI48gkFc[/video]

Tony could just rebrand Work Choices via a similar advertising campaign

Calliope · 10 August 2014

Government ministers Brandis, Abetz and Hockey outdid themselves in mouthing inanities and stupidities during the week. But their leader Tony Abbott outdid them all in spouting some of the most confected and cowardly nonsense, in trying to excuse his reasons for dumping changes to Section 18(c) of the Racial Discrimination Act.

With a straight face he put forward the view that repealing this section could jeopardise building "Team Australia". You would have to be very naive to think that Australian Muslims could form any part of a national team whose first loyalties would be to their country and not to Islamism. Their long term view of course, is an "Islamist Australia".

The more cynical among us might think that he is trying to buy votes in marginal electorates in Sydney's west. If he is he is he is being badly advised. He should have first talked with Peter Leahy.

Professor Leahy said politicians needed to “develop an honest and frank dialogue” with the Australian public.

“They should advance a narrative that explains that radical Islamism and the terrorism it breeds at home and abroad will remain a significant threat for the long term, it will require considerable effort, the expenditure of blood and treasure and it will, of necessity, restrict our rights and liberties,” he said.

Professor Leahy is the director of Canberra University’s National Security Institute and part of the Abbott government’s team carrying out a comprehensive review of Defence.

He said radical Islamists intent on a new world order were already a threat to the survival of nations in the Middle East and Africa.

If the declared caliphate in Syria and Iraq survived, bases would be established there for attacks on the West and that would embolden “home grown” radicals to attempt attacks in Australia. Military action would be needed to eliminate the threat.

SirRumpole · 10 August 2014

“They should advance a narrative that explains that radical Islamism and the terrorism it breeds at home and abroad will remain a significant threat for the long term, it will require considerable effort, the expenditure of blood and treasure and it will, of necessity, restrict our rights and liberties,” he said.

The question is, what proportion of our Muslim population are radicals prepared to commit jihad and terrorism ?

I don't think anyone knows, but isolating the moderates who could be sources of information against the radicals would not be helping the anti-terrorism cause.

SirRumpole · 10 August 2014

Liberal frontbench mutiny or an IPA hoax ?

Liberal Party members threaten to quit party after Tony Abbott's backdown on changes to race hate laws, says Institute of Public Affairs

Dozens of disillusioned Liberal Party members have approached the Institute of Public Affairs, the free market think tank says, threatening to quit the party because of Prime Minister Tony Abbott's broken promise on the Racial Discrimination Act.

The IPA has emailed its supporters pleading for cash to fund a $38,000 attack ad which will use the Prime Minister's own words against him.

"Tony Abbott has given up but the IPA never will," the email says.

The IPA will quote from Mr Abbott's speech to the IPA in 2012 when he said "freedom of speech is an essential foundation of democracy".

And in a further rebuff of the Prime Minister, the IPA is offering donors a copy of his comments signed by the News Corp columnist Andrew Bolt, who was successfully prosecuted under the current laws.

Mr Abbott phoned Bolt and John Roskam from the IPA to tell them he would be announcing the government would be abandoning its reforms ahead of Tuesday's public announcement.

Mr Roskam from the IPA urged the Coalition not to underestimate the "white hot anger" of the Liberal faithful in response to the "broken promise".

"We have been contacted by many IPA members who are also Liberal Party members who have said they will resign their membership from the Liberal Party over this broken promise from the government," he told Fairfax Media.

"The feeling from many supporters of the Coalition is a combination of deep sadness and disappointment and white hot anger."

He warned the Liberal Party base was becoming increasingly unhappy about the Coalition's decision to break key election commitments.

"This comes on top of Tony Abbott increasing taxes, not cutting spending and now implementing potentially a vast government program of surveillance of every Australian," he said.

"What many people can't understand is that he will compromise on a fundamental freedom but not an expensive, ineffective welfare scheme for the middle class."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...lic-affairs-20140806-3d8i7.html#ixzz39x5XjcQr

Dear oh dear, will we see a midnight sneak attack by Turnbull and his supporters, a la Gillard/Rudd.

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode !

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

Calliope said:
Government ministers Brandis, Abetz and Hockey outdid themselves in mouthing inanities and stupidities during the week. But their leader Tony Abbott outdid them all in spouting some of the most confected and cowardly nonsense, in trying to excuse his reasons for dumping changes to Section 18(c) of the Racial Discrimination Act.

With a straight face he put forward the view that repealing this section could jeopardise building "Team Australia". You would have to be very naive to think that Australian Muslims could form any part of a national team whose first loyalties would be to their country and not to Islamism. Their long term view of course, is an "Islamist Australia".

The more cynical among us might think that he is trying to buy votes in marginal electorates in Sydney's west. If he is he is he is being badly advised. He should have first talked with Peter Leahy.

Well I think if Tony had followed the advice on his need to “develop an honest and frank dialogue” with the Australian public, things would be very different.

Suddenly all those broken promises probably wouldn't have been made Instead we'd have been having an adult discussion on the best way to manage the mining CAPEX cliff, a budget designed to improve the competitiveness of the country instead of the slash and burn against the poor.

But Tony wasn't frank or honest with the public for many years. This is the main reason he's in so much trouble now.

noco · 10 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Of course not, Muslims like a good holiday as much as anyone else, Christmas, Easter they will take it.

In fact I think we should observe Islamic holidays as well. How many do they have ? Could we get a week off for Ramadin ?

And so we don't discriminate, Buddhist and Hindu holidays as well. We don't want them to feel left out do we ?

The Muslims have 5 X 10minute holidays every day.....50 minutes by 5 = 250 minutes per week ..... 250 minutes by 52 = 13,000 minutes per year for each Muslim (9.027 days a year)...that is nearly 2 working weeks...Sorry there is no time off for Ramadin.

Now multiply that by the number of "working Muslims" in Australia and you will be able to calculate just how many man hours are wasted each year on their knees and for what benefit? They would become unemployable under those circumstances...is it any wonder unemployment has risen to 6.4% if the unemployed Muslims are taken into account.

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

noco said:
The Muslims have 5 X 10minute holidays every day.....50 minutes by 5 = 250 minutes per week ..... 250 minutes by 52 = 13,000 minutes per year for each Muslim (9.027 days a year)...that is nearly 2 working weeks...Sorry there is no time off for Ramadin.

Now multiply that by the number of "working Muslims" in Australia and you will be able to calculate just how many man hours are wasted each year on their knees and for what benefit? They would become unemployable under those circumstances...is it any wonder unemployment has risen to 6.4% if the unemployed Muslims are taken into account.

Wow. Are immigrants not responsible for any ill in this country?

The majority of Muslims are similar to the holiday Christians. They attend major religious festivals, but are otherwise reasonably secular in their lives.

I suppose you would as against Christians praying too?

Julia · 10 August 2014

sydboy007 said:
Well I think if Tony had followed the advice on his need to “develop an honest and frank dialogue” with the Australian public, things would be very different.

Suddenly all those broken promises probably wouldn't have been made Instead we'd have been having an adult discussion on the best way to manage the mining CAPEX cliff, a budget designed to improve the competitiveness of the country instead of the slash and burn against the poor.

But Tony wasn't frank or honest with the public for many years. This is the main reason he's in so much trouble now.

I agree, syd. A few days ago I heard a reference in a current affairs program to Barack Obama's weekly address to the nation. If Mr Abbott had the demeanour to do similarly, perhaps once a month, being honest about the realities Australia needs to face and asking the people to support him and his government, surely there would be a whole different 'feel' to the collective view of the government?

But for as long as I've observed Mr Abbott, he has never demonstrated the sort of personality that people easily warm to. It's said that privately he's a good bloke. That may be true, but it just doesn't come across generally.

I was very relieved when the government changed and hoped for a coherent cabinet, sensible undertakings, and a readiness to listen to good advice. This just hasn't happened. Instead of getting better, the government seems to going from trips and stumbles to major tumbles. This last week has been just shocking, and all of it absolutely avoidable.

I've never agreed with the suggestions that Malcolm Turnbull should replace Tony Abbott, the memory of his disastrous brief stint as leader re the Grech affair still strong in my mind. But, Mr Turnbull seems to have learned from that, has been disciplined in presenting himself as a team player despite his team, at least in the last few days, treating him poorly. If they'd left it to him to announce the proposed data retention plan, I doubt there would have been the outcry that Abbott etc have caused.

It would be interesting if members could put up a list of government people they'd choose for cabinet as alternatives to those actually in place.

For a start, I'd be shuffling Eric Abetz and George Brandis off to the back bench where they can do less damage. And Joe Hockey needs to stop whining about how unfair it is that the public are not supporting his budget. Instead, Mr Hockey, listen to what they're saying and be prepared to make some adjustments. The electorate is not stupid.

SirRumpole · 10 August 2014

If Mr Abbott had the demeanour to do similarly, perhaps once a month, being honest about the realities Australia needs to face and asking the people to support him and his government, surely there would be a whole different 'feel' to the collective view of the government?

That applies to both sides and has to happen BEFORE an election, not after.

The people can't be lied to, or to have promises broken on the vague premise of "trust us we are here to help you", coherent policies have to be laid down and a debate entered into before elections so we don't end up with a sham government for three years at least.

As for Brandis, would you believe he is a QC ? Anyone so bad at explaining things as he is should never speak for anyone in court.

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

Julia said:
I agree, syd. A few days ago I heard a reference in a current affairs program to Barack Obama's weekly address to the nation. If Mr Abbott had the demeanour to do similarly, perhaps once a month, being honest about the realities Australia needs to face and asking the people to support him and his government, surely there would be a whole different 'feel' to the collective view of the government?

It would be interesting if members could put up a list of government people they'd choose for cabinet as alternatives to those actually in place.

Ijust don't understand the major parties. Can't they read the continual flow of statistics that show we've been saving around 10% of income since the GFC, a far cry to the negative rates it hit a decade ago. WE KNOW the storm is brewing. WE KNOW tough times are coming, yet the political leaders have continued to over promise and under deliver.

No more magic puddings of lower taxes AND increased spending. No more fantasy land economic projections. That was the undoing of the Rudd / Gillard Govts, and from what I can see in the current budget is likely to be the undoing of Abbott too. Look to the WA Govt and their courageous forecasts on iron ore prices that have as much chance of occurring as me winning lotto - no actually there's more chance of me winning lotto.

I had a look at the Liberal lineup. Can't say I know much of most of them. When the likes of Andrews, Abetz, Ciobo, Cormann, Fieravanti-Wells, nash, Pyne, oligopoly Robb, and Ryan are some of your best and brightest the alarm bells should be clanging. No idea if there is any hidden talent on the back bench, but if there is they'd better move them up to the A league soon because the current team seems as brittle as the English cricket team of a decade ago. They seem to be bowling themselves out on the flattest slowest pitch there is.

Sadly Labor is not offering any believable alternatives. So far they've not really offered an alternative at all. Don't they realise they're setting themselves up for Abbott's fate by opposing even decent policy. FFS support fuel indexation, provide a balanced GP visit fee schedule, look at uni funding and see if maybe we'd be better off with more going to TAFE to replace the growing hordes of boomer retirees who seem to being replaced by 457 visa workers. maybe talk about what tax expenditures could be reduce or removed to stop the tax revenue bleed.

Bring immigration onto the table and think about reducing it while the economy is slowed and we're unable to afford the infrastructure we need to cope.

I keep wishing a 3rd force in Australian politics would occur. Why can't we have an Aussie version of Ralph Nader?

sydboy007 · 10 August 2014

It's reminiscent of the last week

[video=youtube_share;nSSt9KRfx9k]http://youtu.be/nSSt9KRfx9k[/video]

wayneL · 10 August 2014

sydboy007 said:
I keep wishing a 3rd force in Australian politics would occur.

Yes indeed. Problem is, if this third party told the plebs the truth, warts 'n all, with a proper prescription to drag our country back on the right path, how many votes do you think they'll get?

The Abbott Government

Tink

SirRumpole

noco

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sydboy007

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sydboy007

Calliope

SirRumpole

SirRumpole

sydboy007

noco

sydboy007

Julia

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SirRumpole

sydboy007

sydboy007

wayneL

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